ACHP Episode 417 Turkey, Toys, Movies and Sports

Episode Summary

Episode 417 of A Cigar Hustler's Podcast finds Mike Palmer, Mikey Stefanovich and engineer "Mr. Booty" running through the day's trending news before getting into the cigar business headlines. The lighter first half covers grocery chains slashing Thanksgiving turkey prices as a loss-leader loyalty play (and the hosts' skepticism at the American Farm Bureau's $55.18 dinner-for-ten figure), Netflix reportedly being willing to break its no-theatrical-release rule in order to land Warner Bros. Discovery, consumer groups warning parents about AI-enabled toys after researchers got a chatbot teddy bear to discuss inappropriate topics, and the NBA and NFL both eyeing major European expansion — a four-team NFL European division and a proposed 16-team NBA-backed European league in 2027.

On the cigar side, the crew reacts to the Boutique Cigar Association announcing it will dissolve after a unanimous board vote. Palmer, who was on the BCA's original 2017 board, talks candidly about why a second organization duplicating PCA advocacy for sub-500,000-cigar makers struggled to justify itself, the mixed results of the BCA pavilion at the PCA trade show, and what happens to the group's sampler and website. They also break down the Tabacalera USA shuffle: Brad Winston adding CEO duties at Casa de Montecristo and Santa Clara, Nicholas Maslowski moving up to CEO of JR Cigar, and what the reshuffle says about competition from Cigars International and Cigar Page in brick-and-mortar retail.

The centerpiece is the release of the Powstanie War Bear 2025 — the "War Bear of Mass Destruction." Palmer details the 5 7/8 x 60 perfecto, the barber-pole Ecuadorian Habano and Mexican San Andrés wrapper, Indonesian binder, Dominican and Nicaraguan fillers, production at Fabrica de Tabacos NicaSueño in Estelí, the 1,000-box release of eight-count boxes at $25 per cigar, and the U.S.-made Cerakoted metal box sleeve that mounts on a wall. He responds directly to media questions about why this War Bear costs roughly double previous editions, arguing that packaging, quality and the brand's ten-year anniversary justify a price that's still modest next to $60–$150 limited editions from other brands.

Rounding things out: an update on the California unflavored tobacco list (UTL) lawsuit and the Attorney General's response arguing the state legislature — not the AG — defined "premium cigar," a critique of Guy Fieri's low-budget announcement video for the Knuckle Sandwich Off Menu cigar, a new Moneymakers betting pick segment, and two rounds of "What's the Score" guessing halfwheel review scores for the Weller by Cohiba 2025 (86) and the Caldwell x Drew Estate All Out Kings Smash (90).

In This Episode

1. 01
   Thanksgiving Grocery Deals as a Marketing Play
   Why Walmart, Aldi and other chains sell turkey below wholesale — and why the hosts don't buy the Farm Bureau's $55 dinner-for-ten claim.
2. 02
   Netflix, Warner Bros. Discovery and the Theater Question
   Netflix may put films in theaters to make its WBD bid more palatable, sparking a debate about whether moviegoing is dying or due for a resurgence.
3. 03
   AI Toys and Holiday Safety Warnings
   Consumer groups warn parents about AI-enabled toys after researchers got a chatbot teddy bear to discuss inappropriate topics with kids.
4. 04
   NBA and NFL European Expansion
   The NFL eyes a four-team European division while the NBA pitches a 16-team European league for 2027 — and the hosts note cigars still can't ship to Europe.
5. 05
   Guy Fieri's Knuckle Sandwich Off Menu Announcement
   The crew critiques the production quality of Fieri's video announcing the 6x54 box-pressed toro with Pennsylvania broadleaf wrapper.
6. 06
   Boutique Cigar Association Dissolves
   After a unanimous board vote the BCA is shutting down, and Palmer — an original board member — explains why a second advocacy group never found its lane.
7. 07
   Tabacalera USA Leadership Shakeup
   Brad Winston takes over Casa de Montecristo and Santa Clara while Nicholas Maslowski becomes CEO of JR Cigar, and what it means for retail competition.
8. 08
   Powstanie War Bear of Mass Destruction 2025
   The 5 7/8 x 60 barber-pole perfecto, its Cerakoted metal box sleeve, 1,000-box run and the $25 price point Palmer defends on air.
9. 09
   California UTL Lawsuit Update
   The Attorney General's office argues the legislature defined premium cigars and that compliance costs aren't crippling — bad signs for the industry's case.
10. 10
    What's the Score
    Guessing halfwheel scores for the Weller by Cohiba 2025 and the Caldwell x Drew Estate All Out Kings Smash.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

Welcome to Cigar Houser Podcast, Episode 417, your daily dose of trending news and cigar information. I'm one of your hosts, Mike Palmer, and back with us in engineering is Mr. Booty over there We're pushing the buttons. Bing bong.

On today's podcast, we hit the biggest stories you need to know. Thanksgiving grocery discounts that aren't what they seem. Netflix making a surprising move to chase Warner Brothers Discovery. Ooh.

AI toys causing major safety concerns for parents. The NBA and the NFL chasing massive European expansion. Big shakeup at JR Cigar, Casa de Monte Cristo, and Santa Clara. The Postaña War Bear of Mass Destructions officially drops and the media has questions.

Really? Updates on the California UTL lawsuit, plus today's round of What's the Score, and always we have a listener of the week. Yes. Before we get started, let me introduce the man who is on every show, Mikey, I get the better camera and backdrop to Stefan Kevich.

Mikey, how can you get some of that CHPod swag? com and check out our latest swag. The War Bear shirt is available, the blackout hat is not available, but we still have other pieces of apparel. I think it's a lot of fun.

I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun.

I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun.

I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun.

I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun.

I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's a lot of fun. And since we're kind of getting in, we're leaning towards your Christmas spirit, you remember a Christmas story?

Yeah. Where the guy has to do the decoder. Right. And you know, he worked so hard to get everything, he gets to the decoder, and it's drink more Ovaltine.

Drink more Ovaltine, right. That's what's going to happen. It was like, YouTube shop! And what's changed?

Nothing! Once we get there, if they drop off, does the ability to do it drop off too? I don't know. Don't go away.

I don't know. And shop is on, and shop is off, and shop is on. Right, within a week's time. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

Oh, no, no, no. Who knows, man? So is it a 365 calendar year? Do we have, like, until December 31st?

No, it's constantly rolling. Constantly rolling. So no reset. No, but it ekes up closer and closer every couple days.

Like, it updates every two days. Right. It's like, eek, eek, eek, eek, eek, eek. And all of our stuff is definitely trending in the right direction.

Yeah, I looked this morning. All the analytics are up. Yeah, tremendously. And you guys, if you haven't watched that Pete Johnson interview, man, We got some great feedback on that, so go back and- A lot of views in the last week.

Yeah, check out that Pete- On YouTube. Yeah. He's not as popular on Rumble. No.

Michael Herklots is popular on Rumble. Interesting. Very weird. But yeah, go watch the Pete Johnson interview.

It was a great interview. I think it was the best interview. It was the greatest interview of all time. The best Pete Johnson you've ever seen?

Yeah. It was really good. And- The important thing is, he's happy with it. Yeah, yeah.

That's always nice. Yeah. And what are we doing for the Patreon, buddy? We are smoking the Belgian Blue from Crown Heads.

Yes. Hold it up in your little hands. Dun, dun, dun. Good?

Yep. Yep, it's already available on the site. Oakley Doakley. And I'm excited to smoke this one.

And I just took everything off, and I'm going to tell you what it weighs. That's not how I normally do things. 6 grams. 6 grams.

With everything off of it? Yeah, it feels okay. It does feel okay. And I got a couple things to talk about on the Patreon as well, so looking forward to that.

Check out our Patreon, Cigar Hustlers Podcast, Patreon. A Cigar Hustlers Podcast. A Cigar Hustlers Podcast. Yeah, he's important.

Okay. All right, now on to our first story. Grocery chains are discounted Thanksgiving meals to earn your loyalty. It's mainly just a marketing scam.

Grocery stores are pulling it fast when the It's Thanksgiving and honestly I kind of respect the hustle. They're slashing turkey prices like crazy hoping you'll fall in love with them forever. Meanwhile, inflation is still tearing through grocery aisles like a pack of teenagers joyriding in those motorized scooter carts. Here's the truth, it's mostly a marketing play.

Food costs are still up 29% since pre-pandemic days but the big chains are hoping that giving you a tiny little holiday breather will keep you loyal and some of them are literally eating the cost to make it happen. 97 a pound. It's like gas. Oh, wow.

That's not charity. That's strategy. A couple of highlights: Aldi is rolling out a $40 Thanksgiving bundle with a 14 pound turkey and all the fixings for 10 people. It's $7 cheaper than last year.

It's like a kit? It's a kit. Oh, I love that. I need to tell my wife.

She's going shopping today. Walmart is keeping its holiday dinner bundle the same price as last year, around $4 a person, but they quietly removed a few items from the package. Oh, sneaky, sneaky, sneaky, sneaky, maybe no cranberries, no celery, it's a waste, sweet potato gone, it's just sweet potato cake now, not pie. The bigger picture, the American Farm Bureau says a traditional Thanksgiving dinner for 10 clocks in at about, you guys like the guests?

