ACHP 432 Its Gonna Be Close!
Episode Summary
Mike Palmer, Mikey Stevan Kevich and engineer Mark "Boots" Hippelhauser open episode 432 with a hard look at the economy and what it means for cigar retail. Breaking down the delayed jobs report — 4.6% unemployment, downward revisions, and federal layoffs — they connect the "K-shaped economy" to what they see at the shop every day: high-end buyers are still grabbing Opus X and Padrón, while the middle-class customer who actually sustains brick-and-mortar is buying less, smoking less, and burning through inventory bought during the 2020 boom. Their takeaway for retailers: work ten times harder, take care of your customers, and the strong will survive.
On the cigar side, United Cigars and Selected Tobacco have opened the first official Atabe Lounge at Blend Bar just north of downtown Indianapolis, showcasing Atabe, Byron, Alfonso, Nelson and Bandolero plus the wider United portfolio. The guys also dig into J.C. Newman's decision to register 163 cigars on California's UTL list under Assembly Bill 3218 (with 35 more exempt on wholesale price over $12), the roughly $50,000 in filing fees, the $2 million-plus California has already collected at $300 per product, and Drew Newman's criticism of a program that charges the same fee to a small-batch handmade cigar and a mass-market product. Their prediction: legacy brands will weather it while boutiques quietly disappear from California shelves.
A surprise mid-show phone call to Tyler Jones of Espinosa Cigars confirms the Espinosa Salesman of the Year race is still undecided and "gonna be close" between Tyler and Richie — the source of the episode title. The crew then runs through a list of kosher and Jewish-heritage cigars for Hanukkah, including Bosner's rabbi-supervised kosher line, Davidoff (Zino Davidoff's Kiev roots), Torio Cigars, League of Fine Old Bastards founder Adam Levine's Schindler's List family history, Señor Solomon and Maryfel — plus an explanation of why not every cigar is automatically kosher (additives, humectants and glues). The show closes with a single round of "What's the Score?" on Patrick Lagreid's review of the El Septimo Sacred Arts Collection Leonardo da Vinci, a 7 1/2 x 40 lancero that landed at 85.
In This Episode
- 01Jobs Report and the K-Shaped Economy4.6% unemployment, federal layoffs and stalled retail sales explained through what the hosts actually see at the cigar counter.
- 02How Middle-Class Buyers Are Reshaping Cigar RetailHigh-end Opus X and Padrón customers keep buying while the middle-class backbone of brick-and-mortar slows down and smokes through old stock.
- 03Best U.S. Cities for Christmas 2025A WalletHub-based countdown with Atlanta at number one, Pittsburgh second, Seattle third, Las Vegas fourth and Orlando fifth — plus holiday travel tangents.
- 04Interstellar Comet 3I/ATLAS Passes EarthThe rogue interstellar object makes a 167-million-mile pass before vanishing by the mid-2030s.
- 05Atabe Lounge Opens at Blend Bar IndianapolisUnited Cigars and Selected Tobacco debut their first Atabe Lounge, featuring Atabe, Byron, Alfonso, Nelson and Bandolero.
- 06Phone Call: Tyler Jones on Espinosa Salesman of the YearTyler Jones calls in from a frozen Indiana to confirm the 2025 Espinosa Salesman of the Year race against Richie is still too close to call.
- 07J.C. Newman and California's UTL List198 J.C. Newman cigars stay legal in California under AB 3218, and Drew Newman calls out the flat $300-per-product fee structure.
- 08Kosher and Jewish-Heritage Cigars for HanukkahWhy tobacco isn't automatically kosher, plus rundowns of Bosner, Davidoff, Torio, League of Fine Old Bastards, Señor Solomon and Maryfel.
- 09What's the Score: El Septimo Sacred Arts Leonardo da VinciThe crew guesses the score on Patrick Lagreid's review of this 7 1/2 x 40 Costa Rican lancero, with cherry, milk chocolate and old-fashioned notes offset by combustion issues.
Brands & Cigars Discussed
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Transcript
Welcome to the Cigar Hustler Podcast available five days a week in both audio and video formats. I'm Mike Palmer, your host, and for the next 60 to 90 minutes, myself, along with our button-pushing engineer, Mark Boots, did you try turning it on and then back off, Hippelhauser? Yeah, I did. Good, good.
And then on my left, Mikey, is there ash in my shirt, Stevan Kevich, the three of us, the cigar, three of us are the Cigar Hustler podcast. This is episode 432. Welcome, gentlemen. Hey, hey.
Hit your home button, Michael. All right, so, how did Mr. Carney do yesterday? How was the show?
I think, listen, he's great. You know, he handles himself well. He's got some knowledge. He's got a perspective that's not in tune with ours to everything, which is fantastic.
You know, I think it went extremely well. I think it went extremely well. He is a little long-winded sometimes. Yes, but at least he didn't.
He wasn't the department of the redundancy department this time. Oh, that's good. You know, he didn't say things three times. Right, right.
Just to reiterate. Yeah, you just said that, you know. That didn't happen. Oh, that's good.
Yeah. Did you tell him we're gonna come over for the fire pit? He would love that. He would love that.
I'm sure they would love to have somebody else to talk to. Hey! Just him and Mike sitting there making bone tallow or whatever they were doing. We could carry that show for them.
Oh, yeah. Sure. All right. Now on today's show, "Nobody Wanna Work", best place to spend Christmas in the USA.
A silent visitor from outer space swings by Earth. Then in cigars, someone finally gets their own lounge. C. Newman plans a California vacation, and we have the best cigars for Hanukkah.
Then we roll into a special, what's the score? A special one. It's a single one. Many one.
Whatever you want to say. Okay. Did you realize there are special Hanukkah cigars? I like they're kosher-related cigars.
There are a couple of kosher cigars, and other ones, we have the best five. Yeah, I've seen them in a long time ago, I saw them. Oh, I was, I was not aware, I stumbled across that story today. But before we get started, Mikey, how do we get some of that CHPod swag that John Carney was so desperate to get yesterday?
com, you can get this one. The Pressure is a Privilege shirt, that's our newest one that just came out. com, you buy one, you get the second one 40% off, and if you spend $100 or more, you're going to get free shipping. Shout-out to my guy, Ken Miller, he has purchased more than once, and he just made a recent purchase this week, or last week, something like that.
