ACHP 422 Code Red and "That's A Wrap!
Episode Summary
Mike Palmer, Michael Stepankevich and Boots open episode 422 with a run of tech news before diving into the day's cigar headlines. YouTube has launched its year-end "Recap," a Spotify Wrapped-style breakdown of viewing habits complete with assigned personality types, and the crew asks listeners to let them know if the podcast shows up in their top channels. From there they dig into reports that OpenAI CEO Sam Altman issued an internal "code red" memo, pausing side projects like shopping, AI agents and Pulse to defend ChatGPT's lead as Google Gemini (boosted by the Nano Banana image generator) surges from 450 million to 650 million monthly users and Anthropic scales to 300,000 enterprise customers. That sparks a long, honest conversation about whether AI is a dot-com-style bubble given OpenAI's $1.4 trillion in infrastructure commitments, plus personal takes on using ChatGPT vs. Grok, AI as a Google replacement, and even using an AI "therapist" after a family loss.
The guys also follow up on Joshua Habersky's "Guardian of Cigars" honor (awarded by a London restaurant/cigar lounge) and revisit their exclusive standalone appearance on a Powstanie-related media show, with some candid commentary on why cigar media personalities avoid naming names or being confrontational about industry problems.
Cigar news starts with the Sisters of the Leaf (SOTL) global movement certifying Burn by Rocky Patel Atlanta as a women-friendly cigar destination at an event organized by Robin Blue, with SOTL FIFA watch parties planned across certified venues in 2026. Next is the second Aoki Reserve Connecticut vitola from Agonorsa Leaf — an Ecuadorian Connecticut-seed wrapper over Nicaraguan tobaccos, now in a 5 1/2 x 50 Robusto Extra at $17 per cigar, limited to 200 boxes and sold only at Aoki Group restaurants. Crowned Heads ships Thunder Kiss, a $6.75 bundled 5 x 54 Robusto Extra with an Ecuadorian Habano wrapper over Nicaraguan binder and filler made at Tabacalera Pichardo, named after the White Zombie song "Thunder Kiss '65" and positioned as the brand's budget-friendly regular production line. JM Tobacco also announced Robusto (5 x 50, $9) and Churchill (7 x 50, $11) additions to the Espanola Corojo line, made at Blackbird Cigar Company in the Dominican Republic and shipping February 1, 2026.
The show closes with "What's the Score?", guessing Patrick Lagreid's halfwheel review of the Illusione The Group of Five RB — a 5 x 52 Nicaraguan Robusto from Agonorsa priced at $16 — where excellent creamy, hazelnut, pepper and peppermint-retrohale flavor was undermined by serious combustion and draw issues, landing at 85. Plus an unconfirmed rumor about Davidoff layoffs and a reminder about the Eric Espinosa and Richie Otero event at Cigar Hustler.
In This Episode
- 01YouTube Recap and Year-End StatsYouTube rolls out its Spotify Wrapped-style year-end viewing recap with top channels, artists and assigned personality types.
- 02OpenAI's Code RedSam Altman's internal memo pauses side projects to focus on ChatGPT as Google Gemini and Anthropic gain ground.
- 03Is There an AI Bubble?The hosts debate whether AI mirrors the dot-com boom given OpenAI's $1.4 trillion in commitments, and share how they actually use ChatGPT and Grok.
- 04Cigar Media Follow-UpsJoshua Habersky's 'Guardian of Cigars' award from a London venue and why cigar media personalities avoid naming names.
- 05Sisters of the Leaf Certifies Burn AtlantaSOTL recognizes Burn by Rocky Patel Atlanta as a certified women-friendly cigar destination, with FIFA watch parties planned for 2026.
- 06Agonorsa Leaf x Aoki Group CigarA second vitola of the Aoki Reserve Connecticut arrives — 5 1/2 x 50 Robusto Extra, $17, limited to 200 boxes for Aoki restaurants.
- 07Crowned Heads Thunder KissA $6.75 bundled Ecuadorian Habano Robusto Extra named for the White Zombie song, made at Tabacalera Pichardo as a budget regular production.
- 08Espanola Corojo Robusto and ChurchillJM Tobacco adds two sizes to the Espanola Corojo line, shipping February 1, 2026 from Blackbird Cigar Company.
- 09What's the Score: Illusione The Group of Five RBGreat flavor sabotaged by burn and draw problems earns this $16 Nicaraguan Robusto an 85.
Brands & Cigars Discussed
Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.
Transcript
Welcome to a Cigar Hustler Podcast, five days a week, I'm your host, this is Mike Palmer, this is episode 422. You look kinda frazzled. You look like, uh, do you remember the original Batman? Yes.
When, um, when the Joker, he put stuff in all the cosmetic stuff? Oh. Is my hair all messy? And like no one could do anything?
Everybody looked ugly. And everybody was stressed out? I remember that one. I feel like that's you today.
Oh. You look a little stressed. I'll be fine. Oh, we have some updates on some stuff too.
Don't let me forget, 'cause I didn't have time to put it in here. Okay. On today's how, on today's show. How?
It says how. On today's show, YouTube is wrapping up the year in videos. There's a Code Red over at ChatGBTHQ. And then in Cigar News, the Sisters of the Leaf certify burn.
Ooh. Crown Heads is thunder kissing everybody they can find. Oh. Espanola is coming in February.
Espanola? That's the name of the cigar. It's not Espinosa, it's his sister. Oh, it's his sister, Espinola?
Espinola. Okay. She's coming in February. And Agronorsa is A-O-K-E.
I'm not sure. Sounds like a lot of fun and exciting things. Pronounce that name. And over there on my left is Michael Stepankevich.
