ACHP Special Episode: An Intimate Sit-Down with Pete Johnson

Transcript

De la Boca all.

Right, so we got the one and

only Pete Johnson from an

amazing albino hermaphrodites in

the house.

So that was my tattoo artist

that gave me that name.

Yeah, yeah.

He, he goes, I got a band and I

go, what's the band's name?

He goes, well, it's not really a

band yet, but it's called the

Amazing Albino Hermaphrodites.

And I go, dude, I, I can I use

the name, right?

He actually let me.

Use it, make sure whatever.

But we actually, because we were

kind of embarrassed by the name,

we actually went by ah, and we

did a couple shows under that

name because we were supposed to

go Incognito and played a bunch

of dive bars that actually no

longer there.

But there was a dive bar called

the AL's Bar in downtown LA that

the Chili Peppers got signed out

of, Jane's Addiction got signed

out of.

And we're supposed to do this

show at AL's Bar and no one's

supposed to be there, right?

We show up, we got on stage and

there was a band, a girl band

called L7, and they had a song

called Wargasm, and we played

Wargasm as a cover song and of

course they got up on stage.

So it ended up being that people

knew that the show happened, but

we were supposed to be not

there.

But yeah.

So I, you know, I listen to a

lot of podcasts that you're on.

Yeah.

Over the course of the past

month or so, I.

Listen to a lot of your

podcasts.

I heard about that.

I I, I don't know if I fully

believe you, but you know I do

I.

Don't know, he had a lot of

details he went over.

He has been OK so he's been

paying attention.

But you never really talked

about how you go from Maine to

LA.

Was it like a fuck you mom and

dad approach or no?

Like why did you go?

Music.

You just want that was like,

hey.

Well, OK, so there was a moment

in my musical career.

What if you could call it a

career that I said, oh, you

know, New Jersey, New York,

that's the hotspot for music.

You know, Skid Row, Bon Jovi,

they were getting big bands were

getting signed out of New

Jersey.

And then one day, 2 of my

buddies from from vocational

school, we were both in the same

printing class, a graphics

class.

They wanted to go to Lai said

let's go to LA.

So we went to LA for like 2

weeks and I fell in love with

it.

I go, I got it.

I got to move back, I went home,

worked a summer job into the

fall running a print shop for

the local college.

Made like 3000 bucks running

their print shop that's cool and

got on a plane and went to LA.

So, like, how does that look

like?

Do your parents get pissed off

or upset?

They're like, oh, he's got, you

know, you go.

Yeah, my mom, she told me and

she, I feel guilty for this one,

but my mom told me what that

when I when she drove me to the

airport and I was going with a

girl I knew from school, like

she wanted to go to LA and I

wanted to go to LA.

We weren't girlfriend and

boyfriend, we just friends.

We were both big Duran Duran

fans.

Go figure, me being a Duran

Duran playing heavy metal, Hard

Rock, but I still appreciate the

music.

So I had to meet with her

parents and they had to meet my

parents.

And it was one of those

interviews like, well, you're

both moving out there together.

And my mom drove me to the

airport and she said she cried

the whole way home from Boston.

She dropped me off at Boston

Logan and she drove all the way

back from Boston Logan crying.

So I felt a little guilty.

She talks about it in the

documentary that we're doing.

But we get to LA and I get a job

working at A at a print shop

because I needed, I knew I could

run a printing press and started

working at this print shop.

And then I, you know, would see

people's Flyers come through.

But then I'd also go to these

clothing stores around Melrose,

and I found a flyer, says Band

going on tour.

You're looking for leather

jeans.

I was looking for tight skinny

jeans.

Yeah.

You know, back then Metallica

was wearing these.

Really.

They're they're like a German

brand of tight skinny jeans that

were, everybody was obsessed

with it.

But there's a place called Lip

Service that made their own

version of them.

Kind of a horrible version of it

though, right?

But they had a flyer on the

floor and says band looking for

bass player going on tour.

I was like, I'm going to answer

this fucking thing.

And I called these guys.

They came up to LA.

They're out of San Diego.

They came up to LA.