Yeah, Ken Miller, you're a stud. We appreciate your support. com. How long are we running the free shipping thing in the buy one, get one, 40% off?
Is that a holiday special, or is that like, we're just generous? I have no idea. As of right now, it's up there. But I mean, we could turn it off at any time?
Yeah, well, you better buy now, then. Absolutely, buy now. Buy now. We are past the guarantee for holiday shipping, I would imagine.
Yeah, I mean, I'll do everything in my power to get it done, but I can't guarantee it. We do not guarantee holiday shipping any longer. Also, we have a couple of new Patreon members. Yes, yes, yes, we do.
I don't have their names. Mr. Fred Rue. Mr.
Fred Rue is the newest one, yes. He is our latest Patreon member. Yes. As of yesterday.
He said he was a Patreon member before. He said he was a Seeker when apparently he was not. I think maybe he would listen on the occasion with Mr. Carlson.
Mr. Carlson, yeah. I believe so, yes. That makes sense.
So if you want to hear more industry stuff, get some cigar reviews, some real inside baseball, check out our Patreon, and we appreciate your support. com, a Cigar Housers podcast. All right, now all the information you need to know for Thursday, December 18th, 2025. 6% unemployment is the highest it's been since 2021.
Just tell me, I can't hear you. Oh yeah, I know. Oh, it's raining? All right.
Do we need to stop? No, keep going. Now economic data sends mixed and worrying signals. S.
economy may be losing momentum. In November, employers added 64,000 jobs, but October payrolls were revised sharply lower, showing loss of 105,000 jobs. 6%, its highest level since 2021. Retail sales also stalled in October, showing little overall growth.
A major reason for the weak job numbers was government layoffs. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that about 160,000 federal workers were cut from payrolls in October. Over the past two months, the private sector added 121,000 jobs, mostly in healthcare and education, while manufacturing and employment fell to its lowest level since 2022. This is all very confusing.
It's very turbulent times is what's going on. Something's up, some things are down, the government's laying people off, but the private sector is hiring more people, but it doesn't equal out, so we're still losing jobs? Yeah. So the theory is that it's called a K-shaped economy.
Right. So the K-shaped economy, forgive me if I screw this up because I'm not an economist, that means that higher income individuals are still doing well. Right. Right.
However, lower income individuals are, it's going, they're tanking, they're losing their jobs and all these other things. Okay. So I want to, I think lower income, I think that's more middle class. Right.
So you're, I think that you're experiencing that. And I can tell you from the data that what we've been tracking, as far as the store is concerned, like we have had a few solid weeks, and then we had a week just went pew and just tanked. So there's an extreme amount of inconsistency in the marketplace right now, and if you're a small business, you have to work 10 times harder than you did in the past to sustain or even grow a little bit. You know, that's just the reality.
That's the world that we're currently living in. Just like anything else, does the cycle come to an end? Yes, but only the strong that were there will survive, and some of these other ones will fade out. We saw a lot of retailers starting to go away early on in this year, you know?
And I think that that's going to kind of continue to happen going into the beginning of next year. I think that if they hold tight and if they continue to work hard, a lot of them should be okay. You know, it's not like no one's coming into the store anymore, you know, but you have to continue to reinvent yourself, you have to continue to work hard, and do what you can, and provide great customer service, and take care of your customers in order to make it work. Yeah, as I'm out and about, there are many stores that are saying they're doing well, and as you're there at the store, you see a lot of people coming in, a lot of people buying stuff, and you go to some other stores, and it's a ghost town, nobody shows up for the entire time you're there.
It's so random by how they do it. Yeah, you know, I think that that's kind of a testament of the location and then the amount of effort and time that a lot of the retailers are putting into continuing that growth. Your customer isn't going to stick around if they don't feel welcomed. At this point, there are many other options and they're not buying as hard as they once were.
That's more your middle-class guy, like your high-end guy, your Opus X. Yeah, they're still buying. Yeah, your Opus X guy, your expensive Padrones, sorry, I had a brain fart there, your Padrone guy, they're still there, they're still in existence, but your middle class guy, the guy that really sustains your business for a lot of these retailers, they're buying less, and it's showing, it's 100% showing, and the job loss thing makes sense to me. So, hang in there.
It's not the end of the world. If you work hard, you'll get through it, and, you know, happier days, I feel like they're not that far away. So, keep doing what you're doing. Tell the story to all the retailers right there.
" Next month remains low at about 24%. Retail spending tells a mixed story, while most retail categories saw small gains. Spending is being driven mainly by wealthier consumers, while lower-income households continue to feel squeezed by the rising cost. Somebody just said that.
I just heard that somewhere. I mean, it's weird. It's like as if I'm living it. You know what I mean?
I don't need an economist to tell me that. We see that every day. All the time here. The scary part to me is that cigars are really kind of in the front, like a cutting edge way, like an indicator to let you know where the economy is.
When 2020 hit, everybody was buying cigars. When everybody was stuck at home, you got these stimulus checks, everybody had a surplus of cash, you know, it was great, it was crazy. You're selling them like crazy. Now a lot of those guys, a lot of them have faded back, a lot of them, they're, you know, they're, they're feeling the pinch and they're not buying as much.
And a lot of those guys, if a, if a regular consumer buys a box of cigars, that box of cigars could last them months, right? They may smoke one every couple of days, or maybe two on the weekend or something like that. You know, your, your true cigar guy that smokes at least one a day, they're a little few and far between. And those guys, they probably are consuming less.
They're not smoking as often. Right. You know. Or they have so many of them that they bought in the past that they're starting to.
Smoking through their stock. Yeah. Hey, I can just smoke through this and not spend the money on it. You know.
All right. Bottom line, the economy isn't collapsing, but the cracks have become harder to ignore. That's very true. That's very true.
All right. S. cities for Christmas in 2025. The Christmas in the United States looks a little different depending on where you are, and in 2025 some cities are going bigger than ever.
Wallet Hub analyzed holiday traditions, shopping decorations, events, and overall Christmas spirit to determine which cities truly embraced the season. Here's why these ten cities stood out. You wanna guess any of them? I'm starting with ten and going up to one.
Okay, starting with ten and going up to one. Just do, let's do two or three at a time, otherwise I gotta scroll back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Can you run to the top five? Yeah, hold on.