Michael, what? How? It's a B-how. How can you get some of that CH Pod swag?
com and check out our latest swag and apparel. So, Harold, we have a couple of the black-out Powstanie Warbear hats, as well as pre-orders on the new Pressure is a Privilege shirt. I am wearing this lovely BDP today. If you buy one shirt, you get the second one 40% off.
If you spend $100 or more, you get free shipping. com and like and subscribe to wherever you're watching or viewing our show. Excellent job, Michael. Thank you very much.
You can't get the BDP tank tops anymore, though, right? No, the BDP tank tops were a Memorial Day special, yeah. Memorial Day, yes. All right, oh, we also have a What's the Score later in the show.
You want to do the updates now so I don't forget? I like having a show every day because that way we can, you know, it's not like been a week since we talked about it. Yeah, we can do the updates. Alright, so Joshua Habersky got the Guardian of Tobacco, or Guardian of Cigars, or whatever it was he got yesterday.
Correct. So I went and checked. Okay. A restaurant did give it to him.
It was a restaurant. A restaurant-slash-cigar place in London. Ho-ho. Ho-ho.
Yes. You mean to tell me that here in London, you're gonna get this tobacco award as a Guardian of Tobacco? I think it's Guardian of Cigars. Oh, you said Garden Tobacco.
I'm not sure exactly which one it is. Cigar seems to make more sense. Detail shmeetails. Right, exactly.
So, Michael, on behalf of the local McDonald's, we would like to make you Guardian of Cigars for Deltona. Oh, thank you. You're very welcome. Do I get a Happy Meal with that?
No, just a little toys. A little toy? A little toy, it's coming. Don't worry, it'll be here.
I'm looking forward to this. It's solid gold. Ooh, a solid gold? Trophy.
Are you picking up cigars? Yes. Okay. I just got smoke in my eye.
There was something else we were out there. I don't remember. Booth, you're kind of quiet over there. How are you doing?
I'm doing very good. Bing bong. Thank you for having me on show. I like show.
Good job. Good job there. All right. Now let's get into some trending news.
My cigar is very dry. It's from the photo samples that I used to keep, but she is exploding. Now, let's get into some trendy news. YouTube is wrapping your year-end videos.
The platform is rolling out year-end stats about your viewing habits. Hmm. So, all that adult stuff you watch, Michael. All that adult stuff?
That you watch. Okay. We're going to give it back to you. All right.
I got to tell you, I probably have one of the most boring YouTube feeds ever. It's a, it's a montage of things that are like, uh, when you send to somebody, It's like, fuck you, like, hey, just in case anybody didn't tell you today, fuck you, or something that we- Like a video, how to tell somebody to fuck you? Yeah, no, they're like little shorts. Oh.
Um, or, or like the, uh, like I always do the Elmo, the Elmo talking, telling you that you're a piece of shit, like those, that's the things that I watch in the shorts. Wow. Yeah. Uh, I watch, uh, the fat electrician with all the, the military history stuff, I find that interesting.
Oh, you watch actual shows? I watch actual shows, yeah. Got it. Yeah.
I don't. And music videos, I like to watch music videos. Oh, really? I saw a good one by Adele, I'm kinda hooked on Adele lately.
Really? Yeah. Maybe Brittany and I will go to a concert. I'll get you an Adele shirt.
Ooh. Yeah. I like skinny Adele though. A BDP dressed as Adele.
Oh, I would wear that. That would be funny. That would be fantastic. That would be funny.
Alright, have baby shark dance on a loop to entertain your child while you work from home. Those viewing habits will inform your recap. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. YouTube's Answer to Spotify Wrapped Recap Debut yesterday in North America and will roll out globally this week.
It includes music but doesn't replace YouTube's music recap. Oh, there's a special one for that. Okay. And it mirrors a lot of what Spotify does with their wrapped.
You'll see the top channels, artists, and the evolution of your viewing habits. Ooh, if we show up as one of your top channels, please comment on the thing and let us know. We would like to know this. We would like to know.
You'll also be assigned a personality type, intro, oh, I feel sorry for the people that wear the top thing on their thoughts. Why? They're gonna get personality typed. What kind of personality type do you think a viewer that watches the show has?
Old, smokes, that's probably about it. Our demographic's actually younger than you think. Is it really? Yeah.
25 to 34? It's 25 to 45, 'cause you have a lot in both of those categories. Oh, nice. Yeah.
Those made-up personas reflect your content preference and include The Sunshiner, Good Vibes, The Trailblazer, Unique Taste, and The Connector, Not Explained, but probably someone who watches Mostly Connect 4 videos. Ooh, whoever wrote this should stay away from comedy. Recap arrived the same day as Apple Music Replay and Amazon's Music delivered in what seems to be an attempt to get ahead of Spotify Wrapped, which came out on December 4th last year and will likely dominate your social media feeds soon. YouTube listened to big names on the platform like Marquis Brownlee?
Marquez Brownlee? Any idea who that is? No idea. Hank Green?
Nope. Have long asked for a year-end video recap. If only they would have also clamored for Taco Bell wrapped so that we can see how many burritos you've eaten in 2025. Ooh, this guy should stay away from comedy.
Where did you pull this from? This is terrible. This particular story? Yeah.
From that website that sends me stuff every day. Okay. The idea of the story was good, but the actual story story, not so much. Not so good.
All right. Altman orders OpenAI Code Red as rivals grow, just as everyone else begins to slow down. Is this like the Mountain Dew? No.
Altman is the guy that owns ChatGPT. Okay. Everybody else is sort of winding down for the end of the year. Mm-hmm.
He's telling his guys, "It's a code red. We gotta get working. " That's pretty smart. Yeah, it is.
That's probably why he's a big name in the industry. Well, we didn't know who he was until the article. Well, we don't know this industry. Good point.