We have guests a lot on the show. For $10? Yes. Who is it?

For the show, Thanksgiving dinner for $10. Oh. Average cost. Average cost.

Probably like, I want to say $270. We're just talking about material? Yeah, no party favors, no turkey hats. No labor or anything?

No labor. My wife, we don't pay my wife to cook the dinner. It works for free. So it's free, okay.

Well, it's an exchange. How much did you say, Mikey? He said $200 and something. $270.

$270. $270. I'll go $250. You would think it would be that high, wouldn't you?

18 this year. For 10 people. That's it. 10 people.

Basic meal. I know. Where are they shopping? That is complete horseshit.

Because I got news for you. First of all, we got our turkey at Costco, and it was 99 cents a pound. Right. Okay, but it was, you know, a 20 pound turkey?

You know what they're including in that probably? Turkey, stuffing, and green beans. That's probably all you're getting. So that'll feed about 10, that feeds like 10 people, and then, you know, there's no way, I'm gonna tell you, our Costco bill was not $55.

Yeah, my wife's going for four, five, six, and she's not gonna spend it. What kind of delusional, who writes this sort of thing? Probably from the National Farm Bureau. 52 a head, down 5% from last year, but still about $5?

Dude, I can't, I know, how do you eat for $5? I can't feed anybody for $5. I just, You spent $8 at Circle K for energy drinking a pizza. Well, did you get the Thanksgiving pizza?

Maybe it was cheap. Did it have turkey on it? I guess if they're turkey, it's cheaper, huh? It's 13% more than back in 2019.

So yeah, your turkey might be cheaper, but don't be fooled. The grocery bill is still winning the war. " Well, the turkey don't cost nothing. Well, I mean, turkey's still expensive.

I think it's the cheapest part of the meal though. At this point, like that was the attract sequence, it's the, uh, what's it, lost leader? The lost leader is the turkey. Come buy this turkey.

Come buy the turkey, I give you green beans. $75 for green beans. $75 worth of green beans. So if I pay an extra 20 bucks to upgrade the turkey, do I get a turducken?

Do you want the deluxe? You want the deluxe turkey? I want the turducken, yeah. You want the turducken?

The turkey with the duck shoved up its ass? Yeah. I just want to survive Thanksgiving at this point. You know, this is a hard time of year for nothing against you, Palmer.

It's always a hard time of year for everybody. But if you got kids, I have kids. I mean, like kids in school, like this is hard because they're out of school. Yeah.

And when did that happen? When did that become a thing? Because I don't remember that. Last time I checked, Wednesday for us was the last day of school.

Yeah. You maybe went to school on Wednesday. And then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Then you had Thursday, Friday off.

Yeah. It was like a long weekend. These fuckers got the whole week. They got the whole week, right.

Yeah. I left, I will pray for my wife, because I left, and there was three additional kids in our house. Oh. We had a sleepover.

You picked up extras. We had a sleepover last night, and one even said. So a daycare. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You guys aren't on my tax return. One even said. Wait, did we have three more kids? What happened?

No. Look, I'm not against it. What did one say? One even said, I'm going to stay up and wait and see, watch the elves move.

The elves on the shelf, they come to our house a little early, like we get going, they like to check on the kids. So these kids are plotting. So not only, I don't know if I mentioned this, but the elves, we had two elves. Right.

I think you mentioned it last week. We brought an extra elf. An extra elf has now come. Oh, no, no, you said you had Snoop.

Yes, Snoop on the stoop. Snoop on the stoop is now here. Snoop on the stoop. There it is.

Yes. So is there four total? There's three. There's three, so there's two elves and a Snoop.

Snoop on the Stoop. Oh, it's like a reverse order. I'm sorry. It's a reverse order, yeah.

I just want you to know. Slid in some racism. Congratulations. I don't control the clips anymore.

I just let them go. I just let them go right now. Oh, man. So, yeah, you know.

But, like, for me, I love all that. Like, as far as kids come to the house, I know they're safe. We let them do whatever the hell they want for the most part. It's just a be reasonable kind of approach.

Yeah, within these walls. Wait, you skipped part of the story. Did he make it up all night? No.

No. No, he did not. They're children. " Well, you know, he's got energy drinks hidden outside in the fridge in the garage.

Maybe the kid got into some of those. They're pounding the Red Bulls. They're holding the G-Shocks or whatever they're called. The elves are very magical.

They wait. They wait it out. Well, the elves probably put the melatonin in the energy drinks. No, no, we don't do melatonin anymore.

We can't do melatonin anymore. Melatonin's bad for you. It's bad for you. You guys just crack at this point.

Long time usage is damaged to children's. Getting jacks off that was, like, removing it. Like he's on heroin. Yeah, exactly.

That's what I was going to say. " Apparently, you're not allowed to have melatonin ever again. " But we have this other stuff that's kinda like melatonin. What should I do?

" Whatever you do, don't do what Palmer did and do the Afrin. The Afrin is bad. Well, yeah, don't do it. The Afrin doesn't help you sleep.

Yeah. No, no, that's the nose clear. Yeah, it can't clear up the nose. Yeah.

Okay. Hmm. All right, next up, Netflix. Netflix.

Netflix. Netflix would reportedly break its biggest The biggest rule to buy Warner Brothers, according to a Bloomberg report, Netflix is willing to distribute WBD, which is Warner Brothers Discovery, movies in theaters if it successfully buys the entertainment giant. Netflix has long resisted putting its film in theaters, preferring to release them directly on its streaming service, though it has made exceptions for certain movies to qualify for award consideration. The move would make Netflix bid to purchase WBD more palatable per Bloomberg WBD.

put itself up for sale last month, drawing interest from Paramount, Skydance, and Comcast, in addition to Netflix, Comcast, and Netflix, are reportedly only interested in acquiring WBD's studio and streaming business, while Paramount would likely want the whole enterprise. We'll take the whole thing. We'll take the whole thing. Paramount's making some moves.

Huh. Well, Netflix makes all those movies just for the service, so if they buy this, they can put them out in theater. So that doesn't make any sense, though, Because, I mean, when was the last time you went to the theater, Mikey? Two weeks ago.

Two weeks ago? What did you see? Stitch Head. I don't even know what that is.

Yeah, it's a kid movie. Oh. Oh, so you just go see the kid movies in the theater? That would make sense.

You know, I would like to go to the movies. Like, I wanted to see Predator. I wanted to see Running Man. Oh, I didn't want to see that, too.

You know? Yeah. But the reality is, when, man? When?

Right. I mean, I don't have kids running around, and I still can't go by myself. Yeah, why not? When do I have time?

Yeah. It's tough. Yeah, so that's why I'm kind of getting at. Like, why put movies in the movie theater when that's not really, you know, the thing?

Like, why not market with Apple, you know, and come out with movies quicker than you do on Netflix or, you know, whatever? Well, they compete with Apple. They wouldn't want to put their movie on Apple also. But, I mean, they compete with Warner Bros.

I don't know, man. I think it's all kind of cyclical, to be honest. I think that right now it's kind of in a dip, but I think that it trends in the right direction. But I think that it trends in the right direction.

My kids are all of a sudden like, hey, let's go to the movies. Hey, you know, like that's happening a little bit more. You know, I think that within the next five or ten years, you're gonna see more of a resurgence for movies and movie theaters. Oh, you think so?

I do. I do. It becomes like a safe kind of pastime, you know. You don't think with the cost of a home theaters coming down that it becomes something more you do at home?

No, I think that that happens too, but what happens? You watch the movies and all, and you watch, hey, let's go out. Hey, let's go, let's go do something. Yeah, Adrienne hates going to the theater, so she never wants to go.

Well, they did just redo the Del Sano one, so maybe, you know, maybe that changes. Oh, the one over that sits by itself? The Epic, yeah. Did they redo it?

Yeah, they redid it. It wasn't that old. They put like 4D in it, and they put new reclining chairs, new screens. I do like the app, where I can just place my order, and not have to deal with the line, and just scoop up my stuff.

That's awesome. Right, we'll walk right through. Yeah, so I'll go to Theater 7. Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, I mean, I have gone to the movies. Oh, you guys have a nice one over by you two, though. Altamont, right? We go to, we go past that one.

Where do you go? We go to Winter Park Regal. Oh, Winter Park, yeah. Yeah.

Winter Park. Yes. Better than the Altamont. They have a, they have a bar.

I don't think they have a bar at Altamont. I think they have the bar at Winter Park. I think they do. They have a bar both now.

I both. Altamont 18, yeah. Can't you get food there too or something and have it delivered to your seat or something? I don't know.

Been a while since I've been to that one. I like the Epic one. That one's pretty nice. So yeah, I mean, it makes sense to acquire.

I think it makes sense to acquire. Yeah. Yeah, you gobble things up. Where's the closest theater that the chairs move and everything?

Is that Disney? Well, for us, that would be Daytona. Oh, is there one in Daytona? Daytona 1, yeah.