We'll skip five of them. We'll do top five. Two, three. I don't know what number this is.
Okay, we're starting with this one. Okay. It's either four or five. All right.
Do you want to guess first, Boots, now that you've joined us? Are we guessing the top five, or are we guessing what four or five is? Top five. Yeah.
Oh, okay. Just give me one from the top five. New York. New York City.
New York City, sorry. So Manhattan? Well, these are cities. Oh, New York.
They wouldn't group it as New York City. I think they would group it as New York City? Yeah. Okay.
I was going to say the same thing. I was going to say Manhattan. The New York City was number 10. Okay.
Really? Wow. Wow. With the big tree and everything?
Yep. I guess it's not that much. Isn't there like a place in Georgia called like Germany, Georgia or something? No, it's Helen.
Helena, Georgia. Helena, Georgia. Yeah. That's not right.
You have the right state, but not the right city. It'd probably be Atlanta. Atlanta's the number one. Atlanta's number one.
Atlanta's number one. Really? All right, so you already found number one. Orlando is number five, driven by its massive theme park Christmas celebrations.
Few cities can match the scale, production value, and nonstop holiday entertainment found there. Las Vegas is number fourth place by turning Christmas into a spectacle. Lavish hotel displays, seasonal shows, and over-the-top decorations that fit the city's larger-than-life reputation. Number three is Seattle.
Ugh. Seattle comes in at number 3 with its cozy winter atmosphere, Christmas markets, and strong emphasis on seasonal events and local traditions. Cozy. Number 2, you would have never have gotten it.
Yeah. Number 2. Albuquerque. Pittsburgh.
Who wants to go to Pittsburgh? You know what, I believe, you know what, I believe that because we went to Pittsburgh. Oh yeah, we did. And everybody was so nice there.
You know what I mean? So it's gotta, it's gotta have a feel-good kind of atmosphere when it comes to Christmas. That's almost exactly what it says. Pittsburgh takes second place thanks to its deep-rooted holiday traditions, strong community involvement, and a high number of Christmas-themed attractions per capita.
And Atlanta claims the top spot in 2025 with mild weather, extensive holiday events, strong retail offerings, and a widespread community participation. Atlanta checks every box for Christmas Spirit, making it America's most festive city this year. Really? Okay.
Not even Christmas Florida, huh? Not even. I mean, the only people that go there is people who want to get their cards stamped. We were in Christmas.
I tell my car for green man, look in there. Okay, so would you go to Las Vegas for Christmas? No. You don't think of that, do you?
But if you, the way they describe it, though, with the lavish, over-the-top decorations and stuff, every hotel lobby's probably got fake snow falling from the ceiling, you know, Vegas style. Yeah. It might not be that bad. Compulsive gambling.
I think if you're a degenerate, you're like, you know where we're going, honey? Could be, right. Because it's amazing. Well, you wouldn't take the kids to Vegas for Christmas.
Of course they would. Well, the degenerates would, but I mean, like us, except Boots with the moneymakers, that's probably where they all go. That one's going to get us in trouble. " I like the buffets.
Right, you know, the big Christmas buffet. Do they have buffets anymore? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
99, unless you go to Circus Circus, and then you don't want to eat the food. Is that still there? Yeah, it's still there. It's got to be the oldest hotel.
Nobody's going to buy it, it's disgusting from what I understand. You blow it up. Yeah, but they only blow it up when they're going to build a new one. So if somebody buys it, then they blow it up.
Right. You don't blow it up, I go, who wants a spot? You think it's disgusting in there? I've seen pictures, yeah, it's pretty scary.
Is it scary? Well, it's not. It's like a circus. It's like if you go on a Disney cruise, and then you go on like the… Margaritaville?
The Margaritaville, thank you, I couldn't think of that. You go on the Margaritaville cruise. Okay, if anybody is in Vegas for Christmas, and you can send us some photos of what Circus Circus looks like for Christmas, I am intrigued to see if they do anything, dust off the 1980s Christmas tree. They have just the blow mold plastic things that they put up.
The three foot tall Santa, Frosty the snowman, and the reindeer. That would be hilarious. And they put clown makeup on all of it. Yeah, where Santa's cheeks have been pushed in because his rosy cheeks now are deflated.
Yeah, I don't want to see the elaborate one. I want to see the nice stuff. I want to see the worst of the worst guy that kind of just half-assed it. I bet you it would be crazy if somebody sends us photos or whatever, and it's just super elaborate.
Santa's laying down. He's not even standing up. Oh, he's a real Santa. He's missing an arm.
He's missing an arm. Have you ever seen the outside of that when we've been there? Of course. Yeah, the outside looks pretty rough.
It's right by SLS. It's right by SLS. Right, yeah, it's right by where we were staying last time. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I'm really surprised New York was not in the top five. It was. It was number 10.
No, he said it was 10. That's right. Number 10. Yeah, you would think, well, you know what, though, what's kind of funny is we went to New York, I don't know, this is before Teddy, so probably seven years ago.
I remember when you went. Yeah, seven or eight years ago. You wore that big leather jacket. Yeah.
And we wanted to see the tree, and we saw that it was busy. But, I mean, that's kind of right. There's not a ton of- There's the tree and then there's the ice skating, which are next to each other, if I remember correctly. Yep.
And then what else is there? There's the FAO Schwartz that they kind of brought back in, but it's half-assed. It's not- Right. Do they have the floor piano?
No. They might. I remember going to FAO- The floor-cano? Yeah, from B.
Piano. Oh, the piano. Piano. I thought he said, I thought he said volcano.
Yeah, the volcano. The floor volcano? What? That'd be cool.
I remember going to New York for like a school trip when I was a kid, and we went to FAO Schwartz, and that place was amazing. Oh, it was back then? Sure. The toys, I mean, I spent, I probably, I bought something for myself that was way super.
Like a big teddy bear? A big teddy bear? No, it was like an action figure if I remember correctly. And it was, you know, ridiculously expensive because it was there.
Oh, Rocket Man from like Jingle All The Way? I. Joe or something. That's not a real toy.
You gotta lower your mic a smidge. Now the piano, only three of the keys work, at the end where the wire goes in, it's been all taped back together. Well, they opened it right up, and the FAO Schwartz last time we were there was right next to like the NBC where everybody, where they talk and stuff like that. And, you know, at that time we were, we always watched it, it was always playing at the house.