Just as everyone else begins to slow down and use their second monitors to play the 24/7 burning Yulong Open AI CEO, Sam Altman, reportedly sent out an internal memo this week, telling staff that the company was in a code red Red. There'll be no days off. Effort and would need to focus all its energy on improving ChatGPT, even if it meant pausing their other projects. Stop their other projects.
Right now. Stop. Stop the presses. Yes.
The memo landed as rivals like Google, Gemini, increasingly put pressure on ChatGPT to stay atop the Chatbot market. Altman's directive and subsequent social media posts from other OpenAI execs says that staff has been asked to prioritize He has been asked to prioritize expanding the audience for the tool, which currently boasts 800 million weekly users, as well as making it feel more personal and intuitive. I mean, there's definitely some room for improvement when it comes to ChatGPT. You use Gronk, right?
That's the one you prefer? Yeah, I gravitate more towards Grok for imagery, and like I ask questions, normally when I ask questions, I ask questions on Grok. But, I mean, that one's flawed, too. They're all flawed.
Oh, they're all flawed to a point. Yeah. Yeah. I use ChetGPT almost exclusively now.
Do you? Yes. " That's ridiculous. Right.
" And by the way, that information you asked me about that I told you I couldn't get? It's usually drawing a photo like, "I can't do that. " Or that's not, we're not permitted. And then later he'll go, if you word it as lookalike Bruce Willis, I can do it for you.
If you just said guy kind of looks like Bruce Willis. Right. That's all you got to do. Makes sense.
But like sometimes the one on the phone won't do something that the one on the computer will do right away and vice versa. Right. Even though it's the same account. Interesting.
Very weird. Very weird. Altman said that other projects like shopping, AI agents, and its personal assistant, Pulse, would take a backseat for the time being. Oh, what's Pulse?
I have no idea. Oh, do you still have Alexa in your house? No, we got rid of that a long time ago. Why?
Just curious. I don't know. It just wasn't, meh. I didn't see the purpose.
It seemed, after a while, it was just kind of gimmicky for me, and then we don't utilize it at all. We primarily just use it for music and stuff throughout the house. But last night, I was cooking in the kitchen, and Adrienne had a thing she had to go to. Yeah.
And she texted me she was on her way home. So, just on a whim, I said, Alexa, call Adrian on her cell. It did. Right.
I didn't know it could do that. What did it call from? Your cell phone? No, it called from Alexa, as far as I know.
What did it say when you called? I didn't ask her, but she answered the phone right away. So they knew that it was you? Apparently.
So it had to be linked to your phone somehow. Hmm. Kind of weird. Oh.
Well, no, I don't do that. For music in the house, we use Sonos. Well, I don't have Sonos. I like the Sonos.
I have an alarm set that, here's what's crazy, is I've set an alarm for these kids of mine, and it blasts music throughout the entire house. And now, they've become accustomed to this music, and they don't move. You gotta change the music? I change the music all the time.
Make it a code red sound, like... There's one in particular that I really like to use, it's called the purge. Oh, the purge sound? Yeah, and they still don't move.
Really? Yeah. Wow. Can you record something and make them wake up?
It's all from, like, the Spotify playlist. So you couldn't make your own? No, I don't think so. It could be like you yelling to get up.
No, but you know what? " Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. I need to get back to that. Yeah, that's a nice thing for children to start their day with.
It is for my children. Get the fuck out of bed. OpenAI will also start hosting a special daily call for employees working on ChatGPT. Hello?
Ring? Okay, wait, you answered the phone. Oh, are they, are they joining STG for the meetings? Is that what's going on?
Yeah. Are their meetings all on phones? Yeah, we're doing meetings. They're not in person?
It's all zooms. Oh. Zoom, zoom, zoom. I figured he was like at the head office.
No, but go ahead. I'll play this game with you. Go ahead. Ring, ring, ring.
All right. Hold on. Who am I again? Okay.
All right. Ring, ring, ring. I can't. Ring, ring, ring.
Hello? Get back. Fuck the work. Yes, sir.
I'm very sorry, sir. I'm working on the AI. I can't have your time for this. I got to call somebody else.
Okay, I gotta go, thank you, bye. She said Mr. Holtman. Mr.
Holtman. No way, they're getting away with keeping their cameras off. The latest release of Google's Gemini Chatbot lapped OpenAI's ChatGPT in a number of industry benchmark tests. And users are taking notice.
Google said its Gemini app has jumped from 450 million monthly users in July to 650 million. I didn't like that when it came out. I haven't tried it again. Maybe it's better now, I don't know.
Well, you would hope that the space, that they improve, you know what I mean? Yeah, they always get better. Yeah. I mean, Chad GPT is always telling me we're going to upgrade you or update you or something.
Right, today's the day. Today's the day. Thanks largely to the first release of AI image generator, Nano Banana. Oh, I saw something about that.
Yes. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm sorry. Nano Banana.
Was that the end of the story? No. Please continue. Oh, I saw the other day.
I saw the other day, like I saw an AI image of a banana, it said nano banana on it. Oh, I think I saw that too, but I didn't read it, I didn't understand what it was. Anthropic is also gaining traction, jumping for just under a thousand Enterprises customers two years ago to 300,000 in September. The Upstart recently acquired AI developer Burn to Beef up its coding automation tool.
Big picture, while Gemini has the added bonus of existing in one of the most lucrative online ecosystems, OpenAI is burning through investment dollars. The company is committed to, ooh, how much do you think? I would say four billion dollars. 4 trillion.
That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. And infrastructure deals over the next eight years and is yet to be profitable. Okay, so that kind of brings me to this question: Do you think that there is an AI bubble that's starting to happen?