We went out on the Sunset Strip

that night and they clicked.

They said, you want the gig?

And I said fuck yeah.

I didn't know any of their

songs.

They heard a couple demo tapes

that I brought with me and I

moved to Hummel, California,

which is like in the middle of

nowhere outside of San Diego.

And we were living in the guitar

players, mom's garage, our

living room and garage.

And we practice in the garage

that.

Was for the one day tour.

Well, we did that, Yeah.

We did that for about a month

before we went on this tour.

And the tour ended up being a

day.

Like we did one show and we got

kicked out of two hotel rooms.

And then the band, the band that

we were open for, their tour

manager was stealing all the

money from the show tickets.

So we're like, yeah, we got to

go home.

Tore over, tore over.

We go back to San Diego and

they're like, what are we going

to do?

And I go, let's move up to my

apartment in LA because I still

had the apartment.

I had no money, but I still had

the apartment.

We went back to the apartment

and the girl I moved into that

apartment with, she moved out

and there were three girls in

the apartment.

Oh God.

But she subleased to like one

girl and then she subleased to

two other girls.

So it ended up being five guys

and three girls in a one bedroom

apartment right on right on

Hollywood Blvd.

That's cool, man.

Yeah, it was, It was stupid, but

yeah, I mean, it's a lot of

stupid shit happened during.

Those days I was just kind of,

you know, I.

With Mikey, your camera keeps

going in and out of focus.

Does it?

Yeah.

Can you see me now?

What if I did this?

Is that better?

For the moment, it appears.

OK, let me know if it goes out

of focus.

What it was is Pete waved his

hand in front of it, so tried to

focus on Pete.

Oh, I did, yeah.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

OK, don't do that.

Don't do that.

I know, dude.

He's a lot bigger in person when

we, you know what, Yeah, when we

bought these things.

I mean, it's always been kind of

a learning curve, right?

So fancy one over.

There, Yeah, that's the, that's

the teleprompter for.

For the News.

Our Lord and Savior, Mike

Palmer, Yeah.

OK, that makes sense.

Yeah, that's why he's so good at

reading on camera.

I'm like, what's he?

Reading How does he do that?

I just memorized everything.

He's talking right into the

camera.

So yeah, I was always kind of

interested about how how your

parents took it.

Like how did so I I understand

how your mom took it, but like I

got to meet your dad before I

met you.

Yeah, yeah, I heard that story

today, actually.

Did you really?

Yeah.

From your dad told.

Me about it, no shit.

That that you guys are at the

Grand Lux Cafe?

Yeah, having breakfast and you

run.

Into that son of a bitch, Greg.

You're not supposed to say these

things.

You're supposed to say this for

the podcast.

No, that's cool.

My, my dad's a storyteller.

He was a storyteller.

He was.

He was extremely proud of you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, he's like, do you

know who Pete Johnson is?

And I was like, yeah, do you

never heard him?

Do you know who?

He is never heard him.

I was like, yeah, he's like,

he's my son.

I was like, oh, OK.

And that, I think, was the time

when you were going to open up

the vault like the bank that was

going to be a retail store and

he had the little stickers of

him.

Yeah, yeah, that was Johnson.

Senior has a posse.

That yes, that was that was my

only to tois Hey swag that I had

for like a decade was that one

sticker was on the filing

cabinet in in the office for 100

years.

But we have the obey version and

then the the like the the the

under the giant version, which

was Pete Johnson senior has a

posse with his weight and his

his hat, his height.

That's what it was.

He loved that, though.

He got a kick out of it.

Yeah, he was.

He seemed like a great guy, man.

You know, I'm sorry.

I know.

It's like it's a tough loss, you

know, no matter how old you are.

It was last November, actually.

Yeah, Thanksgiving.

So yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

But it's kind.

Of like a Bryant Gumbel thing

where you're going to make me

cry is.

It I mean, I can't guarantee it,

but but I'll transition onto

some lighter stuff.

OK, good.

So like you talk about brands

and they always kind of need

like something that pops, right?

And obviously the big pop for

you was the Monster series.

Yeah, big.

Yeah, right.