Oh, Daytona 1, yeah. Regal moves. Altamont has some that moves. There's a film that moves.

They're practically everywhere at this point. Oh, are they? Yeah. Well, now Epic has those.

You know, what's funnier, though, is like, so for Stitchhead, we rented the movie theater out for like the birthday party. And so at least I get to hang out with some dads. And like when you reel the thing back, the chair reclines, it goes... and like makes it like a squeaky sound.

So what I would do is as soon as I'd hit it, I'd stare at one of my friends and just lower it. And then like raise it. They get you too comfortable. I fall asleep sometimes.

It's amazing. If they're not, they're not, kids aren't going anywhere, you take a little nappy poo. Can't they run out? I mean, if it's a bunch of kids.

Same scenario, like be reasonable. My kids know, like they have a ton of freedom, they have a ton of freedom, but they also know that if they mess it up, it is taken away without an empty threat. Well, in your case, I'd be more concerned with the other children. No, no, it's like the banana theory, you know how like you go for the banana, then you get hosed.

Remember the scientific study where you hose, and then all of a sudden you start replacing the apes, and they know that they can't go up the ladder. They don't know why, but you can't go up the ladder. It's the same thing. My kids are like, whoa.

Oh, they keep the other kids in check. Don't do it. Hey, hey, don't do that, man. Listen.

Well, he said there was other dads. They could keep the watch while he's got a little nap. But I also like to set the precedence with the other dads because sometimes the other dads will ride them a little bit harder when they're in the theater. I'm like, hey, listen.

Here are the rules. My kids got this. They can't go under the curtains. Right.

For the theater. And they can't leave the theater. Yeah. Like, other than that, let them be kids.

Right. Oh, so they can run around inside the theater. Oh my God, yeah. It's all our theater at that point.

Yeah, yeah. There's nobody else sitting in there. There isn't enough opportunities for kids just to be kids. Right?

That's true. And I'm like, they are safe. They're in this room. Like, let them have a good time.

" No, they just leave it. And then I just, I tip the ushers. Oh, do you really? Yeah, that's a nice deal.

Yeah, 'cause they're about to clean up some stuff. I'm like, hey, look, you know what? And you know what's funny, too, is they're like, it's fine, man. The place is always a disaster.

I'm like, it's, yeah, okay, but this is my disaster. Right, right. So. Hmm.

That's nice of you. I like to take care of people. Boots, we should get tipped for doing a podcast. Hell no.

You know, it's always a disaster in here afterwards. It's always a disaster in here afterwards. You guys always leave. Leave your shit everywhere, so.

Oh, well, I ask, though. I do ask. Look, if you want to... You don't want me to say no.

If you want to, if you want to take abuses, you're going to have to be my friend. And that's, that's the problem. Welcome to my, being my friend. When you're out, outer realm, life is good.

When you see, when I suck you in a little bit closer, it's miserable. All right. Now with the holiday getting closer, consumer groups warn parents of the dangers of AI toys. And this to the list of things parents need to be concerned about in between lice and an imaginary friend resembling Victoria's child that inhabited their home 150 years ago.

I like how they compare it to lice. AI Toys, a recent report by the Public Interest Research Group found that some AI Toys it tested were quick to discuss inappropriate topics with minors. Oh, good. 0 chatbot model was used to power Singapore-based Float Toy, suspended its relationship with the company after researchers were able to get the toy maker's teddy bear to discuss sexual fetishes and give instructions about how to light a match.

Oh, where to find knives in the home. Oh, it's turned completely Chucky on them. Here's what you got to do. Get a match and a knife, I'll tell you where they're at.

How do we feel about mommy? Now take off your pants. Did mommy let you do what you wanted to use? It's like sexual fetishes.

Jesus. Oh, wow. Now I was going a different direction. Acts of violence or something.

No, Teddy Ruxpin, no. No, Teddy, no. Oh, my God. He's burning mommy and stabbing her in the, you know what, If you weren't already scared enough, here comes Teddy Ruxman again.

There comes Teddy Ruxman. Consumer Advocacy Group Fair Play issued its own warning yesterday urging parents to avoid buying AI-enabled toys this holiday season. The group accuses the toys of preying on children's trust, disrupting their relationships, and invading privacy. A decade ago, Fair Play led the campaign against a Wi-Fi connected talking Barbie doll, accusing it of recording children's conversations.

Mattel announced a partnership with OpenAI in June, but hasn't released specific plans for the tech. All warnings are coming fast. The safety and privacy concerns come, as researchers warn that teens are dangerously using the technology for therapy. Okay.

What is the toy this year? I mean, do kids still play with toys? It's all electronics. I have no idea.

For my age group, for my six-year-old that's now seven, I think it's like Pet Alive. What? Oh, are you doing the 6-7? Because you just said it.

I don't understand the whole concept. Me neither. What is the toy? Something about a pet?

It's called Pet Alive. So is an AI pet? It's like a, yeah, it's like a plastic toy, but it moves like a real pet. Why don't you just get him a real pet?

He has a dog. I don't want those. Yeah, I was against the dog. Why not?

He's got the coolest cat I've ever met. I don't know, man, I got a pretty cool cat. Well, I haven't had any interaction with the cat. You know, I was very, very negative about the cat.

Now you like the cat. Listen, man, it's cool at first, but you're going to get sick of it, I promise you. Why? Because he's going to get in your way, and he's just going to be a problem.

He's going to act like he's throwing up in the middle of the night when you're trying to get sleep. Yeah, it's like, you want to just kick the thing across the room at that point. It's like, dude, for years you've been trying to throw something up and you never do it. Like, why are you in my fucking room?

Will your cat run out if you open the door? Uh, the patio. But will he try to leave the house? What about the front door?

What if the front door opens? He has yet to attempt to leave through the front. Oh, just wait till you get on that safari. His cat used to be a street cat, so it doesn't want to go outside.

Yeah, well, he would jump out out front, and then he would realize what the fuck he did. Oh, shit, I'm on the street again. Back in the house. There are four or three squares in this place.

This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Oh, my God. You get chased by a dog.

Yeah, so I don't know what other toys are kind of in demand. I just know the pedal. Well, that's an AI toy. It's a plastic dog that acts like a dog.

I can tell you that we do like a catalog thing. We like Teddy and Justice and Jack's, well, Jack's kind of older now, but we would just bust out the Target ad thing and they would circle a couple of things that they want. Yeah, Teddy circled a whole damn catalog. Like this, this, this.

Yeah. So she wrote a thank you card to Santa yesterday. Oh! Yeah, like in advance.

In advance. She knows what he's bringing. Thank you so much for the gifts. And there's a list of 17, 18 different gifts.

Well, he's bringing the whole UPC. Yeah. " All of them. All of them.

Now, what all of them? She knows. She's advising him to ship early because he might need a second sleigh. She's testing the waters of Santa.

What she doesn't understand is inflation's getting to Santa's world this year. That's right, a little bit of... You know, you know, Teddy, get her frozen turkey. I had to lay off a couple of those elves, so you're not getting all the toys this year.

You should write her back, write her back a letter. I'm sorry, I can't give you that many, the sleigh's not big enough. Thank you for the thank you letter. Thank you for the thank you letter.

But Santa's making some cutbacks. Santa had to repair the sleigh. You heard of inflation? Yes, Santa's got some extra overhead this year.

Mrs. Santa needed lipo, and I had to send Snoop to you. Mrs. Claus is on Zepbound.

Trying to lose a little weight there. All right, turning to sports. The NBA and the NFL are basically house hunting in Europe now, looking to build second homes across the Atlantic and cash in on a whole new market. Both leagues smashed revenue records last season.

3 billion. Yeah. Yeah. The NFL will hit $23 billion, and of course, instead of being happy with that, they're already enjoying the next big score.

The NFL plan a full-blown European division. The NFL has been flirting with Europe since 2007, flying teams over for international games, packing stadiums, and yes, somehow making the Jaguars look like a global ambassador. This year, they held a record seven international games, six of them in Europe, and now the rumor mill is humming. According to Pro Football Talk, the NFLPA is gearing up for a major push toward a four-team European division.

Instead of relocating four existing teams, don't worry, Jacksonville fans, the league might just create new expansion teams, and before all that, the league wants to bump the cap on international games from 10 to 16 in the next CBA. They just had their first ever game in Spain, and Goodall acted like he found the fountain of youth. We will be back. We are excited.

The NBA plans go big or go home. The NBA isn't messing around. They're already talking about launching an entire 16-team European league in 2027. They've got JPMorgan Chase and the Rainey Group out hunting for investors and are already pitching sovereign wealth funds, private equity, and rich families who want to say they own a piece of the NBA team without actually owning any NBA team.

While Europe, the continent has a $50 billion sports market, and basketball currently makes up less than half of 1% of it. Huge upside, even the Euro League, Europe's biggest basketball league, is growing, but it's nowhere near NBA money. The big picture, Europe has fewer NBA fans overall, but the fans they do have are younger, hungrier, and glued to the North. Sound like you were about to say something.