Yes. You do? No, sorry, I thought you were going to say something else. Well, that was going to be the first question.
And then the second question is: When do you think it would pop if you thought that there was a bubble? Okay, what do you mean by AI bubble? Like there's going to be too many? Like tons of money, like back in 2000.
Oh, domains. Oh, you know, the tech industry surged, right? And then everybody realized that it wasn't working on the scale that it was. It popped, everything tanked, and then eventually it went back, you know, it started to work again, right?
So it's like, I feel like that maybe that's what's going on here with AI, right? I just want to get your thoughts on it. Um, I think it's here to stay. I don't think it's gonna go away.
Well, domains never went away, but there was a tech wave. Right, but it became less popular though. What are you talking about? Well, as far as like, you know, I'm going to grab Coke.
I'm going to grab Coke is it. I'm going to grab Coke is it with fun. I'm going to grab, you know, people were doing that. Or are they still doing that?
No, I mean, the tech industry, what happened was people were building these businesses and then, but, and they said, this is how it's going to work and we're going to do all these things in the, but then they would never do those things. And boom, it would, everything would kind of cave. Right. You think people are going to be expecting something from AI that it doesn't do?
It's all the, it's going to go so far. And it's like, yeah, this is the best we got guys. Well, I think that there's already several platforms of AI, and I think that not all, you know, like you don't like to use the Gemini, right? I don't think Google is the one that would necessarily implode, but maybe.
4 trillion. Right. So that's a lot of bone. That's meant a lot of money.
Yeah. So just imagine how much money something like ChatGPT or Gemini or. Yeah. 4 trillion?
Yeah, how long does it have to be around? Right. I don't know, who knows? So you don't believe it, but you don't think it's a bubble?
I don't think it's a bubble. I think it's going to be a bubble. You think so? I think AI is here to stay, but I think some of them are going to go away.
Well, I do think some of the smaller ones will drop off. They won't be able to keep up. I think some of the bigger ones are going to fall off, too. Oh, do you?
Yeah. I think eventually they'll get to be like a little freestanding person. Like the light there will be. 4 trillion, you go back for more?
Hey, we're going to need another trillion. We're going to need another gazillion here, guys. I don't want to tell you. The sex doll just doesn't work right.
That's my point. That's my point. Like at some point, they've got to say this isn't working and bubble. You probably are.
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, how much money can they throw into this? I mean, that's higher than the national debt, isn't it? I mean, a lot of people use AI just for like, it's like the new Google.
Right. They just ask dumb questions to it. Oh, I do all the time. Yeah, exactly.
But, you know, how much, that's not really lucrative. That's not, doesn't make you a ton of money, unless you're subscribed to it or something, I guess. I use it for some of our show prep and social media stuff. Do you pay for a subscription with chat?
Yeah, I do. You do. Okay, so then at least at that, well, there's some. I had to, I was getting cut off.
And how much do you pay a month? 99. 4 trillion. The AI will tell me I'll stay alive.
Yeah. Oh, yeah, there you go. Very smart. Smart.
I haven't asked that question. Yeah. Hey, how do I live? How do I live?
Okay. I, when my dad passed, I was using a, like a psychiatry type thing one. Oh, really? Yeah.
Did you really? You never said anything like that before? Uh, not really something you talk about. Was it like, uh, like the Sopranos one?
What was the Soprano? I mean, like it was a- Like I said, you had a shrink. You had an AI shrink. Oh, a shrink, yeah.
It wasn't really a shrink. What's the non-doctor one? The, um, non-actual doctor? Um, so- Not a psychiatrist?
It was- A therapist. Like a therapist? Therapist. The rapist for a thousand hours.
It shows you your feeling and it, you know, sorts out your feelings and then tells you, you know, breathe or is it completely normal or, you know, something like that. Did you find it beneficial for you? I did for the, for a little bit of time I did. Yeah, I knew it was a long time, but, yeah, I did.
Did you fall in love with the rapist? No. No, I did not. I love you, therapist.
But I used to ask you questions like, you know, is this, are you a real person or is this really a, because, you know, it could have been, they could have been faking, 'cause that was early, that was four years ago. Right. So, they never said they were a real person, so, I don't know. Like, got this guy.
No, I am a robot. Right, no, I am artificial intelligence. I have no feelings at all. I would ask questions about advancements and stuff and they would answer them.
Yeah. Like, you know, they're working on this, this, and this. That's very interesting. I think a lot of people actually use ChatGPT, ChatGPT?
ChatGPT? ChatGPT for therapy. I imagine so. It's very common, but now there's probably, like you said, people are falling in love with them and stuff, which is just weird.
It's not even, you know, there's, what are you just holding your phone? " Well, that's kind of the scary part, man. Like, you ever see Ex Machina? What?
So, it was a story about AI, where they, this robot was kind of created, and the robot convinced this person that it was in love with him, and it made the person do, Is this a movie? Yeah. But it's what's crazy is how close it is to kind of reality, you know? Well, I've seen a lot of those type movies where they have a robot in the house and it, you know, does things or tries to break up the couple or, you know, tells the kid that the parents are bad or...
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. It was a one that was a horror movie where the AI thing sort of took over the house. They had a completely automated house and the thing locked them in the house, turned the heat on.
Made it hot, made them sweat? Yeah, when they went to go do something, it talked to other AI things and got stuff done bad or right or something. I never saw it, it was theaters, but I saw the trailers. Oh, so you don't know the movie?
I can't remember the name of it, but somebody famous was in it. I would hope so if it was a movie. Well, all movies don't have famous people. That's true.
Those are the movies you watch on Sunday afternoon when you can't find anything else. Well I mean a lot of the Marvel people weren't famous until they became characters in Marvel. True. Do you know Martin Scorsese doesn't like any of the Marvel movies?