How happy.

Mistake.

Right.

Yeah.

How long did you go before that

pop happened?

And did you ever have like

moments where you're like, fuck,

man, I don't know.

I don't know if I can keep doing

this.

The first three actually 1st 4

trade shows.

I kept my job at the Grand

Advanta room.

I, I didn't think you like, I

figured I'd go into this whole

thing and thinking I was going

to make an extra paycheck, maybe

an extra scratch and I'll keep

my job at Grand Havana.

This will be helpful for my

future.

And then by the 4th trade show

was in Vegas in 2006, we got

into the trade show and I was

wearing a, a blazer with a

T-shirt underneath.

And I took off the blazer,

turned around, put it on the

table, and I turned it back

around and the whole booth was

flooded with people.

And I was like, holy shit, what

just happened?

And I went from like 125

retailers to 350 in like a few

days.

Oh shit.

And then everybody was coming in

the booth going, we want we want

these cigars.

I go, you got to get in line,

man.

Like I got these new cigars from

Nicaragua.

They're not the same because I

want to make something different

in Nicaragua.

But you know, we have we have

those now that I can get you.

But this other stuff, it's, it's

available to the people that

have been with the brand for the

last three years.

Taking care of the retailers

that supported.

You and I remember Diana gets

from up down Diana Sylvia said.

We we knew her as Diana Sylvia

from the famous brand that she

had with that was made by Fuente

and I knew her really well.

Like enough to go OK, this is a

lady I respect in the industry.

And she walked into the booth

and she tipped her glasses.

She had these big glasses,

sunglasses.

She tipped them down and I

looked at my sales Rep and I

said, give her whatever she

wants.

They're like, you can't ignore

it.

There's a historic, historic

store in Chicago, historic

retailers like you.

You can't ignore that.

And there were moments like that

in the early days that like, I

don't know if you remember the

rumbos in Texas.

No, sure shit.

I'm blanking on the.

Well, you're, you're a lot older

than me, Pete.

Well, no, but the the rumbos.

Why am I blanking in San

Antonio?

Steve, you want to help me with

this Keith Rumble?

This is store name.

Why am I blanking?

Damn it, Steve, Pete would know.

This is really embarrassing by

the way, because I've known

these people for a long time and

I've club humidor.

Thank you there.

You go, oh, OK.

Club Humidor And I knew about

the Colonel, you know his dad, I

knew about him.

And the Colonel, if he approved

your, you know, product to be in

his store, that was a big deal.

And he called me.

He says, is this Pete Johnson?

I said, yes, who am I talking

to?

He goes, this is the current,

you know who I am?

I go, yes, Sir, I know who you

are because I want to get your

product in my store.

And I was like, holy shit.

Like, those are the moments that

you really feel like you made

it.

Arrived you've.

Arrived but it took 4 trade

shows.

It wasn't like Oh my God, this

is a big success.

It wasn't like Dion from

Illugione that, you know, he's

got his retail store in Reno, NV

and he comes to me and says,

hey, I want to do the cigar for

my store.

So I make him a cigar for a

store and then he comes back to

me and says, hey, I want to do

this as a national brand.

This is all in 2005 to 2006.

And in 2007 he comes up with his

own brand.

I gave him the phone number to

the factory that I was working

with at the time to make that

particular cigar.

And he comes out with his brand.

It gets really quick ratings

from Cigar Insider and Cigar

Aficionado and boom, he's a hit

the first year, right?

Like by that time my brand was

doing good because I had legs

already a few years, but he he

instantly popped.

So he got he hit fire of the

first year.

Got it.

Took me 4 years.

That's still not bad.

I mean, we've been at it for

about 10 years and we're

thinking like any moment now,

we're going to do it.

Yeah, it's it's not an overnight

thing for.

A lot of people.

Dion caught fire the first year.

I mean, he had good cigars and

he was maybe overly picky, but

but he, he nailed it and did

well with it.

But you know, this, it's, it's

not it just so you can't, you

can't go into this business and

think that you're going to make

a cigar and sell it.

You got to make it for yourself

first.