A. Schwartz in Orlando? I think there was for a short time over by Disney somewhere. Makes sense.
Disney wanted their piece, I'm sure. I used to go to the big Toys R Us in Hong Kong every time I was there and get the kids this weird action figure line, I mean, it was something you couldn't get over here. Right, it was fake. No, no, it was just an Asian-themed thing or something that they didn't sell over here.
I. Joes are Asian? Yeah, they're all Asian. I.
Chen. I. Chen. I.
Chen. That makes sense. Yeah. Kill the bad American.
Right. All of them have Kung Fu Grip. It just comes with. We have that.
It just comes with. A calming Kung Fu Grip. It's not like a difference. They just call it Chinese Grip.
Jesus. Chinese Grip. They all have Chinese Grip. grip.
That's nice. I. I. Joe.
I. Joe. I. Joe came in a little box made out of bamboo.
Wow. Really? Yeah. He was a Vietnam prisoner of war.
That sounds right on par. He's all sunched up with his arms and legs. I think he just can't stand up. Like Rambo where they would dump the pig shit and stuff into the pit or whatever.
No, no. No pig shit. No. They give you like a little Just be serious Mike, come on.
A little water dropper. Right. One big Russian guy is in the set. Now they come with baths from Wuhan.
If, not including these cities, if there could be one city that you could go to for Christmas, what would it be? Or, I mean, it could even be a state, I guess. It doesn't have to be a city. I would think Gatlinburg would be nice.
Tennessee? Yeah. You know what's funny is I was also, you're marking Tennessee. Uh, Nashville or something, something like that.
Nashville is a little commercial anymore, but I bet it's decorated real nice though for the holidays. I would be okay with the, the, the commercial ability of it, but I would want to, to happen when there was snow, you know? Right, yeah. Like, because that's, what's always kind of in the back of my head every year, like, man, December sucks, dude.
You just constantly going and going and it's, it's fatiguing and it's exhausting and especially if you're in retail, So you just, you're going, and like, I don't, I'm not complaining about it because I feel like I'm just living, you know, but I feel like I miss Christmas. I feel like every year Christmas gets shorter and I miss it and I'm like, man, I really just want to take the kids to a place where they can see, even if I drove home afterwards, you know, drove up, saw the snow, they played in it for, you know, a half hour because they'd be done after that anyways. Sure. And they're like, oh, I'm cold.
Yeah. And then we could just go home. It's supposed to be 72 here on Christmas Day. Right.
I mean, it's going to be a beautiful day, but you know, it would be nice if a little cold, I don't need snow, but a little cold would be nice. Yeah, we haven't had a cold Christmas in like 10 years. Yeah, I was thinking about like that, there's a Hot Springs place. They have this hotel where they incorporate like the Hot Springs, you can sit in them, and there's snow all around and everything.
That's cool, where's that at? It's, it's, the city is called Hot Springs. I think it's Colorado. What state is it in?
Colorado? Yeah, I think it's Colorado. Oh, that's kind of far. It is far, I did Colorado one year for Thanksgiving, it was cold.
Maybe Utah would be cool. Can't breathe, no air. Colorado? Colorado.
Yeah, when I went there, I went to Denver. Yes. And then we went, did like all the gardens, and we tried to go do Pikes Peak. And you can't, I mean, just going up it, you start losing.
Our cabin, when we went, was so high, you had a hard time breathing. And then the bedroom's on the second floor, so then it gets thinner. And then in our room, we had bunk beds, so I'm on the top bunk, so it couldn't get any worse for me. Palmer's like, this is it.
This is it. I'm going to die up here in this bunk bed. There's actually no oxygen at all up here. Oh, and my daughter, she got altitude sickness.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. That's a thing. We went because our niece was at the Air Force Academy there.
I mean, that's why they trained them there, because the oxygen is so thin. Because, you know, they're in the airplanes. Right. Right.
Right. Makes sense. It was miserable. We couldn't wait to get back down to Denver where they had air.
I'd never go back. We got family up in Minnesota. I'd love to make a break for that, but like the... Minnesota?
Oh, yeah. But it's like the Manny. Yeah, it's like two degrees. Oh, I have been there.
Yeah, that's a little bit cold. Maybe like a North Carolina cold. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Just something, you know, like upper 20s.
Minnesota? First of all, I've been there during Christmas. I know. It was a horrible place.
Yeah. Is that a horrible place? It's a horrible place. Yes, it's cold.
They plug in the cars up there. Yeah. They plug in the cars? I interviewed with 3M, which is in Minnesota, and they were telling me how cold it gets and that they plug in there.
Here's where you would plug in your car when you drive to work. I'm like, what? I got to plug in my car? What are you plugging into?
A little power bank thing so that your car will start when you come back out because it's so cold. Oh, wow. And actually, they have upgraded systems inside their vehicles up there. Yeah, it keeps your battery warm.
No shit. Otherwise, your car won't start. Yep. Yeah, I literally, I think I told you this.
See, here from Florida, like a resident, you're like, I got a what? No, I ain't doing that. I don't have an electric car, I don't have to charge it. No, no, it's not what I'm talking about, sir.
No. It's ridiculous. Remember, I told you the story where I went into the hotel to go check in, I came back out and my bottle of water was frozen already? Yeah.
Yeah, that's inhabitable. In the car? Yeah. See, that's just ridiculous.
It's not inhabitable because people live there. It's a horrible place. It's inhabitable. People should not live there.
Yeah. Well, we don't need everybody here. We don't need everybody here. I mean, I wouldn't be against Matt Tai coming down here.
Oh yeah, he could come down. And Raul. And Raul, yeah. Apparently he had to shave off his mustache today because he nicked it while he was trimming.
Really? Yep. That was an epic mustache. Not anymore.
All right, a silent visitor from space. Silent. A silent visitor from another star system is slipping through our solar neighborhood this week and not coming in quietly. A rogue comet, older than Earth itself, has entered our skies for a final haunting pass before disappearing back into the darkness of the interstellar space known as 3i backslash Atlas.
I don't know how you would say that. The object was only discovered this summer, already racing at impossible speeds. On Friday, it will pass within 167 million miles of Earth. Just right next door.