He doesn't consider them films? Yeah, they're box office hits, he's an Oscar guy. Yeah, he considers them box office, crap, what was the term he used? Box office, like playgrounds, but it was a different, so what's Universal considered?
Universal Studios? Yeah, like Universal, Disney, C-Roll, those are all called something. Entertainment? All right, never mind.
Mrs. Potato Head, I have no idea what you're trying to say to me. Right. Theme parks.
Oh, the theme parks. Theme parks. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I mean, one's about, you know, one's art to some degree, one's kind of establishing revenue.
I don't, for me personally, I don't care if it's a box office hit or if it's an Oscar, I just need to have feeling. I need to feel something. Yeah, I just want to enjoy the movie. Yeah.
Have some type of attachment to it. - Yeah, exactly. - All right. - Okay, is that your only update was the Joshua Haberski?
- I can't remember what the other one was, but yeah, it was a Joshua Haberski thing. - Okay. - What else did we talk about? - How about that cigar?
- Oh yeah, how about that cigar? I did have something about that. So, we talked yesterday, or was it yesterday? - Yep.
- Okay, how we were not included in the media show. - Yeah. - Okay, but we are the only, We are the only media people that got their own show. What do you mean?
They had us on just us. Oh, for Powstanie Cigars. Yeah, well, it was everything we do type thing. Yeah, no.
They're not having Coop back on by himself, they're not having Eric, and I don't know how Matt Tai was saying his name, but it wasn't Gertrism. Yes, oh yeah. He was saying it with something, so that must have worked that out before. Obviously it was the right way, yeah.
Must have worked that out before the show. Right. Yeah. No, I mean, I understand why How about that guy didn't have us on, because we were just on.
Sure. Yeah, we understand. I just don't understand how you don't specifically name, how some of these guys didn't specifically name names of the people that they think are a problem in the industry. Well, that's the problem with most of those guys anyway.
They're non-confrontational. Yeah, I guess you got a point there. I mean, if they won't talk about a bad story about somebody because they don't want it to get back that they said something bad by, for example, Crownhead, I said that because he was just here. They're not going to say anything bad about Crown Heads because they don't want Crown Heads to be mad at them, so they're not going to say anything mad about Joe's Pipe & Tobacco Show because they don't want Joe's Pipe & Tobacco Show to be mad at them, which, it's completely stupid because all those guys, I mean, obviously I made up Joe's Tobacco & Pipe Show, but all those guys are further along in the media area than Joe's Tobacco & Whatever Show.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild to me. You can have perspective about people and it might be negative or positive or whatever, but as long as it's honest and genuine and you're not trying to hurt somebody, I don't see the... Right, as long as it's your perspective, you're entitled to your own opinion. Right.
It's odd. Okay. But there are things that were said where maybe it was us they were talking about, maybe it wasn't. I don't think so.
Probably not. But how do you have that? What's your favorite type of show without us coming up in conversation? I honestly don't know.
I don't know. I mean, if we were to have a show talking about cigar media, all those guys, except, well, even Fred, 'cause now Fred's got a video show, too. It's not a cigar show, though. Yeah, we would, yeah.
I mean, we would mention all of them. For sure. We mention all of them on a weekly basis. Yeah.
For the most part. Alright, moving on to Cigar News, the Sisters of the Leaf certified Burned by Rocky Patel as a… Yes? I'm letting you guess what they certified it as. Sister… what?
Sisters of the Leaf, S-O-T-L. Yeah. Certifies Burned by Rocky Patel as something. The Guardian of Tobacco.
No, that's the restaurant in London that does that. Damn. As a woman-friendly cigar venue. Cigar Venue.
Oh, makes sense, makes sense. December 1st, 2025, press release, cigar industry news events, the Sisters SOTL Global Movement proudly celebrated an evening in Atlanta where burned by Rocky Patel, Atlanta was officially recognized as a certified women-friendly cigar destination. I don't know if it says in here or not, but is it just specifically that one? It's just the one.
But there's more than one. No, that's the only safe one. The event hosted and organized by Robin Blue, CCST, MBA, what's a CCST? I know what an MBA is.
That's above my pay grade, pal, I have no idea. Certified Consumer Service, CCST, why don't you look that up like you're reading. Mark, an important moment for women, or Boots, why don't you look that up, Boots? Uh, okay, I look up, I type the letters.
Oh, you should ask me how you spell it. That would've been funny. How do you spell CCST? Important moment for women in cigar culture is served as a preview of what's coming next, a celebration brought together, leaders, passionados, I want to be, I want to be a passionado.
It could mean a bunch of things, buddy. Cisco Certified Support Technician, Certified Control System Technician, California Council on Science and Technology, College of Craniosacral Therapy. I don't think that's it. She's got an MBA.
Masters of Business Association. Okay. All right, never mind. CCST.
Do you want to be a passionato? Do I want to be a passionato? That's the thing. I brought together leaders, passionatos, partners, and supporters.
Okay. Let's be passionatos. I don't want to be passionate. Why not?
I have enough passion. You want to be passionate about the industry? I am passionate about the industry. I'm not really passionate about the industry.
All right, supported by the hospitality of Luann Steffens, the night, oh, she's very nice, she's, that's where my hospitality is, I wonder if it's a person or an organization, we're gonna get out of trouble with this one, I think. Oh boy. The night showcased what is truly meant to create a sophisticated and empowering environment for women in the cigar world. Special thanks were extended to Bespokture, Omar Kinnebrew for his attendance.
All he did was show up. That's a big deal. To show up? Yeah.
In a room full of women? Of course. I'll go. No, you won't.