S. are down. As far as NBA is concerned, the flopping is obnoxious. I honestly believe that the sports betting is getting the better of all of us.

Well, maybe it's another reason to go to Europe. Yeah, they just make the pie bigger. Right. Yeah, meanwhile, we can't send cigars to Europe.

Right. That's bad. That's bad. Wild.

Okay, what do you think? Are you excited about NBA expansion into Europe? When you visit Germany, are you going to stop by and see your favorite NBA team as well? When you go to your favorite club, Mr.

Booty? No. No? You're not excited about the expansion?

No, I just don't see how this does anything. Like, okay, first of all, it's 32 teams. Okay. It's going to be a lot harder if you're expanding the NBA.

You'd have to do a separate league, right? Because when it comes to how people are in standings and where they go in playoff brackets and all that kind of stuff, it just doesn't make sense to go too many more teams, like maybe a couple. Well, they talked about building a whole new league. Yeah, it'd be a separate league.

So, yeah, so if you're in a separate league, I mean, it's good, but why don't you just buy like the China league that's already huge? Or why don't you buy the FIBA league that's humongous? Because that's all international, I mean. Seems like it would be cheaper to start your own.

Yeah, you think you can buy China's league? China's. Yeah. China ain't gonna sell that, they want it.

I mean, China sells everything to us on fuckin' loan, so why not? Oh, you think so? Yeah. Is there a Chinese basketball league?

Oh yeah, it's huge. Allen Iverson was one of the biggest players of all time over there. Did the money makers make a wager on the Chinese league this week? No.

No? I don't. The Winchun Dragons I do not wager on. You don't like them?

Do you want to do a Money Leagues Pick of the Week every Monday? We should. I want to get a recap moneymaker of this week. Did we finish in the positive this week?

Yeah, I won 300. I lost 250. So you made 50 bucks. 50 bucks.

Okay. All right. Last night was really hard with Baker. Oh, yeah.

That's tough. All right. Well, what's the moneymaker pick of the week? Do you have a pick?

Wait. Full disclaimer. Well, you guys are for the record. Just for the record.

Yeah, we are not condoning gambling by any means. Yeah, we're not condoning. If you have a problem, contact Gamblers Anonymous. Yeah, 888 admit it.

And also, this is Boots we're talking about here. He is definitely not an expert when it comes to betting. We are not affiliated with any sports betting. Yeah.

Go ahead. Go ahead now. Boots pick of the week. Duncan Robinson.

No, wait. Moneymakers pick of the week. Yeah, money. Oh, we're just going to go straight to the group, huh?

Moneymakers pick. They're going to love this. I'm going to make them all watch these episodes now. Good.

We need 80 more viewing hours. Yeah, there you go. 5 points, over. Over.

5 points? Correct. That's how that works? Yep.

I know nothing about betting. I don't know. I don't know. When is that game?

Tonight. Okay. Oh. Oh, well, this goes up tomorrow.

It's not going to work. It's not going to work. Oh, so what I'll start doing is I'll start looking ahead. All right, we're fine-tuning this.

Okay, so, but at least we can review for next week, and we can know that if he won or if he lost. Right, there we go. Okay. Okay, Duncan Robinson.

I'm gonna check that out. We will add this in mid-show starting next week. Yes. Perfect.

Moneymakers. Moneymakers pick of the week. But you have to have something that died on Monday night. Okay.

Yes. You need a Tuesday night. Yeah, this gets released on Tuesday, so I need a Tuesday night. Yeah, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, any of those nights.

Okay. All right. Okay. So he made 50 bucks.

So he's in the black. Allegedly, $50. Allegedly, $50. Yeah.

Baker Mayfield didn't bake. No. He's, you know. So that's you personally.

Do the moneymakers bet as a group also? Oh, so we went over this, right? I don't remember. We collaborate, and we come up with who we think are the best picks for the night.

Right. And for football, we do early lines. So like, we're already starting to do our stuff for Thursday nights. 'Cause the lines, so how the lines are is they'll say, let's say Baker Mayfield, right?

Mike Mayfield, right? Right. Mike Mayfield line right now would be 200 passing yards. He'd be over or under.

So you'd pick over because you would think Baker would probably throw on a Thursday night. He usually plays great on Thursday nights. But as it gets closer to the Thursday, his line goes up. So it goes from 200 to 225 to 230.

If everybody's betting it. Mike Mayfield, right. Right. Which normally is going to happen anyways.

So, but as you get closer, the line gets small, the space gets smaller for error, right? That is essentially the concept. So, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So how about those cowboys? Why, did you take them? No, no, no, you guys are both.

Sorry. I didn't know who to switch it on. I had a customer who wants to come pick something up. All right, Mikey, you got a video for us this week?

I do. I sent it to you. Oh. This is interesting.

So this is a volume one and there's no music? Yes, you go ahead and you play it. I'll play mine without sound. All right.

And you turn yours down too, Bootsy. I'll mute mine on the edit. Okay, but just don't put it in your face like that. Lower it.

There you go. Oh, gotcha. What's up, my cigar brothers and sisters? It's Guy Fieri.

Excited to tell you about a new, special, exclusive release. The new Knuckle Sandwich Off Menu Cigar. It's a 6x54 box press toro with a Pennsylvania broadleaf wrapper and a Nicaragua binder and filler. Now it delivers a bold, balanced, full flavor experience that lives up to the Knuckle Sandwich name.

We call it Off Menu because it's made for those in the know, retailers and consumers who want something truly special. If you're looking for big flavor and attitude, this one's for you. Check it out. Okay.

All right. I have several problems with this. Yes. So, problem number one.

He needs a microphone. Why isn't he mic'd up? Yeah, for God's sakes. This is a guy that has access to, I mean, there has to be a film crew there or something doing something.

Somebody's following him around, right? You would think. Yeah, because somebody videotaped it. Yeah.

Yeah, someone from the Food Network. So, it sounds like he's in a gym. Like, there's weights being dropped. Somebody's building something.

Yeah, like, what's going on? Well, they are. They're building his next video. They're building this next video?

Yeah, the next one. Okay. On the video that you copied his boots, the little face is floating at the bottom because he likes it. It sees, yeah.

Oh, off a face. Yeah. Yeah. His hair looks great though.

It looks freshly bleached. Yeah, so he's about to tape something. He's got a nice outfit on. He's ready to go.

His hair looks nice. He's ready to do something. Yeah. I mean, all you need is like a little DJI Osmo Pocket 3 and a mic.

Mike? Yeah. Spend $50, $75 and get a little Mike that you carry around with you. Make them sound good.

You know, like there should be a guy for that. Right. That would eliminate the background noise too. Guy Fieri stuff for them?

What's that? Who's the gentleman that does all the... Jerome? Jerome.

Yeah. No, he does Espinosa stuff. Oh, he does Espinosa cigars. Oh, he doesn't do the knuckle sandwich stuff.

He doesn't do Guy Fieri's show. No, no. It's a good clip. Don't get me wrong.

But it could have been so much better. Could have been better. You know, just a couple little snippets here. Put a light on it.

Well, you know, maybe he really wanted to get this out, so maybe it was just kind of out of the blue. Yeah, but here's the deal, man. But why doesn't he have a guy that's always with him? Yeah, let's say that you're right, and you're probably right.

You know, he's in between a bunch of things. He's got a lot going on, whatever. Boots, can you open the door real quick to put somebody in? Oh, wait, no matter what, Greg's got it.

Okay. You know, there's a bunch of stuff, like, again, he's got a lot going on, all he has to do is have somebody with a DJI on him to record it, even if you don't want to clip it, at least the audio sounds good, the video looks good, you know, the video looks fantastic already, and it would have a better track sequence. Listen, as the fine-tuned show that we are, with our audio and video, we are going to critique. Of course.

And the reality is that... This is our world. Yeah. And we don't have a plane.

Right. No, yeah. Does he have a plane? I think he has a plane.

Of course he has a plane. Yeah, that guy's... Well, I mean, everybody doesn't have a plane. Guy Fieri...

He was probably in his plane. It's so big, that's why he sounded like that. Is that the way he was echoing? Yeah.

I don't think Guy Fieri is rich. I think Guy Fieri is wealthy. Well, he might have access to like the Food Network plane. What is the difference in what you're saying?

Like rich? Rich and wealthy? Rich is like a few million bucks. wealthy is, you know, double-digit millions.

Like queen-king money. Look up his net worth, Boots. Look on ChetGPT and see what Guy Fieri's net worth. I think that you could burn through rich.

Yeah. It's easy to... You could burn through rich in a month if you wanted to, right? If you weren't conservative with your cash.

Right. I think that if... I think Guy Fieri can turn on the spigot and spend a lot of money, and he's still good. That's wealth.

Oh, he could spend millions and millions until he dies, and... I think that he's got, he's, he's worked his ass off to a point where it's generational. Yeah. You know?

So, yeah. So he probably does, he probably was in his plane if you're telling him he's wealthy. You want to know what his estimated net worth is? Please.

Go ahead. 100, 100 million dollars. There you go. That's it?