If you make it for yourself

first when no one wants to smoke

it, you get to smoke all of them

and you share with your friends

that really appreciate what you

do.

But if you have the mentality of

like, I'm, I'm going to make

this widget, I'm going to sell a

bunch of them, you're going into

the business for the wrong.

Reason they always fade away.

Yeah, over time, OK in almost

every podcast that I listen to.

Old and crusty.

Old and crusty.

I like them slightly dry.

You always mention.

You always bring up Yanni.

Yeah.

Is it important to you that she

gets acknowledged as the owner

of of the company?

Like, do you feel like, did she

ever get slight in that fashion,

'cause I feel like you put forth

an extra effort to make sure

that she gets the respect that

she deserves.

Yeah, because you know what it

is?

She was the catalyst for that

family, right?

Like my brand for the family was

their catalyst in the sense of

here we are in the United States

and we're making cigars for some

kid with tattoos.

And I had the relationships.

So I knew people from all the

magazines and I knew all these

people and I knew all the other

cigar manufacturers.

So they welcome me, but they

didn't really welcome the

family.

But when it comes to the family,

she took all the risks.

She left Cuba by herself.

So I, it was important that

people know that like she was

the one that that worked three

jobs, saved all of her money to

make sure that her dad could,

you know, could get to Nicaragua

and then they could save more

money and then eventually they

could finally get the whole

family up to the United States.

So it's people have to know that

like this is a like a real like

family and also like the truest

sense that she's really doing a,

a, like a substantial amount of

work in the United States for

that company.

So she has nothing to do with

Tatwai that that's, it's all my

father.

But people should know that, you

know, this is a true family

business.

And it's like, you know, Jaime's

running the factory and, you

know, Papine's pretty much

retired, but Jaime's running the

factory, running all the farms,

running all the logistics in

Nicaragua.

But she's doing everything in

the United States.

And she's got a great team of

people that are making sure that

that happens.

So it's important that, you

know, this is not a man's

industry, that there's a lot of

great women in this industry and

people have to recognize that.

So it's always been important.

Like when there was a dump of

bean cigar and a Jaime Garcia

cigar.

So that's where La Duena comes

in.

I wanted to make her a cigar so

she could have a cigar because

she was always the one on the

road and being and Jaime weren't

traveling.

She was the one on the in the

cigar stores meeting people and

like, you should have your own

brand.

That's how La Duena came up.

I thought when that came out,

man, I thought that was an

amazing cigar.

Thank you.

Sure, I.

Didn't know that you did it.

To be honest, I had no idea you

blended it.

No one told me that.

That's She was a big fan of

Larry Casa.

OK, that makes sense.

And I knew I wanted to kind of

do a hybrid of what Larry Casa

was.

I didn't obviously want to just

put Larry Casa with love Dwayne,

your band and I love broad leaf

because I, you know, screw it.

Let's put a little broad leaf in

the filler, make it a little

sweeter, maybe a little stronger

in some cases.

But mid priming, it's not going

to be too, too strong, right?

But the most important thing was

to get something really

balanced.

And sometimes it's tough to mix

that amount of broad leaf to get

a balanced cigar, of course.

Especially San.

Andreas So it took me took me

about a month to get the blend

perfectly fine.

But then I worked on samples for

about a year just to make sure

the rollers were, you know,

bunching them correctly.

When you start using broad leaf

in that capacity, you're always

worried and especially when

you're not using draw testers.

Now they they have a few of

them, but when you weren't using

draw testers, you're always

worried that the bunches are

going to over bunch.

Especially if it's a heavier

cigar.

Yeah.

You know, OK, now you also talk

about how you didn't want kids

you didn't want.

No, I didn't want kids.

Yeah, in my past relationship, I

didn't want kids.

Eventually, you know, life

happens.

I become single again.

I had no business getting into

another relationship.

I I I really didn't want.

To But you got the kids.

You got the But now I got three

boys.

Yeah, you got the package.

Yeah, that was a that was a

tough transition for me because

I wasn't ready for it, right.

I wasn't sure if I was mentally.

Not my father.

Well, yeah, yeah.