Sure, I will. You're not allowed. I can go. You can't go.
I'm not going. I can go. For his attendance, contribution, and giveaways. Oh, okay, he gave stuff away.
I'm not giving anything away. General Cigar Leo Brown is given hand to Neil. Who's Leo Brown? Is that the guy that fired Jack?
Yep, that's him. Oh. He was there. The event was the first spark of a large international series.
In 2026, Sisters of the Leaf global movement will launch its FIFA watch parties. Do you think that means soccer? That's correct. Across women-friendly cigar destinations around the world.
Well, that's good. I mean, it sounds like a good thing. Sounds like they're doing something positive. When do they like soccer?
That's correct. Well, that's good. I mean, it sounds like a good thing. Sounds like they're doing something positive.
When do they like soccer? I have no idea why they like soccer. And they're organizing more soccer-watching parties. Yeah.
That's good. At least they're doing something, you know? Would you say we're a friendly sister of the leaf upstairs? Yeah.
Yeah. I think that... We have women that show up all the time. Yeah.
I don't think that... If you come here, you can watch FIFA, too. Can you? We have FIFA?
Well, we have YouTube sports. I guess we have FIFA. We would like you ladies to come here and certify us as a woman-friendly cigar destination. Okay.
Please. See, Greg. It's two G, well, three G's technically. G-R-E-G-G.
How about that, Boots? You want the women to come here? Uh, yeah. Yeah, I like women.
Uh, good. All right, we'll make sure he doesn't get out. We'll make sure he doesn't get out. Thank you.
Agonorsa Leaf, Aoki Group, collaborate again. Okay. Aoki. You know what Aoki is?
Is that the DJ guy? I don't know. Last year, Aoki Group commissioned Aganor's Elif to make a batch of branded cigars for its restaurants. I would say no.
So no, it's not. A few weeks ago, the second Vitola for that blend went on sale at the company's restaurants. Is this the same restaurant that certified Guardian of the Tobacco? I don't know, but I wonder if they're going to make Terrence a Guardian of Tobacco.
Also Guardian of Tobacco, Terrence Riley. At Aoki Restaurants certification. Aoki Reserve, Connecticut was introduced in a 5x54. It was one click, bro.
Chill. No, I thought you broke something. 5x54 double Robusto Vitola. 5x50 Robusto Extra.
Wait a minute. Okay. A 5x54 double Robusto. Okay.
5x50 Robusto Extra. They really like the Robusto, don't they? Just slightly bigger, though. It's one bigger than the other.
Slightly bigger. Yeah. Slightly bigger gauge. Blend wise, it uses an Ecuadorian Connecticut seed wrapper over Ecuadorian seed.
So it could have come from anywhere. Well, it came from Ecuador. Well, the seed did. It was grown in Ecuador.
Now, what's the seed part mean? I thought the seed meant it was an Ecuadorian Connecticut seed. Yeah, it means it was grown in Ecuador and it was originally a Connecticut. Ah, gotcha.
But they didn't state the binder, they just said Ecuador. Right, Ecuadorian Connecticut seed wrapper over Nicaraguan tobaccos from Agronorsa is made at Agronorsa Leaf Factory in Esteli at the Miami-based Aoki Tepeñaki. It is priced at $17 per cigar or $150 per box of 10. Such a deal.
Such a deal. Production was limited to 200 boxes. Aoki Group is the parent company of Kevin Aoki's various restaurants. The group has 13 concepts, most of which are in Hawaii, though there are locations in Las Vegas and Miami.
Aoki is the son of Hiroki, Rocky Aoki. Hiroki Aoki is the father. Hiroki Aoki? Yes, they call him Rocky.
Hiroki. Who is best known as the founder of the Benihana. Oh, I love those. I used to love Benihanas.
That's nice. Though he was also gained frame from his participation in extreme sports like powerboat racing and joining a... The four-man crew that became the first to successfully cross the Pacific Ocean via, ooh, an air balloon. This guy's done some stuff.
Benihana is not part of the Yoki Group. Not anymore. They probably sold. Nope.
Never was. That was where the balloons got involved. Right. Yeah.
Okay. What are we going to carry? Oh, we can't carry that. It's just at the restaurant.
What? We can't carry that. It's just at the restaurant. So then can you smoke at these restaurants?
Do they just sell cigars? Maybe you can smoke out on the patio. Oh, maybe. That'd be cool.
If they're in Hawaii. That'd be cool. You ever been to Hawaii? No, I haven't.
Do you want to go to Hawaii? I do want to go to Hawaii. It looks a lot like Florida from what I understand. Yeah, I would like to go.
But cost more. I would like to try this Hawaii you speak of. Oh. Yeah.
It's you and the 17 children? You, your wife and the 17 children? I want to bring the whole squad, yeah. It's expensive.
Yeah. The Long Flight. I'd be okay with that. The Long Flight?
All of it. Oh. I want to do it. All right.
I'll watch the dogs. Okay. Crown Head releases Thunder Kiss. Yeah.
Try it. You have to say it like that. Thunder Kiss. There you go.
Were you going to carry that? We just ordered it. Oh! Crown Head's never a company to shy away from using music for inspiration for his cigars.
Cigars is shipping a new cigar that is inspired by a song that gained popularity via Beavis and Butthead. Oh, wow. When I first saw this, I thought Thunderciss was the name of, um... The AC/DC song?
No, no. Uh, what's the wrestler that died? Blonde guy with the handlebar mustache. Hulk Hogan?
Hulk Hogan's character in Rocky, where he was Thunderciss. He was Thunderciss. So I thought it was in, like, memory of him being dead. Apparently it's not.