This is practically here. Practically there. Close enough for NASA to lock its telescope into the icy mass as it drifts past our planet like a cosmic warning shot. Scientists estimate the comet could be miles wide, a frozen relic from another solar system, but it's fading fast, slipping into the void as if trying to escape detection.
Astronomers say that this may be humanity's only chance to see it using backyard telescopes under dark skies. Wasn't there another satellite meter that came by that they said, a Halley's Comet or something, this is the last time you're going to see it, Like in your lifetime or something? Yeah. And then didn't it come back again like faster than they thought it would or something?
Pretty much, yeah. And you got to see it again? They have no idea what they're doing. No.
Oh yeah, they're just guessing. They have no idea. Yeah, no one's gonna tell them they're wrong. Yeah.
Right. I mean, a lot of your space stuff is kind of, to be honest. A lot of the stories are? We just covered the fact that the spaceship almost hit a...
Almost hit a Chinese satellite. Yeah. You didn't like that? And now we're back in space.
You said more technology stories and stuff. Informative science. This is informative. This is informative, this thing's passing by the earth.
Okay. Oh, you're so mean. By the mid-2030s, it will vanish beyond our reach, never to return. A stranger from beyond the stars, a reminder of how small we are, and proof that the universe doesn't announce what comes next.
What if it's those bugs shooting things at us? What bugs? That movie with the bugs. Starship Troopers?
Yeah. You know, those bugs turn around, they shoot the bomb out of their ass. It's an ugly planet. It's a bug planet.
The bug planet, right. And all the kids are killing the bugs in America or on the on Earth. Yeah. Right.
Well, if it is that, we're fucked. No, I think we could beat the bugs. You think so? Sure.
Why not? It's a lot of people afraid of bugs. We have nukes and these are big bugs. Yeah.
All right, Michael cigars. This is cigars. OK, change it to cigars. Oh, yeah, I'm going to inform trending science subjects.
I'm looking right now. See if there's something that you missed. Oh, I looked in training science. It wasn't anything, at least not last night.
Finally, an Atabe Lounge at United Cigars have selected tobacco, select tobacco, have announced the official debut of the Atabe Lounge at the Blend Bar in Indianapolis, Indiana. Oh. It's cold there. Okay.
You can stay with Tyler, your entire family. Oh, that's, yeah, that'd be great. He'd probably love that. He's never there, so.
Yeah, what's the difference? Blend Bar is located just north of downtown Indianapolis. It is known for premium cigars and spirits, as well as a modern culinary menu of small plate options. He lives in Wisconsin.
I thought he lived in Indianapolis. No. Tyler from Espinosa? Oh, Tyler from Espinosa.
Are you talking about Tyler Jeffery? I thought you were talking about Tyler, the other Tyler. No, not the other Tyler. Baby Grande.
He lives in Texas. Did he move back? No, but he's originally from Wisconsin. He's originally from Wisconsin, yes.
No, no, this is Tyler from Espinosa. This is the Tyler. The Tyler. Number one, Tyler Jones.
I know, I haven't heard if he got number one this year. Nobody's saying anything. Well, they don't say it anymore because he's just it. We normally have heard by now, it's the end of the year.
That's a good question. I mean, when Jack calls, he's no longer saying, I'm with Espinosa Salesman of the Year. The lounge's ambience includes... Oh, we're on the phone.
Sorry, we'll be... We're going to find out right now. And now, we may... We may not answer.
You may not answer. We may not be bothered. Try Tyler. I go to the source.
So, the man who would get the award? Do you want to call Tyler? Yeah, Jack's not answering. You're calling this morning.
Wow. Tyler would answer. You're right. Tyler will answer.
Jack used to be, you know. He's going to be so excited. Two rings. Yeah, it used to be two rings.
Jack used to be what we called him. Yeah. Jack, two rings. Now it's Jack, I can't be bothered.
Right. Oh, I thought he answered. Uh oh. Oh, maybe he's talking to Jack.
I gotta go. The podcast is going. Jack's like, no, don't answer those guys. Don't answer those guys.
We hate them. Wow. What is this phone call? Hey, you're on the podcast, but I got you on speakerphone, what's up, buddy?
What's up, how are you guys? Good, man. Hey, I just had a question. We haven't heard any announcements about the Espinosa Cigar Salesman of the Year.
Has that happened? No, it has not happened yet. You know, it's not the end of the year yet. So, you know, we got a little battle between me and Richie going, so we'll see how it ends up.
Oh, Richie. We could have the new one in the audience. S. Oh, yeah.
Look, I don't make the rules, okay? You gotta take that up with Jack. It needs to be your next phone call, all right? He was my first phone call, he didn't answer.
So how close is it? Oh, great, so I'm the secondary guy. Well, listen, it's just a hierarchy. What do you want from me?
I gotta go to the national, the guy who would know, right? You don't know. That's true, that's true. Oh, maybe we could have got information.
How are you guys doing? We're doing good. So how tight is it? Do we know how tight this race is?
I think it's going to come down pretty close, so I mean, who knows? Okay. I mean, I know what I'm doing, and I think I know what he's doing, so, but you know, I'm just doing my thing. It's frozen up here in beautiful Indiana, so it's, yeah, dealing with that currently, but outside of that, everything's good.
Don't forget to ask if you and your family can come stay with him over Christmas. Well, I love Richie, but I love you a little bit more, so I won't be buying a fucking single thing of Espinosa for the rest of the month. My man. Not a damn, I don't care if I need it or not.
It's not happening. I'll buy January 1st. You think Tyler smokes short cigars in Indiana right now? No, Tyler smokes big cigars.
He smokes big cigars. I see the photos. Yeah, that is correct. Perfect.
There you go. Atta boy. All right, buddy. We're gonna let you go.
Go sell some cigars. All right. Thanks, brother. All right.
Later. Bye. All right. Bye.
All right. Tyler Jones, Espinosa Cigars. You didn't ask him if you could stay with him over Christmas. No, I don't.
I don't. I'm not going. Oh, change your mind that fast already? What?
Change your mind that fast already? You said Tennessee. Yeah, I wouldn't go that far. It's not that much further.
Yes, it is. Indiana is a lot further. A little to the left. A little to the left.
A little to the left. Indianapolis is on the far east side. Yeah. I'm not going that far.