No, he's gotta be worth way more than that. 100 million? Because I thought, wasn't his contract for Food Network like, some retard, it was like 100 million or something like that. It was, it was, it was something other, it was like three digit millions.

I don't know, but if he's worth, I mean, look, if you're worth a hundred million, you're wealthy. No, no, yeah, yeah, but I'm just saying, I feel like he's worth more. Because, like, I'm worth about negative 40,000, 50,000, something like that. Negative 40,000.

Yeah, there's a red line for my worth. He has a plane, but it's not a big plane. See? Oh, oh, okay.

Oh, but it's not a big plane. Is it a jet? It doesn't look like it's a jet. He likes to be efficient.

So... Likes to move quickly. So there's that. Uh, no, no, it is a Jack.

Yeah. Still not, it looks kinda old. He bought it back in 2017 or something, it says. Yeah, but he also has the Food Networks playing.

And you're just pulling this off of the interwebs, you don't know how accurate that is. Right, no, no. Yeah, as him and Matt Booth are in the air and they're golden. Yeah, we gotta get him on the show.

Guy Fieri? Yeah. Oh, that'd be good, but I don't think it will. That'll never happen.

I don't think they're gonna help us do it. Don't ever say never. Never. We'll tell him we have a sandwich.

We have a sandwich. I want you to try this. We have a microphone and everything, guys. Check this out.

Baloney. You know, to be honest, he's around this area a lot because there's a lot of restaurants that he does on his show. The Central Florida area is a big one. Is it?

Yep. St. Augustine area is a big one. If only we knew somebody at Espinosa that would take care of that for us.

We can't even get him at the shop, let alone the show. Or the cigars to the shop before they. Can you imagine if he co-host? Or the cigars to the shop before they release them.

Can you imagine if he co-hosted? Oh, then you get to stay on the show again. No, oh, but by the way. Boots isn't on at all and I get bumped to Boots.

I think we should do something for the night of the event for Espinosa, December 6th, December 5th. December 5th? Yes. What we should do either before the, depending upon the schedule, before the dinner or whatever, or after the dinner, we should do it where he's just a guest co-host of me and you're still doing your thing.

So he can interact and talk, but he doesn't have to do all that. Oh, just do a show? Yeah. Ah.

That's what I'm thinking. I think that'd be cool. I think it'd be really hilarious if he was reading all Palmer stuff. Yeah, you'd get some good stuff out of Eric.

Oh, sure. The trending topics? Yeah. Right.

Boom. Yeah, it'd be good. Bro, I was on that island. Who wrote this?

I catered his food, it was terrible. Oh. Okay. All right, now let's light up some cigar news.

Oh. The Boutique Cigar Association has announced it's dissolving after a unanimous vote by its volunteer board who say they need to refocus on their own businesses. Founded in 2017, the BCA represents a smaller cigar companies producing under 500,000 cigars a year and was originally created to address regulatory concerns tied to the FDA's deeming regulations. Over the years, the BCA engaged with the FDA, the HHS, Congress, and other agencies, and especially with the FDA's The Congress and other agencies is best known for partnering with the PCA in 2023.

Did you keep that straight? Did you get all those? The PCA, the PCA. HHC, which I'm not sure what that is.

There's a lot of commas and zeros. To create a dedicated pavilion at the PCA trade show for boutique manufacturers, the group also hosted the Smoke at the Creek Festival and recently launched a BCA branded sampler, which will continue to be sold despite the organization shutting down. So you can still buy this thing and we can still take the money, but we don't exist. It's podcast Protecting the Legacy will end, the website will remain online.

So just to summarize, you can still buy the cigar, you can't watch the show, but we're keeping the website. Until GoDaddy kicks us off. Right, until our GoDaddy contract, allegedly. The dissolution follows an April announcement that the BCA would cease its regulatory work.

A. , which opposes including certain flavored cigars. Alphabet soup. Founder Dr.

Gabby Caffey emphasized pride in the association's nearly 10 years of advocacy, framing the closure as the next step toward a more unified industry future. Did you say doctor? Yeah, he was an eye doctor. The Boutique Cigar Association, founded in 2017, was originally guided by a dedicated group of industry professionals who formed its first board of directors.

The original board consisted of Cary Horny, Armin Caparellian, Fouad, I can't pronounce this guy's last name, Joel Vasquez Marrero, Carter Skinner, Dalton Healy, and Mike Palmer. These individuals played a foundational role in shaping the mission. And you were included in that? Yes.

In the article? Yes. Wow. Advocacy efforts of the BCA during its formative years.

Did you know this was happening? No. I left after the third year, I believe. It just was too much.

I didn't have time. Well, now that they dissolved, do you want to re-open it with us? CHPod? CHPod?

BCA? Yeah. No. I don't think so.

Just send all the money towards us. Me and Palmer really want you to send the money to us. I'm curious as to, how many podcasts did they do? I don't know, I've never watched.

I didn't even realize they had one. I've seen that Caffey did a podcast, but I didn't know it was part of this. Yeah. We beat another one.

We beat another one. We're gonna outlast all of you. And now that we're going every day, no one can stop us now. There will be no stopping us, except no one will be switching buttons right now as Boots is texting.

So who knows where the camera is on. No, no, I was looking for, uh, they published over 151 episodes. Oh, they did. Okay.

That's not bad. That's not bad. They hit triple digits. What's that, a year?

Over 10 years. Two years. Over 10 years? Hmm.

No, that's like maybe three years worth. No. If they do it every week. I guess they don't do it every week.

Yeah. No. Well. You recant.

I got news for you. We don't check facts. Here's, here's, you know what, like here's what's really funny. He's got a helicopter too.

Right. Here's what's really funny, man. Yes. This podcast shit is hard.

It is hard. It is. And the hardest part about it is showing up all the time. Showing up and then talking about stuff.

Right. And being open and honest. So, yeah. It's easier to be open and honest and to lie because then you forget what you said.

Well, you can't keep up with it. Right. Exactly. There's too much.

Too much going on. Yeah. I don't remember what the hell we said yesterday. Oh, and people always are so nice.

They come up and go, hey, then when you guys talked about that thing on the show, you're like, when was that? And they go, well, it was like four episodes ago. Like, dude, I'm very sorry. I don't.

Yeah. I mean, when Lavergain talked about the thing that he talked about, the suicide or whatever, when he was on with us. Yeah. I have no idea what that was.

I don't know what he's talking about either. Yeah. I'm like, oh, that was a year ago. Right.

You know? Can't remember what this was. Okay. Well, do you think BCA could have, are you done with this article?

That's the end of the article, but we can still talk about it. Do you think BCA could have done something differently in order to remain successful or at least try and be? On the posts about them closing, there have been people that have been complaining about like the location of their pavilion and things they were promised that never happened and that kind of stuff. So to me, it always seemed like another organization that wasn't really necessary because it was doing the same thing all the other organizations were doing just for smaller groups.

Right. So, I mean... The Dome within the Dome. Right.

So, like, we're a member of the PCA. We fit that 500,000 years ago, whatever, you know, thing. Right. Why would we want to join this one, too, that's doing the same thing that the PCA's already doing on a bigger scale?

Well, not only that, but if you're a brand, how do you promote? Just because you're in this BCA thing doesn't mean that you're going to be successful in track. Right. Just because you're in the pavilion doesn't mean people are going to walk through.

Right. Oh, I'm going to support you because you're-- I'd go over there and walk around and I'd never, you know, never see a lot of traffic through there. Right. Did those guys pay less money to go to PCA when they were in that pavilion?

Yeah, it was cheaper than if you were to buy a bigger, because, I mean, basically what you got was a little stand-up thing you stood behind. Do you think that these guys don't go to PCA anymore? I think some of them still do. Some of them probably do.

They'll get the minimum size you can get, but it's a bigger investment than it was if you were part of this. Yeah, but just like any business, some of these businesses are going to fade away. Right. Yeah, because the Sinestro guys were in there, right?

Yeah, I'm sure they're fine. Uh, yeah, but they've graduated up. Yeah. They do a regular booth at, by this point.

Okay. Do they? Well, they do the PCA, wait, where were we, does PCA do pavilions too, or was that the other, that was the other people? TPE?

Yeah, TPE does a pavilion. Yeah, I don't know if, I don't remember. I don't remember. I gotta be honest, last couple years we've kind of been in our own booth.

Yeah, I think they were more towards one of the ends where they sort of start grouping all the small It's all guys together where it's like cigar, cigar, cigar, cigar, you know, right in a row. It's not like a substantial size. Oh, but yeah, because I mean, Art Garcia talked about how he felt like he was mistreated by the beast. Yeah, that was one of the guys.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Like the concept sounds good.

Right. The concept sounds good. But I think that if you're building something like that, you have to realize that this is something that is not going to be It's not going to be profitable at all, and it's just a- Do we really need another organization? No.

The PCA, the CAA, the CRA, whatever the HHC is. I mean, that's another point. You know, that's another great, that's another valid point. Right.

Can't you find a place where you can fit in already some one of these other groups? Possibly. Not to mention, you know, what do you bring to the table at that point? You know?