Apparently not. It's called Thunder Kiss, a 5x54 Robusto extra that uses an Ecuadorian Habano wrapper over a Nicaraguan binder and Nicaraguan fillers. Like many of the company's cigars, it's made at Dahutui? Dahutay?
This is where you would say Hatui. Hatui. Yeah, Pichardo. What?
Pichardo. Pichardo. Nicaragua factory owned by Pichardo, Eradio Pichardo. It's weird.
It's like I know something in the industry. It's crazy. What's even funnier is that you've actually rattled some of this stuff off before and you don't remember any of it. You know how much stuff I rattle off every week now?
How much? Five days of this. Five days. Yes.
Somebody asked me something the other day and I was like, now you gotta narrow it down to a day, not just the episode. I like it because it's Wednesday and you already look strung out, which I love. I thought it was Thursday all day. Oh no, more chaos.
Yes, another day. Each cigar has an MSRP of? How much is the Thunder Kiss? Oh, you just had to think of a thing.
50. 75. Package and bundles of 10. The company says that Thunder Kiss is being introduced as a more affordable option for the Crown Heads portfolio.
It is a regular production item. That's pretty cool. You know, I like that. I like all of that.
Yeah. A budget cigar. Budget-friendly cigar. Yeah, something that's falling under the $7 line.
I'm intrigued. So, yeah, we definitely picked that up. Just comes in one size? Yep, one size.
And it's a bundle, so. A paper-wrapped bundle. Paper-wrapped? Yeah, with a nice Thunderciss sticker on it.
Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to that one. The cigar is named after a Thunderciss 65, a 1992 song from the heavy metal band White Zombie. That is what I thought it was from.
I didn't realize it was Beavis and Butthead. but i guess i guess they used yeah okay you're right yeah oh yeah go go yeah oh oh oh oh my goodness sorry espanola carajo robusto and churchill coming in february jm tobacco inc has announced that it's early 2026 it will be adding a robusto Andy Churchill to its Espanola-Corajo line. The Espanola-Corajo line was released in June 2025, though its roots go back a year earlier to the Espanola Year of the Dragon. No Year of the Horse though.
Did Gurkha have anything to say about that? Originally they did. A limited edition released in celebration of the Lunar New Year, the Dragon. Yeah, we got that.
Yeah, we got that. The blend uses an Ecuadorian Carajo Habano wrapper, a Mexican San Andreas Maduro binder, and a filler of Dominican Orlor, Seco & Ligero. Orlor. Blackbird Cigar Company produces the line at its factory in the Dominican Republic.
The company says that the Robusto, which measures, sorry, 5x50, is designed for a concentrated, flavorful experience, The 7x50 Churchill allows the blend to evolve gradually, offering depth and complexity throughout the smoke. Lovely. Both cigars are offered in a 20-count box with a Robusto priced at? Let me see here.
Carry the one. Add the tariff. $13. Rate of inflation.
Wrong. $9 per cigar. That's really low. And the Churchill is an MSRP of?
$10. $11. Wrong again. Wow.
Look at you. The line debuted in the same 652 Toro Vitola as the limited edition, with the company saying, it was working on, we're working on adding a couple more. A Robusto, a Churchill, and a Bellicoso, the Churchill's dimensions have changed from what was originally announced, because we got it wrong. The new sizes allow- They probably didn't have the molds.
They didn't have the molds, right. The new sizes allow the Espinola Corojo blend to truly shine, said Anto Maharukan. Ooh, Maharuken. Maharuken.
Maharuken. Maharuken. Maharuken. No, Maharuken.
Maharuken. Maharuken. There you go. CEO of JM Tobacco.
Ooh, the M probably stands for? Maharuken. There you go. In a press release, the Robusto delivers a bold, focused expression of the blend, while the Churchill provides a longer, more nuanced journey.
Both formats represent what we believe is a true Corojo should be. Should be. Maharuken. Classic, refined, and full of character.
Boot, say Maharuken. Maharuken. Very good. Very good, Boots.
Very good. Bing bong. You get a bing bong. Bing bong.
The new sizes are scheduled to begin shipping to retailers on... How the hell should I know? Next month. January.
February 1st. That was close. I think in the title of the story was February 1st. I don't listen when you talk.
Good point. All right, now it's time for everybody's favorite show. What's the score? I'm going to start kissing the contestants like on Family Feud.
Oh, okay, love that. Run around and kiss you in boots. Okay. All right, this first cigar is from September 21st, 2024.
Patrick Lagride, Cigars, Illusion, Nicaraguan Reviews, Illusion, The Group of Five, RB. Okay. Boots, do you want to go first, or do you want me to go first? Duh, you go first, the time is hard.
Okay, all right, I'll go first. Let's see, Patrick, Illusion's usually very good. I'm going to start with a 90. I don't know how to spell allusion, so 65.
Oh, okay. All right. 65, buddy. Whatever you say.
All right. The cigar is the group of five RB. Country of origin is Nicaragua. Factory is the Agonorsa.
Wrapper, undisclosed. Binder, undisclosed. Filler. Why don't they just say undisclosed again?
Nicaraguan. Oh, they wanted to throw that one out there. That went out there, apparently. The length, undisclosed.
No, it's five inches. Okay. Ring gauge is 52. Shape is round.
MSRP is $16. A box of 15. Kind of strange. $240.
Seven and a half cigars, two rows. They probably do 15. Maybe eight and seven. Yeah.
Put a little block on the corner. I think that they do less than that. I think that they would probably stack it a little more. Three Stacks?
Three Stacks of Five. Like a fat box. Yeah. Release date was June of 2024.
Number of cigars smoked is tres. Okay. All right, first comment. Oh, wait, you got to vote again.
Die stick is 65. Okay, I'm going to stay 90. 90? Comment number one.