All right. The lounge's ambience includes dark wood finishes, leather seating, and custom lighting designed to complement the experience. The lounge itself will showcase the brands of selected tobaccos: Atabe, Byron, Alfonso, Nelson, and Bandolero. In addition, the whole United Cigar portfolio will be available at the Blend Bar.
Our goal has always been to offer our guests an unforgettable experience, said Corey Johnson, owner of Blend Bar. Partnering with United Cigars and honoring the Atabe name allows us to deepen that mission. Atabe? Atabe is how you pronounce it, I was corrected yesterday when I visited stores.
So it's all United. All United, all United, all the time, everything. And that's it? Even the red, I was going to say the Red Dragon.
Bandoleros is United? I don't think it's all they carry, but they do carry all of the United. That's like their staple. Right.
Okay. So they still offer other products. Yes. This is just the very first for the white people, the Atabe Lounge.
Got it. Got it. Okay. Well, that's pretty cool.
Yeah, it's not bad. How long have they just opened? They just became an Atabe Lounge. They've been open before, but they just transitioned over.
Very cool. Yeah. Get it in before the end of the year. Yeah.
Get the discounts when you want to stock out. There you go. Yeah. During the slow season for the cigar industry.
Right. Sure. Okay. Okay.
Very nice. All right. C. Newman goes to California with hat in hand.
Interesting. C. Newman secures his place in California. C.
Newman Company has officially registered 163 cigars on California's UTL list, with another 35 cigars being exempt due to the wholesale price over $12. Aren't all our cigars over $12? No, not retail. Is there one with the Perfecto?
No, you're mixing, listen, you're mixing up retail and wholesale prices. Oh, that's right, that's right, it's wholesale pricing. Ah, sorry. Yeah.
I understand, okay. C. Newman cigars will remain legal for sale in California despite the state's new regulatory hurdles. Under Assembly Bill 3218, fourth generation cigar maker Drew Newman says that this is just the latest obstacle The latest obstacle the family's business has faced in its 130-year history, one that includes: World Wars, the Great Depression, Pandemics, Embargos, Tax Hikes, Smoking Bans, and FDA regulation.
The company chose to err on the side of caution, registering nearly every cigar sold in California to protect retailers from being stuck with unsellable inventory. According to Newman, compliance is an optional. It's how the family has survived for four generations. Still, Newman criticizes the UTL program for the unfairly burdening of cigars.
California charges the same $300 fee per product, whether it's a small batch handmade cigar or a mass market producing product selling millions of units with more than 6,800 applications already submitted, the state has collected over $2 million in fees. Already? Already. C.
Newman reaffirms his commitment to brick-and-mortar cigar retailers, emphasizing quality, integrity, and long-term partnerships. We're in the money. C. Newman, just as they have for the past 130 years.
Okay. So they dropped 45,000. 300 times 198. What is that?
Oh, 198. Sorry. 300? Yeah.
Oh, no, it's 168, because there's 35 of them that don't have to be registered. And it's only 300? 300 per. 200 per.
So 50, yeah, 50 grand. Oh. That's nothing for them. 50 Gs, they don't give a shit.
Yeah, they don't care. Drew took that out of his wallet. But it already hit 3 million. Right, yeah, 2 point something million they've already, okay, racked in.
C. Newman, Boots? I mean, if, yeah, if the numbers are correct at the end there, the 2 point whatever million. C.
Newman. C. Newman. They paid $50,000.
Oh, I don't know, man. I don't know what type of business that they do over there. Probably more than $50,000. Easy.
Yeah. So, I mean, yeah. I mean, if it's usually you want it to be, you know, 30%, you know, this cost. So, they just need to rack in $150,000.
They easily do that. Easily, yeah. I mean, they're building that hotel. They just broke ground on the hotel last week that we talked about a couple weeks ago.
C. Newman? Yeah, they're building a whole hotel across the street from the JC Newman place. They're redoing an older one.
But it, I mean, for the picture, it looks like they're building it from scratch almost. Right. So what do you think is going to happen to some of the other brands? Oh, they're going to go what?
Yeah. What do you think? You think it's a good move for JC Newman? What do you think?
Yeah, I mean, $50,000, like we said, it's nothing. Well, as far as the cost is concerned, yeah, we've kind of determined that that's a drop in the bucket for them, and they're going to continue with their sales. Right. And they're the first one, right?
No, no, no, it said they've collected over $2 million, so other people are doing it, too. Yeah, but like the whole complying thing... Yeah, I mean, it sort of sounds like they're... I have an analogy in my head, but it's terrible, so I'm not going to say...
Okay, let me ask you this. If everybody didn't comply... Right. Do you think the government would have walked it back?
" Eventually. I mean, you think California would have walked it back if nobody bought into it? Yeah. I don't think so.
So that you would just see retail stores getting raked over the coals, fines, arrests, all of it. They would do it to just to prove a point. I mean, California is pretty straight down to everything. Right.
So I know if nobody did it, they would still enforce it. Okay. I think that this is going to create a big vacuum where all the legacy brands are going to be fine in those spots and all your boutique things are gone. Right.
S.? No, no, just in California. It's the only place that's going on in California. Do you think that they move it into other states?
I think it's become a big enough problem where no, I don't think they will. I don't think everybody's as delusional as California. No, they have all these other things now. I mean, are there in some parts of California, they're still on COVID regulations where you got to be masked up and stuff?
Really? I think maybe. Wow, that's insane. Five years later?
I think so. Or maybe just the California people are doing it because they're just California people. " But there was one. Right.
I think a lot of our listeners or viewers that are in California feel like that. Probably, because they're cigar people. They want to still be able to get their Room 101's if he hasn't paid. And, you know, their Espinosa's and their Postana's.
Well, SDG's going to pay. Yeah, because Room 101's based out of California. Washington. Oh, Washington.
Yeah. Okay, it's interesting. I, you know, I have some thoughts that, that there are ways of circumventing this rule, you know. I've had a couple shops tell me that they know how to do it, so, you know, don't worry, we're still buying, we figured something out, but I mean, how many guys think they figured it out until, you know, Uncle Sam knocks on the door, or Uncle California, whatever.
The guys with the jackets? Yeah, the guys in the black jackets and the black ties. We're taking all your cigars. We are here for your cigars.
Or $300. I think there's ways around it. We need to see your books. I think there's ways around it.
I'm sure there is. Yeah. I mean, we could ship customers in California. No, and not even that.