Right. Like, are you providing more exposure for the industry? It doesn't sound like it, you know? No.

Boutique cigars are already a smaller type company of the cigar world anyways. So then you have this BCA, which is like, like you said, like a dome within a dome. These are even smaller of the small already. Yeah.

So, I mean, I could understand why that kind of dissolved. I mean, yeah, there's definitely no money if these are the 1% of the 1%. One percent. I mean, you can get together with your boys and put together a booth, you know what I mean?

Yeah, sure. You know, like, I think the other challenges- Some of the companies do that, like Moe's always in a group full of more people. Right. And even STG now with Room 101, I mean, Room 101's inside an area with more than just Room 101 in there.

Right, well, I mean, he's- Well, that's STG. Right, right, right, exactly. But like, I don't know, I don't think that, you would hope that that would work, but I think getting people to pay is also another thing. I think another challenge.

Right. All right. So, hey, I'm going to put the down payment on the booth. I'm going to need your third.

Right. We're splitting it three ways. And it's like crickets. Okay.

Uh, so then I got to pay that? You know. All right, guys, the bill's coming up. Luciano has my check.

Oh. Go see him. Go see him. He said he's paying for mine.

That's funny, dude. All right. R. Cigar, Santa Clara, and Casa de Monte Cristo get new bosses.

Oh. Interesting. Well, the musical chairs over the Tablacalera USA continue, and this month they really spun the wheel. R.

Cigar ship, is now taking over CEO of both Cassidy Monte Cristo and Santa Clara. Big move. He steps into the Sherry Szyminski, who, according to multiple people talking to Half Wheel, appears to be out. You're out.

Brad's been around the building forever, mostly on the Altidus side, so none of this is exactly a shock. Sliding into Brad's old chair is Nicholas Maslowski, former one of your people, one of my people, one of your peoples, how do you know, Maslowski, he's Polish, one of your peoples, how do you know, Maslowski, he's a ski, so that's definitely Polish, isn't that Polish, without trying to sound boots racist, is that Polish, I mean, it is pretty Polish, Maslowski, one of my ex-wives, original name was Maslowski, well, he could still be Polish, he could be. All right, former the COO, e-commerce for JR. He's now the CEO, more with these letters, of JR Cigar.

If you're keeping score, JR Cigar, the OG cataloging, 55 years deep, Rothman Legacy, giant online presence, plus a few retail spots still hanging around. Casado Monte Cristo, the premium brick-and-mortar chain, spreads across Florida and half of the East Coast. Santa Clara, the wholesale alarm, pushing cigars out to other retailers. Tablical Area USA's top dog, Javier Estedes.

put out the standard Polish, Polish, polished press release talking about... Polish on the brain, though, buddy. The Polish press release. Everything's spelled wrong.

Wow. Talking about leadership, innovation, that's stereotyping, not racism. Innovation, premium cigars, and how it all starts at the top. Translation, they're shaking things up, trying to keep the brand sharp, and putting people in seats.

Who knows how to push the big machine forward? Okay. Sounds like they're over trying to figure out who's going to do what. I'll tell you what, you go over here, you go over here, you're in charge of this, you're in charge of that.

Yeah, well, what do you think it is? Why the shuffle of people? I don't know, that's kind of weird, like, at this time of year, too. Oh, yeah, ask Jack Toronto, it's not weird.

No, this is the time they do it. They're not fueling the growth, they're just moving people around. Well, somebody's out. Oh, yeah, somebody has to be out.

The lady got out. Yeah, I don't know, I mean... Sexism, they got rid of the lady. Yeah, maybe.

This is Altidus, you said, right? , Santa Clara, Cousin and Monte Cristo. Yeah, I mean, these are bigger companies, right? So, I mean, I don't know.

That's just kind of weird that they're moving around a lot. I mean, I can understand, like, maybe a one-time thing because somebody is, like, fucking up and you had to get rid of them. But now you're saying that this is multiple times. Well, they let a lady go, created an opening.

So then they take this guy from this company and put her in their lap. Now there's another opening. So they got to bring this guy up and brought him more hair. Somebody knew he's got to be added because they're one short.

Or a job was eliminated. The Lakers moved to Texas where there are no lakes. There you go. I don't, look.

Yeah, I think that they're feeling the squeeze. Cigar Page is moving up. They're now getting into that retail space as far as brick and mortar. You know, CI is moving in on specific places as far as where they think they can, again, brick and mortar.

And Costa's always kind of floundered. They acquired these retail spaces, but they've always kind of failed at the helm. You know, we did business with Casa 100 years ago, and when you brought your product in, no one took care of it. And eventually, it found its way to the bargain bin, it's like, okay, well, it's not that my product's bad, it's that you guys don't have the infrastructure to take care of it.

So, you'll support Monte Cristo, you'll support your Romeo and Julietas, but guess what, there are some mid-level brands that you're missing out on opportunities Because you don't have the infrastructure for it, is that what this is? I don't know. But I can tell you that if you're a big brand, and you have retail spots, and you're seeing other bigger retailers moving in quickly, that means you're definitely doing something wrong. And you gotta figure that out.

So maybe that's what this is. It sounds like more of the same to me personally. I don't know how you rectify it, but they were the first to kind of go in and gobble things up. They gobbled up serious cigars in Texas.

You know, they took over Prime and Boca. They moved quickly, but I just don't think that they had the ability to really kind of track it where it should have grown at the level that it could have. So, it'll be interesting to see how this goes, I just don't, I don't, I don't know if this is the, I don't know these guys, so I don't know if this is the answer or not. Yeah, it's kind of a weird way you don't really know any of these names.

Well, I don't know, man, I don't, I feel like I don't know a lot of the... We're just not in that circle? Yeah, we're not in that realm, really, at all. But these are more of the office type people, though, right?

Like, if you call Jack Taranio, you call, I mean, even Law, you call some of the guys that we know, they know some of these dudes. Even Frenchy at this point, John D. Oliver, because he's now made that transition into the evil empires. Is he still over there?

Well, he's at STG. Oh, okay. So they all kind of know each other. He's a stormtrooper.

Yeah, he's a stormtrooper. So, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I hope that they do well, because you don't want to just, you don't want to see one big giant consume a bigger portion of the pie.

Right. You know, you want to see them kind of cut out their sliver and attract more consumers, yes, but you don't want to see them over dominate something, so we'll see what happens. All right, the Warbear of Mass Destruction has landed and he is not here to play nice. Powstanie just dropped the newest Beast in the Votek series, an annual limited edition tradition going back to, is it 2019?

Is that correct? I think so. I don't know. And this year's release is a straight up flex.

I don't know what I had for breakfast. The Powstanie War Bearer 2025, aka the War Bearer of Mass Destruction, we're talking a 5-7-8x60 Perfecto, built like it's ready for deployment, same legendary VOTEC barber pole wrapper, Ecuador and Habano, twisted with Mexican San Andreas, wrapped up in that signature swirl that lets you know that this thing means business. Under the hood, an Indonesian binder keeping a crew of Dominican and Nicaraguan fillers in check, all handcrafted in Fabrica de Tobacco's Nicasueña and Esteli, Nicaragua. Because, of course, it is.

MSRP is $25 a stick, and we camped it at 1,000 boxes of eight. That's about 250 fewer than we originally planned. Scarcity makes the heart grow fonder, and the collectors go nuts, but here's the real headline: the packaging is a complete departure from anything we've ever done before. Each box comes wrapped in a dark, custom, Cerakoted metal sleeve, rugged, heavy, and built with mounting slot already on it.

Nope. That's right. You can hang your Warbear on the wall like it's a piece of art. The band is fully blacked out.

Tactical means zero nonsense. Oh, that's it. Oh, it ends abruptly. The question people are having is the cost.

The cost. The cost. Yeah. I was actually contacted by one media source and wanted a comment about why it is twice as much as any other war bear that's ever come out.

Okay. And Coop, get a shot at also that it's the most expensive bear that's ever come out, somebody with a question mark. Yeah. It's expensive.

Well, for one, it has a metal casing on it. Yeah, that's usually where I started. I did an off-the-record comment because I'm not making a comment. S.

of A. And yeah, we can stamp Made in America on it. This is our 10-year anniversary. We wanted to make something nice, and everything's costing more money.

And I got news for you. I would like to make some money on selling scars. I know that this is insane, but look, I can't do stuffed animals that was already taken. So, um, they're asking about the price on this and, but they're buying a $39 paint rear pink.

Well, but they're comparing it and it was two years ago. 50. But this is normally your, uh, LE. Yeah.

I like making something nice. Yeah. And, and you know, things cost more money. And, and the reality is it's just like our hats on CH pod.

I could have made a cheaper hat. Yeah, of course. Sure. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I could have got you some regular trucker hat. Yeah. And we could have sold it at half the price.

But it wouldn't have looked as fucking dope. But I wouldn't have liked it. Right. I wouldn't have been okay with it.

It'd already be broke. I wouldn't have loved it. No, I mean, you probably would have worn it for a while, you know? But, man, when I put on our CHPod hat, I'm like, this is badass.