And I didn't want that either.

The most important thing is, you

know, respect your mom, right?

You know, we can be friends, but

if you disrespect your mom,

we're not going to be friends.

Did you ever want more kids

after that?

Did they ever have a moment?

No, the the jokes came up, you

know, like maybe Nah, no, that's

not so we did dogs.

Like like a light moment, like

OK, and then there's, you know,

but that's more on your end or

more on her end or.

What?

No, no, that's, that's, that's

kind of personal, but no, yeah,

but no, it was, it was never, it

was never, you know, like, oh,

we should think about it.

No, we we joked.

Like joked.

I mean, you had three.

There were three there at the

time.

Let's raise the boys.

Yeah, and three boys and

they're.

Good kids.

They're good.

Really good kids.

They're Mopar kids.

I love that.

Yeah, Challenger and a charger.

Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

Like I gotta do that.

I know everything, buddy.

I when I when it comes to.

I mean, I wanted an interview.

They like muscle cars, yeah.

Yeah, but he doesn't get the red

key one's, got the scat pack.

The other one gets the red, you

know, by the way he's, he's, he

has his own house.

He's he's moved out of the

house.

So he has the red key now.

No, I never gave him the red

key.

No dude, the red key's worth it.

By the way, I I got to help.

You know what's funny about the

the Scat pack?

It's actually more powerful than

than the Hellcat without the red

key, Yeah.

I believe that for sure you go.

You've also mentioned that you.

Don't want it deep, by the way.

Damn, Yeah, I'm pretty open, but

man, you dug deep and.

He's like, oh shit, he's he's,

he's striking things.

I don't want to talk about that.

It's like I said, if I ever

cross the line or anything, just

back.

No, you're good, no problem.

It's all a very innocent

conversation, of course.

Am I sweating yet?

No, we're going to put some hot

wings down in a second.

Oh, that.

'D be fun.

Do you want to do this forever?

I mean, there are moments in the

cigar industry that you get

frustrated with the cigar

industry.

Yeah.

Alan Rubin from Alec Bradley

gave me a quote one time.

And Alan Rubin called me one day

and said, hey, just so you know,

I own this trademark.

And I didn't even know how to

answer them.

I was like, Alan, I I had no

idea that you had that that

mark.

My cigar is not called that.

But I kind of understand what

you're saying.

Let me let me do some research.

So we met at the trade show.

This was 2007, actually.

And I said, you know what,

you're doing me a favor.

I said I don't think that

there's anything wrong with what

I did, but you're doing me a

favor because people are

starting to call it that brand,

and it's not that brand.

The brand is called Baraku and

everybody's calling it Lotto

Occidental.

A lot of he owned Occidental and

I said that's just West Side to

me.

So I changed the band to West

Side to avoid confusion with my

own customers because I wanted

them to know that the brand is

Varico.

Not a lot of accidental.

And he goes, you know, this is

how the cigar industry should

be.

And he goes, you know, remember

that 99% of us play well in the

sandbox, and there's always 1%

that doesn't play well.

And just avoid those people.

For sure.

Yeah, for sure.

So who replaces you?

Who replaces Pete Johnson?

I don't know, maybe one of the

kids, maybe my my brother's son,

my maybe my nephew.

Yeah, yeah, he's a good kid.

He's a junior in college.

He really loves the industry.

He's digging come of the trade

shows.

I I always say that like I might

let someone else run it but I'm

always going to be there making

sure they don't fuck it up.

Right finger on the pulse sort

of thing.

Yeah, I mean, again, the

serenity is tough.

Some days, like you, you get

frustrated with like the drama.

Oh.

Yeah, there's always something.

There's always a drama, and I've

been through a lot of it over

the 22 years of having the

brand.

And I saw a lot of drama before

I had my own brand.

I mean, shit, I was part of some

drama that had nothing to do

with me.

But I happened to be, I happened

to be in the Dominican Republic

one time and I got a phone call

from a friend said, Hey,

whatever you do, don't take a

free trip from anybody in the

Dominican right now because

there's some, some shit going

on.

And I'm like, OK, so I learned

my lesson.