I think that there's ways to legitimately... Well, somebody has asked, would you guys still ship us in California? I'm like, until the government knocks on your door and takes them from you. No, I think when that day comes, I'll have a conversation with that retailer as to how I think the right way to proceed with that would be.
Just for the record. Gotcha. Other tobacco industries have circumvented stuff like this before, so. Okay.
We only had 37 minutes? Yep. Wow. All right, it's not going to be 60 or 90 minutes.
What should you be smoking for Hanukkah? For all our Jewish listeners, we have the cigars that you can smoke. The schnitzel. How are all cigars not kosher?
I don't understand that. Right. Well, they have to be blessed by a rabbi, right? Yes.
There are, there is, two of the brands are, there's several, there's five, I think, listed. Two of them are listed as kosher. One of them states that they have a rabbi on staff that watches every aspect of the production to make sure it meets all the rules and standards that are involved in being kosher. That dude's getting paid.
Yeah, the other one just says they are. The ha-la-la-la-la-la. They just say it. Well, we are.
I mean, I thought it was the way they killed the animals and stuff. I don't know how it works into things that grow. Right. I don't know how this works.
Like pickles. Well, pickles have something done to them. So, I mean, I could see that. Maybe there's certain things you can't do to a pickle, but a cucumber, you know, as long as it grows out of the ground, I don't know how that works.
Okay, let's go read it. All right, Hanukkah, also known as the Festival of Lights, is a Jewish holiday that commemorates the rededication It's a tradition of the Second Temple in Jerusalem during the second century BCE, observed for eight nights starting on the 25th day of Kenslev in the Hebrew calendar. The festival involves lighting candles and a nine-branch menorah as Hanukkah approaches on December 14th this year. We've curated a list of kosher cigars and those with Jewish heritage for enthusiasts looking to enjoy and smoke during the festivities.
Apparently we're a day late this happened. Yeah. Okay. Bosner Cigars.
Okay. Excellence with Kosher certification. This one is certified Kosher. The Kosher Cigar Line introduced in 2013 is particularly noteworthy.
Supervised by a rabbi throughout the entire production process. From leaf selection to fermentation, these cigars meet rigorous Kosher standards. Okay. Davidoff, a legacy of Jewish heritage.
Really? Yes. Yes. Zeno Davidoff, born into a Jewish family of tobacconists in Kiev, fled to Switzerland due to political tension and founded the epitomous Davidoff brand.
Oh. So apparently this one is just because he's Jewish. Okay. Torio Cigars, an Israeli connection, founded by Zafi Barzilla and his brother Yiro in 2000.
2000 Torrio Cigars began as an endeavor to bring Nicaraguan Cigars to the new markets. League of Fat Bastards, a story of resilience. Really? Adam Levine, the founder of LFOB, is a descendant of Holocaust survivors.
His grandfather was saved by Oscar Schindler, the famous list. No kidding. Yeah, I thought that was interesting to him. Wow.
Yeah. All right, Senor Solomon Cigars, a kosher staple. Yep. Senior is Spanish.
Senior. Senior or Solomon. Maybe he's Spanish Jew. Found up by Gershon Aziman and Don Kiki Berger.
Right. Senior Solomon Cigars is renowned for its Kosher certified cigars. That was the one I had back in the day. Ah, gotcha.
And then finally, Merifel, behind the scenes of excellence. That would make sense. Yes. For Hanukkah cigars from their propriety line, such as La Estencia, Mastranza, Sanza, or the exclusive Marifel series, Richard, Meir, Heller, and Ernest offer an unparalleled experience.
These cigars blend heritage with innovation, making them a luxurious addition to any celebration. Hanukkah is a time for family reflection and a celebration, whether you choose a kosher certified cigar like Bosner or Senior Salomon or heritage-rich options like Vavidolf and Marifel, these selections offer something special for the occasion. So light a candle, pick your favorite cigar, savor the flavors of tradition and craftsmanship this Hanukkah. Okay, so I asked Grock if all cigars were considered kosher, and it says: "No, not all cigars are considered kosher.
Pure tobacco leaves are inherently kosher as they are a plant product with no inherent cash root issues according to Jewish dietary laws. However, many modern cigars may include additives, flavorings, humectants, or glues that could potentially contain non-kosher ingredients such as animal-derived glycerin or alcohol-based treatments. Ah, so that's why they have to watch all the production. Correct, correct.
I always forget about the secret sauce everybody has, something they spray it with. Not everybody, but yeah, a lot of... I was told everybody. It's not everybody.
Okay. Not everybody has a tobacco. I said okay. Some people just have really good tobacco.
Okay. Yeah. Go on with what you were talking about. We have no secret sauce on ours.
Okay. Roma has no secret sauce. No. They just have good tobacco.
Okay. They have great tobacco. And Skip's now gonna weigh in. Yeah.
Yeah, he's gonna weigh in. Sorry, he's replacing me, so it doesn't matter. Just one. Before you get to the next story, did you see that law did a beautiful thing?
Did you see that Law did a beautiful post, you know, thanking Davidoff for his- Yes, I did see most of it. So he talked about, like, it was some type of acknowledgement award from Davidoff? Yes. Like, appreciation award.
Most miles driven? No, there was just an appreciation. Certificate of appreciation. For all your hard work.
Okay. Did he get anything? Piece of paper? I have to admit, I didn't watch the entire video.
I did. Okay, well, then probably not, probably just a certificate. I know that, I think Jack brought him over a box of cigars. Oh, Jack Heyer?
Yeah. Because all he's allowed to smoke are Zenos. Oh, it was a Davidoff box. Oh, there you go then.
Full of Zenos, that'd be funny. So you think that's what he got? Was a box of Davidoffs? One box?
It looked expensive. How many years has he been there? How many years has he been there? Three, four?
I feel bad, I don't know. He looked tired in the video. He always looks tired. Yeah?
I didn't think that. Well, not when he was here because he had a chance to rest, but his online stuff, it's always six hours into my 72 hour drive to get out to, you know. It's brutal. I don't know.
It's good. I don't know how he does all that. I don't either, and married. 72 hours.
I mean, it's easy at this point because this is all she's known. Right. Like, my first wife, it wasn't a problem at all because, well, no, that was the one that had the problem, because when I married her, I didn't do all the traveling, and then I started traveling for work, and then that's where the things sort of fell apart. Got it.