Yeah, I wore it all weekend. I'm not putting my name on anything that I think is going to be not high quality. Half-ass. Yeah, so yeah, the sticks are $25 a clip, it's $200 a box.

Have you released a picture of these things already? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They look dope, I mean, I don't know. Pictures, videos, the whole shebang.

I don't see how somebody, and it's a 10 count box. No, it's eight, eight. Yeah, $25 for eight sticks for a box, and you get this dope metal sleeve that's engraved, cut out, all that. I'm so happy that Coop took shots, that's awesome.

Wow. Yeah. Thank you, Coop. At least he carried the press release.

Yeah. Thank you for acknowledging us on this press release. You're a sweet man. I don't care what they say about you.

Don't listen to them. While we are on this subject, the size is a grand perfecto? Yes. Yes.

Okay. Your original war bear. Uh-huh. What was the size?

Perfecto. Perfecto. Small perfecto. That's pretty dope.

Yeah. We tied that all in. In honor of our tenure, we're bigger. Bigger.

Bigger, bolder, faster, more money, more expensive. You know, what is kind of. When did you see the 20-year, $50 a stick? You know, but the irony in all of this is that we have seen so many brands in the past three or four years come out with cigars that are $60, $80, $100, $150.

Right, that's what I want to say when people ask. I'm like, that's still a cheap cigar, $25. They're buying the EFTs or whatever. That wasn't even a fucking cigar.

Right, exactly. This is our limited. Not only is it our limited, but we went above and beyond far as quality and casing the whole thing. We wanted to do something special, right, where we had these cases made and then we had them painted with the camo, which I thought was awesome.

Yeah. And it's only 25 bucks. They were painted, then unpainted. I got news for you.

If it was somebody else's brand. I was just about to say that. They're $100 a piece. Yep.

They're $100 a piece per cigar. Yeah, and you can be on our Facebook page if you buy them at $100 apiece. That's what other companies would do. Yeah, so, there you go.

Yeah, I'm excited about it. So am I. I love the cigar. It's already very well received.

Orders are shipping out. And we're doing what we can to fulfill them as fast as possible. As fast as possible. It's a good cigar.

I don't know why anybody would complain. You know what, man? As long as they're talking about us, that's all I care about. Yeah, I guess.

No publicity is bad publicity. Right. The worst pirate I ever heard of. Right.

Alright, now an update on the California UTL lawsuit. Uh-oh. For the attorneys involved in the legal battle over California's unflavored tobacco list, UTL, it has been a busy week or so. In both state and federal court, the two sides, a group of companies and trade organizations representing the cigar industry, and on the other side, the California Attorney General's Office, have filed various motions and responses regarding the UTL.

Last week, the AG's office, the Attorney General, replied above to a motion to request for an injunction from the state court. In it, the different definitions of premium cigar play a role, with the AG's office arguing that the state's legislator created California's definition of premium cigar and provided the exemptions to the law, not the AG's office, nor its UTL. It also pokes fun at the plaintiffs' claims that the costs associated with the UTL are crippling by pointing out that the original complaint from the plaintiffs boasted how premium cigars are enjoyed all over the world and the plaintiffs are the most renowned artisans of the premium cigars in the world. World.

Again, say world one more time. World. Thank you. So they're saying we've already described what a cigar is, and actually we didn't do it.

The state has already made that apparent in whatever that was in. Right. And you guys are saying that we're crippling the industry by making them apply to this, but you said that the people who are in the lawsuit sell cigars all over the world and are the premium people in this industry. Okay.

Who said all that? California or? The Attorney General's office. So we're not crippling, and we didn't even say what a premium cigar is.

The state's already established that. Right. It sounds like we're screwed. That's what it sounds like to me.

Yeah, it does, isn't it? Yeah, it sounds like everything's going to be disregarded. Your complaints are going to... " Right.

Yeah. You're an idiot. You're an idiot. You've already filed it in the wrong court.

You're saying we're not saying this, and we already said this. Right. Now you're saying you don't have any money, but you keep suing us. So, you know, what's going on here?

Right. Um, it's not good. It's not good for the cigar industry. So, they're definitely not coming off of it.

It looked, it appears to be that way. Hmm. It appears to be that way. And, um...

You know, again, this is California. Right? We already know that they do crazy, sideways stuff. So, let 'em, so fuck 'em, man.

Let 'em not have fucking cigars. No, I think that that's the wrong approach, dude. If they do it, somebody else will do it. Correct.

You're opening this door up for more problems for this industry, and this industry is small enough already. So, you know, until the masses will stand up for it and say, "Hey, you know, this isn't worth attacking. We need to protect this. " Until that happens, you're going to, this is going to get worse.

Who do you think it would take to stand up and make this reverse? Guy Fieri. No, it would. With a microphone.

With a better microphone. With a better microphone. It would, it would take the mindset of at least the majority of people to understand what cigars are. " I quit smoking cigarettes years ago.

And wait a second, how did we? It's not the same thing. Right. How did you get there?

Right. Like how, you know, that's what, that's what needs to change. Until that changes, we're in trouble. We're in a lot of trouble.

Here's a cold pill. Will I stop taking heroin years ago? Right. It's not quite the same thing, sir.

Yeah. It's an antihistamine. Right. Yeah.

Like, okay. The other one's a schedule. " So why can't the cigar industry, whoever's fighting for them, that guy, I guess that was in the video, right? Is that what the guy was?

Maybe the HHC is not on board yet. So why can't they just go to the federal court and strike it? I just don't understand why this is stopped here. I'm not an attorney.

This is above my pay grade. But, you know, I'm sure that there are challenges that after things are denied, you can probably level things up, I would assume. Yeah, move it up the chain. But you're talking about years and years and years of legal battles and costs when realistically a lot of these, you know, other industries have the right lobbyists to approach these things and things get kind of poo-pooed away, right?

Why it's being created makes no sense, you know, and it doesn't matter until it's, until the masses believe that it makes no sense. But right now, people are like, yeah, that's kind of weird, but whatever, and they just move on and focus on something else, right, well, there's, that's not happening, but you know, instead, you got other big concerns with everything else that's going on in life, costs going up through the roof, tariffs are always a threat, you know, ice, ice has been a big thing all year, right, like, there's all of these other things that no one cares, what, like, oh, you want me to stop talking about cigars? Like, well, yeah, because you're losing your rights, whether you use them or not, and that's what happens in every society. I just think it's kind of puzzling to me because these higher officials that are in these court systems and stuff, you know how the cigar world is only a 3%, right?

3% of people smoke cigars? I bet you the percentage of politicians in these areas is way higher than 3%. Yeah, but you think that they won't be able to smoke their cigars? Not in California.

They'll still be able to smoke the cigars that they want. That's not going to stop for them. That's crazy. I mean, think about it.

The government shut down. Do the people making that rule not get paid? No. That's crazy.

They still got paid. Eventually. Yeah. No.

I make the rules, but I won't follow the rules. No. The people that are making those laws. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They still got paid. They still got their paycheats. Yeah, they still got paid. Right.

Yeah, that was it. The Senate and everybody still got paid. Yeah. Yeah, that's absurd.

Right. again it's the same it's the same story over and over again as far as people losing their rights and they're okay with it because they don't use them yeah whatever just take it away so okay all right now it's time for the industry's favorite game played all around the world it's time for what's the score hey what's the score you guys suck you guys suck i was trying You tried. I understand. You tried.

You tried. He sucks. He sucks. Oh, all right.

Today's first cigar. Are you with us over there? No, he's saying how much he sucks. Today's first cigar is from November 19th, 2025.

This is the recent cigar reviewed by Patrick. Dominican Republic, General Cigar Company, limited edition reviews of the Weller by Cohiba 2025. Oh, these are the new news. Patrick Weller by Cohiba 2025.

Yes. This is new. This is the new one. New news.

All right, who's going first? Uh, I think I went first last time, didn't I? I don't care. Yeah, you go first.

Uh, Patrick, Kojibo, Weller, Weller, General Cigar, Weller's in alcohol, apparently. 86. Booty? Yeah, Patrick's usually in the 80s, well, the last episode Patrick was not in the 80s, Patrick was definitely in the 70s, uh, but I'll, yeah, I'll go 82.

Ooh. Ooh. I'm not following it. 99.

They smoked three cigars. Hmm. I thought you were talking to me. I almost stopped.

Okay, I'm going to stick with 86. I'm going to stick with 82. All right, 86, 82? Yep.

First clue, getting to the Weller by Cohiba 2025 involves a couple of steps. I didn't get to take the cigar out of the box, so I'm starting with opening up the tubes, removing the cigar, and then getting it out of its cellophane. Once unpacked, I find the wrapper to be quite interesting. Interesting.

Slightly oily, modeled with reds and browns, with spots, reminding me of a burnt sienna Crayola crayon. With spots? That's what it says. 87.

'Cause he likes the oils? He's essentially an oil guy? He's an essentially oil guy. He's from the oil guy.

He's on Landman! Episode 2 was pretty good. I'm sticking at 82. You did what?