You haven't given me anything to really change, other than the fact that it's an Illusion and it's a Robusto, And it's Patrick. Except you don't know any of the stuff that's in it. It's got a Nicaraguan filler. Right.
The Illusion of the Group of Rory Five consistently delivers excellent flavors when it is burning properly, showing off an impressive mix of creaminess, hazelnut, earth, and pepper. At its best, the final third becomes the most complex and layered portion of the cigar, proving that the blend itself is generally well-crafted and capable of memorable depth. 69. Ha, ha, ha.
Bing, bong. Uh, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say 89. All right. Comment number two.
Throughout all three cigars, a reviewer notes that retro hails are exceptionally lively and engaging, offering waves of black pepper, peppermint, and later a spicier kick that turns the aroma experience into one of the cigars' standout characteristics. Even early on the profile is described as vibrant, textured, and pleasantly energetic. Oh, that sounds good, uh, 73, okay, uh, I'm gonna go back up to 90. Oh, back to 90.
Number three, despite strong flavors, all three samples suffer from persistent combustion and draw problems. Dull! With one cigar repeatedly going out and another requiring constant work just to maintain smoke production. The reviewer describes the experience as a Sisyphean, explaining that the poor combustion not only impedes enjoyment but also dulls the flavor, forcing the cigar to show a flatter, less nuanced version of what it's clearly capable of.
6-7. My kid talks about 6-7 all the time. I'm going to do 6-7. Okay, 6-7.
Okay for you. Or six numbers. Man, that really hurts, that number. Yeah, I got the burn problem.
I know what happens there. I'm going to go 85. 85. Final thoughts?
Yeah, go ahead. Oh, okay. When it comes to writing these summaries, A few things are as frustrating as seeing a cigar with flavor, score, that would put a cigar of the year consideration, but construction, that would merit meeting of the factory's production supervisors. Flavor-wise, Illusion, the group of five, starts with a unique sensation of pepper and spice that makes a bold introduction and for the most part works.
It can get to be a bit too much, but as I noted, the peppermint sensation in the retro hill makes the gamble worth it. After getting into a more familiar profile, the transition into the final third is where the blend shows its best expression. It is so good in the second cigar, it makes a case to become one of those special flavor moments that I seek out with subsequent cigars. Hoping you get to taste that moment again.
Unfortunately, it's also where the combustion issues begin to arise. As I had to write far too often this year, combustion issues cost this cigar, not just points or a possible spot in the awards conversation, but they also prevented what should have been an enjoyable experience without the frustration of drawing a lighter bite to relight it. If the combustion did its job, this would have been a much better cigar, and I hope that if you decide to try it, you get a cigar without the issues that I had. It's seemingly so full of potential that I might even track down a couple more just to see if I can get a better experience because the blend certainly seems to have the chops to deliver something special.
Very long-winded there. I got tired. I stick 6'7". 6'7 for the boot.
Bing bong. Bing bong. Wow, he said it was a great cigar. Great cigar.
Burn issues. Terrible burn issues. It's terrible. I don't mind lighting up a cigar.
It's lighting up a cigar, I mean, you know. Yeah. It's just part of it. But if it's plugged, that's a...
Well, it wasn't plugged. It's had re-lights. It had re-lights. Maybe put it down a lot.
Maybe he's drinking some fruity cocktail. I'm gonna go 85. Maybe Charlie keeps going on the end of his cigar and blows it out. It's very possible.
You said 85? 85. Final score, 67. Damn!
Boots, you won. No, it's 85. Ah, very smart. It was 85.
I lied, it was 85. Oh! Oh, a little tricky tricky there. So I got it.
You got it right on the nose. Right on the nose. You tried to trick me. Right on the nose.
And I nailed it. And I couldn't stop you. You just kept going. Boots, be quiet over there.
I'm very sorry. You got excited because you thought you won. I got very happy. I got number.
I know. You tricked me. I got number. You tricked me.
I tricked the boots. Bing bong. Bing bong. It's too funny.
Hey, how much time? How much time? About 45 minutes. I got one other thing to add.
Oh, add something. I don't know if this is true or not. Oh, we're just making stuff up now? Yeah.
That's what they accuse us of usually. Yeah, well, we don't fact check. I heard a rumor that Davidoff cut a bunch of people this week. Uh-oh.
Yeah. Well, we can check. Yeah, some top names in the industry or some big guys. I'll check as soon as we get done.
Okay. Yeah, so we'll follow that up tomorrow. But I heard that Davidoff may have fueled some growth today. Oh, can they fire Jack from Espinosa?
They could fire Jack, yeah. Oh. Davidoff could call and fire Jack. By the way, Jack, you're fired.
I don't work for you. Yeah, but if you did, you would have been fired. You're done. You're done.
Alright, anything else to add? This Friday, here at Cigar Hustler, we will have Eric Espinosa and Richie Otero in this very room, this nice little room. $65, get you a ticket, you get dinner, two cigars, and an intimate evening with Eric Espinosa. Yeah, tickets are almost sold out.
Oh, and $25 credit against Box's Night of Event. That is correct. All right. com.
All right, guys, we got to go, bye. Bye. com, the churelli comes in black, bold, clean, and built for battle, available in multiple sizes for warriors of every shape and strength, and remember, the actual image does not dance or move, but it definitely makes a statement. com before they're gone!
Show Notes
On today’s show: YouTube is wrapping up your year in videos, and there’s a full-blown Code Red happening over at ChatGPT HQ. In cigar news, SOTL certifies Burn, Crowned Heads is thunder-kissing its way into the headlines, Espinosa has something big cooking for February, and Aganorsa drops the Aoki. And of course… we close it out with the industry’s favorite game — What’s the Score?