Second wife, she came in, the traveling was all I was doing, so as I traveled through that marriage, she liked when I wasn't home. Right. So. Why are you home?
Yeah, why are you home? I thought you weren't going to be out of town. Right. What happened?
Yeah. You got to get this guy out of here. Right. Jumping out the back door.
Oh, shit. That's funny. Okay, all right, so what's the next story? Uh, we have, what's the score?
There's a theme song now, but he screwed it up yesterday, so. Oh yeah? He just did it as a rhyme, it said in the direction, sing to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Oh, he whistled.
How can he whistle and talk at the same time? He didn't talk, he whistled. You know, like it's Twinkle Twinkle, so what it'd be? The score, the score.
Got it. Screwed that up. Palmer, how do you do it? Yeah.
I don't remember the words. And you didn't have it saved on there? No, I didn't save it. It's just for the guests, not for me.
Oh. Geez. February 26, 2022, reviewed by Patrick LaGrid. Oh, no, this is, what?
It reads funny. February 26, 2022, Patrick LaGrid. Well, you built it. Well, it says Patrick LaGrid cigars.
Okay. Costa Rica El Septimo reviews El Septimo Sacred Arts Collection Leonardo da Vinci. So it's an El Septimo Sacred Arts, Leonardo da Vinci, and Patrick is the reviewer. Okay, I went for it yesterday, so.
El Septimo. Who won yesterday? I did. Just asking.
Don't get all upset. El Septimo. Let's go 75. It's the El Septimo Sacred Arts Collection Leonardo da Vinci.
Everything's sacred in El Septimo. 80. Okay, not that it makes a difference, but this was the first El Septimo to ever be reviewed. all right el septimo sacred arts uh leonardo da vinci from costa rica uh factory el septimo wrapper undisclosed binder undisclosed filler undisclosed length undisclosed no seven and a half by 40 it's a lancero 20 cigar they smoked three how is the length undisclosed then he just said seven and a half by 40 yeah i was joking because everything else before that was oh now Wow, I'm funny.
75. I'm still at 80. Clue number one, flavor, complexity, and transition. The Leonardo Da Vinci delivers an encouraging journey, especially early on, with standout notes of cherry, milk chocolate, orange peel, and that old-fashioned-like aroma.
That's just a nondescript smell. I think this was before Prince Al-Bubois owned the company. Oh, he didn't always own it? He didn't always own it?
I don't think so. I think he bought it. Can he name it Leonardo da Vinci? Yeah, I don't think Leonardo's family has any problems with it.
I don't think there's any left. He's a figure in history. The way the profile evolves from dessert-like richness to pepper, earth, and creamy finish. Wait, did we guess on that?
No, this is also the same comment. He interrupted me in the middle. Oh, sorry. The way the profile evolves from dessert-like richness to pepper, earth, and creamy finish Keeps the Cigar interesting from start to finish.
Now I'm done. 75. 85. Oh, he went up.
Clue number two. Overall construction and feel. The cigar is well rolled with the flat seams, a clean cap, consistent firmness, and a wrapper that shows good oil and sheen. For most of the smoke, the burn line stays even and the draw, particularly on the best sample, is exactly what you want from a Lancero-style Vitola.
Boots, 82, 87, clue number three, consistency issues between samples, flavor, and combustion vary more than expected across the three cigars. Some samples lean rich and layered, while others skew dry and pepper forward. Here we go. And Intermittent Combustion and Smoke Production Issues in the latter half detract from what is otherwise a refined and thoughtful blended cigar.
Eighty. Eighty-five. All right. Final thought, gentlemen.
This is where the money becomes double and all points are final. All right. The El Septimo Sacred Arts Collection, Leonardo da Vinci, could have given me more of what the first third of the first sample gave me. I have to think this cigar would have received one of the highest scores I've ever given a cigar.
I'm still not sure what to make of it, whether my palate was just hypersensitive that day, or if that cigar was simply an outlier among its peers. Regardless, the process calls for entirety of all three samples to be considered, and while not as great as the one section, there is still a good amount of light. As noted above, the smoky, old-fashioned note was a lot more consistent, as well as he transitioned from a sweeter, more complex first half to a simpler, more robust profile in the second third. I definitely prefer that first half, but the second half is still enjoyable and could be a good complement to a number of beverages, if that's your thing.
Construction and combustion were decent, but not perfect, and probably cost the cigar a point or two due to tight draw and some burn issues in the second third. So if you decide to smoke this cigar, I'd consider giving it a bit of a dry boxing before smoking if possible. Overall, this is enjoyable smoke and one of the better cigars I've smoked from the El Septimo portfolio. So?
87. He's very sure of himself. He just shot up there. Yeah.
Did you look it up? No, I didn't look it up. You were sleeping, so you'll never know. I was just closing my eyes.
I got like an eye infection. Oh. Uh oh. Close your eyes, Palmer.
We don't want to catch it. Gotta wear an eye patch. Wear an eye patch. 87 is a tough one.
I have a lot of pirate jokes. It's an allergy-induced conjunctivitis. Still need an eye patch. That's exactly what Jack Sparrow said.
Hide the rum. Hide the rum. Do I think it's lower than 87? Exactly what the parrot said before they put the eye patch on him.
Huh? It's what the parrot said before they put the eye patch on the parrot. Hide the rum. Do I think it's an 88?
He liked it. He liked it. He wanted to give it better. I'm going to go 88.
I wanted to give it better. I'm going to go 88. You want to reconsider? Boots won, 85.
Yes, twinkle twinkle sucker. I was at 85 the whole time. I know it. This is the first one I hit on the head.
No, you said 87. No, get excited. You didn't hit anything. Oh, what was the number?
85. Oh, I won. This is the first one I didn't hit on the head. Yeah.
Wow. Yes. And we're not doing the second one. Yep.
Just one. It's a minigame. Damn it. Okay.
All right. It's been exit, been exit, been episode 432, I believe, of a Cigar Hustlers podcast. Make sure you like and subscribe. com.
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Show Notes
Now On Todays Show
Knowbody wanna work, Best places to spend Christmas in the USA, A silent visitor from outer space swings bye earth, then in cigars someone finally gets their own lounge, JC Newman plans a California vacation, we have the best cigars for Hanukkah then we roll into a special what’s The Score Mini Game>