I'm sticking at 82. All right. Clue number two, the Wello by Cohiba 2025 starts on a dry note with pepper and some of those wheat cracker sensations. I picked up on the pre-light aroma.

Next, some creaminess comes along while a retro hails are a combination of pepper and a thin version of a dry, leafy sensation. That doesn't really help much. It was a Dominican tobacco. It says it's dry.

Yeah. I'll stick it 86, I'll lower it back down to 86. 86, Mr. Boots.

I just, I think this is going to be low because this guy likes Tatuaje, right? So, I mean, this has got to be complete opposite. 82. I can't tell if there are combustion issues in the first cigar, but I find myself struggling to get into the right rhythm to keep the cigar burning without overwhelming my taste buds with puffs.

Did you say puffs, like P? Puffs, yes, puffs, puffs, puffs, I was just making sure. Otherwise, the draw, burn line, and smoke productions are solid. Hmm.

That helps, uh, nothing there. 84. Yeah, you're going, you're trending down. Yeah.

Yeah, 82. Final thought, I've long been a bit perplexed by cigars like the Weller by Cohiba, as there is such a connection between the two that I wonder just how much of the Weller bourbon flavor I should be getting. Or if I should simply think of it as an accompaniment to the bourbon, in the case of the 2025 edition by Weller by Cohiba, the first third gives me the most bourbon-esque flavors, and even then it's fairly fleeting, leaving me with a more consistent barrel flavor, or slightly damp, decent charred wood. To set the foundation of the profile, all three cigars are very good from a flavor perspective and would have probably paired well with bourbon as the flavor has enough character to stand up to a high-proof spirit but not much edge that would dominate or be incongruent.

"That said, it felt that the cigar didn't have the kind of profile that makes it stand out on its own. I would have loved a bit more of the bourbon flavor to appear without necessarily making the cigar approach the point of feeling flavored or infused, just a bit more influenced. " He's more worried about the bourbon. Once more of the booze.

Patrick is joining Alcoholics Anonymous as we speak. I'm gonna go back to 86. Oh, you think the, because he said he wanted another one? Sign me up.

I'm gonna go 84. 86. Oh, got it! Yes!

On the head. On the head. Yeah. This is such a runaround of a description.

You think so? Yeah. Yeah. You know what's funny?

You read it? No. I thought I was going to say that too. Yeah.

You want to know what's funny? What? Patrick isn't the Tatuaje guy. Brooks is the Tatuaje guy.

Oh. They look a lot alike. They sound alike too. They're totally different.

Their descriptions are exactly the same. They eat a lot of crackers. Eat a lot of crackers. I got news for you.

I think that if the combustion didn't do as bad, it probably would have pelted 88. Really? Yeah. Have you smoked this one?

No. Haven't smoked it, didn't read the article, but I nailed it. All right, next cigar is from April 13th, 2017, reviewed by Mr. Charlie Minato.

Uh-oh, seven. It's a Caldwell Cigar, Nicaragua, All Out King's Smash. Oh, this is the Drew Estate one. Special note, the collaboration between Drew Estate and Caldwell Cigar Company was quite simply a hype machine.

That's it? Well, yeah, just so you know, it was a, I mean, he knew it was a Drew Estate, but I assumed you wouldn't, so. Yeah, I didn't. It was a collaboration with Drew Estate.

I don't know, I feel like Charlie's gonna rate Drew Estate high. There's not many collaborations with Drew Estate, is there? I don't, I didn't remember, that's why I picked this, it seemed kind of unique. Not really.

I'll go 87. 84. Country of Origin, Nicaragua, Factory, La Gran Fabrica, Drew Estate, Wrapper, Connecticut, Habano, Binder, Indonesian, Sumatra, Filler, Connecticut, Broadleaf, Lajero, Dominican, Corojo, 97, and Nicaragua from Esteli and Jalapa, 5x52, Robusto, they smoked 3 cigars, 87. 84.

Smash begins medium full with a cedar, walnut, and a bit of Dr. Pepper sweetness. Oh. This guy's got to stop drinking and eating when they're fucking smoking.

He drinks a lot of soda, Charlie. Yeah. A distinct sweet cherry flavor. The draw is a touch open like many Drew Estate made cigars before it.

Smoke production is intense. And there's Charlie right there. Yep, just came right in. Or maybe that's Guy Fieri's playing.

One of them is still echoing up there. Maybe. 87. I don't see how that changes anything.

Yeah, it doesn't change much for me either. I'm going to stick 84. I'm waiting for the bomb to drop. The trip down the vegetable aisle continues with some roasted zucchini in two of the three samples.

In both cigars, it's overshadowed by the core, which is creaminess on top of some grainy bread and earthiness. The semi-sweet cocoa is still present, very much a secondary flavor, Though the fruity flavors are gone by the halfway mark. That's so confusing. I love that.

Yeah, that's... Zucchini, cocoa... It's like you cancel each other out almost. Yeah, so it tastes like nothing now.

Yeah. 87. I'm gonna move up to 86. Oh, two up, huh?

Yeah. I smoked one sample down to about a half inch. And as long as you didn't take a full puff, it wasn't too hard. It wasn't too harsh.

A deep draw, however, covered the upper part of the mouth in bitterness. It's okay, as long as you don't smoke really hard. Yeah. Don't suck too hard.

Don't suck too hard. That's what she said. Ba-dum-boom. That's what she said?

That's what he said. I don't know how it works. I don't know. You don't know how it works.

I've been married a long time. Well, that doesn't happen anymore. You got children. Yeah, but it's not that way.

Okay. If you got children that way, something's happening. Yeah, that's a... Oh, really?

Wrong. Wrong. I gotta go. Wrong.

Yeah, I'm a stick A, so. He wants me to move so bad. No, I don't. Well.

I hate to disappoint you, Boots. I don't think your scoring votes affect him in any way. Yeah. Sometimes, I guess.

I think I'm gonna stick at 86. All right, next clue. Clue. What's with the finger thing?

Wow, bro, you're the worst. Remember, he's using a signal. I honestly don't remember what it is. I'd have to look.

He's your help. He's asking for help. After I finished smoking the cigars for this review, Brooks Whittington asked me what I thought of the cigars, saying he had heard good things about it. I told him that it's a good cigar, that it's a good cigar, price too high.

I then made the comparison, this must be the final thoughts, the comparison with the Padron Exclusivo, Wow. And I was notably surprised by just how pricey this cigar is. In fairness, many cigars would fail the Padrón comparison, but I suspect that example will keep a lot of people from smoking as many all-out-of-kings as they might want. It's pricey to some, I agree, I'm not sure what I should expect.

Drew Estate's offerings have increased at a steady pace, and Caldwell isn't known for making cheap cigars, but the price point makes this a special occasion cigar for me, And I think the flavors just fall short of a special occasion. Boots? Well, I mean, that hasn't changed much for me, because all Caldwells are, like you said, are pretty expensive anyways. Yeah, I'm gonna go 87.

Okay, I'm gonna go 86. Okay, Boots, I was scratching my head up. 90, it's a 90. Perfect, I win.

He wins. That's all right. He gave you the signal and everything. I know, I wasn't paying attention.

He didn't have the camera on me. I know, I don't know how it's doing. I thought he was, you know, having a moment. Having a seizure.

Yeah. 90. Wow, that's very generous. On a Caldwell?

Caldwell, Drew Estate, special occasion cigar. Wow, interesting. It seemed like a boring cigar, like tobacco-wise. Well, congratulations, you won that one.

However, you still lost for the day as I nailed one. 5. As you hit right on top. The user of the week is Timmy Bailaman.

He listens to our show in Belgium. I love you, Timmy. Oh, which goes with? The Belgian Blue.

He listens in the car as he's taking his children to school and he's on his way to work. So he can't watch the video because he's in the car. Makes sense. Hey, anybody got anything else?

I don't have a shop of the week this week. You don't have a shop of the week? No, I don't have a shop of the week. Mikey, do you have a shop of the week?

Small Batch. Boom! There we go. Small Batch out in California.

Yep. We will pray for you and your UTLs. Yes, and your UTLs. Sounds like they got a UTI.

Yeah, that sounds horrible, actually, when you say that. Pray for you, your UTLs. A little pen of cinnamon, you'll be fine. All right, it's been episode 417 of the Cigar Hustler podcast every day.

All right, thanks everybody. All right, bye. com, but surely comes in black, bold, clean, and built for battle, available in multiple sizes for warriors of every shape and strength, and remember, the actual image does not dance or move, but it definitely makes a statement. com before they're gone!

Show Notes

On Today’s  Podcast, we hit the biggest stories you need to know:

• Thanksgiving grocery “discounts” that aren’t what they seem

• Netflix making a surprising move to chase Warner Bros Discovery

• AI toys causing major safety concerns for parents

• The NBA and NFL chasing massive European expansion

• Big shakeups at JR Cigar, Casa de Montecristo & Santa Clara

• The Powstanie War Bear of Mass Destruction officially drops and the media have questions

• Updates on the California UTL lawsuit

• Plus today’s round of “What’s The Score?” and as always our Listener of the Week