Like, OK, someone invited me

down the Dominican Republican.

I kind of, I should have never

said, Oh yeah, sure, I'll go.

I should have said I'll, I'll

meet you down there.

I'll pay for my own way.

So over 3032 years in the

business, you're, you see a lot

of shit happening and then some

days you get frustrated.

And then and I think more than

anything for me is the the

untruths in the industry.

Right, What do you mean bug?

The fuck out of me is.

Untruths.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no way.

No way.

No, never.

Yeah, I, I, there's just too

much bullshit.

There was a time where, you

know, Jesus Fuego Jesus and I

became good friends early on

when his brand was doing pretty

well.

And, and we were, we were like,

let's go on a no bullshit tour

and just spew all the bullshit.

Like just we're going to tell

everybody's fucking lies.

Of course that would have been a

bad idea.

But there's a there's a lot of

it.

Like everybody's got some

grandfather and you know, like

everybody's got something.

And sometimes when you're

telling the truth about

something that people are like,

oh, that's a fucking bullshit

lie.

I'm like, dude, this is the

fucking truth.

When I first wrote my Black

Label story, when I went to

Cuba, people were like, oh,

that's a bullshit story.

I go dude, it happened like

there was a guy in a fucking

Schwinn.

Fucking lived it you.

Gave me the fucking cigar.

Real simple is it's like just

because I said it's on an island

South of Florida that that made

it bullshit.

I didn't want to tell people I

was in Cuba.

Do you do you think like those

experiences have made you kind

of more guarded throughout the

past 20 years of you coming kind

of going in this in the

industry?

Yeah, you, you, you get burned a

lot and you start becoming more

guarded and more introverted,

right?

Like when I was younger playing

music, I wanted to be on stage

in front of thousands of people,

right?

And eventually I, I started

being like, I love

conversational stuff, right?

one-on-one podcast, you know,

one-on-one, you know,

conversations.

I love that, but put me up in

front of a room where I got to

talk to a group.

I fucking hate it.

Like I don't like the microphone

anymore.

I used to love it, but I used to

be able to hide behind my bass

guitar and my hair.

I don't have that hair anymore.

I got photos though.

I got photos with the hair.

Pretty pretty kid, huh?

Yeah, you're cute.

Not anymore.

You got to understand.

I'm I'm 120 lbs heavier than

that photo that you showed me,

£120 heavier.

That's a lot.

I was AI was 145 lbs soaking

wet.

I'm 265 now.

Right.

Yeah, can't eat what you want

all the time.

And I love pizza, dude.

Pizza, pizza and pasta.

I fucking absolutely love it,

Yeah.

All right.

So, but like, so if, if

everything works out with the

nephew, hypothetically, like the

cigar industry is not what it

was 20 years ago, It's vastly

different.

I mean, at that time you were

new, different, edgy, you know,

guy with tattoos.

What's he doing in the industry,

right.

Retailers are different now.

Information that's given to us

is different now.

How do you kind of navigate a a

kid who had has had really no

experience?

Yeah, it's not all that.

It's not really about taking

over the company.

It's really about taking a lot

of the the things that I do and

managing it so I don't have to

do that stuff anymore.

So.

QuickBooks.

You want to take over

QuickBooks.

I do everything I'm the director

of.

I like the servers in my office.

I built them like the the

software that we use for the

reps I put that together like

all this shit.

I.

Didn't build the software I I

managed to.

I structured it to make sure it

worked properly.

I made sure that the system was

running great and I'm in that

system every morning to make

sure the system running tip top.

Because I have a good guy in Los

Angeles that punches numbers

every day.

But he's also heavy-handed and

he hits a button the wrong

button sometimes and he's like,

I can't talk to the server

anymore.

I'm like give me a moment and I

log in remotely.

That I love technology for that

purpose because I can be

anywhere in the world and log in

remotely to the server in Los

Angeles and fix those problems.

But it's really about taking

away the responsibilities of the

bullshit that I do the

day-to-day because I'm

constantly overseeing certain

things, reports.

I would love to spend more time

going back to the creative

because there are projects to do

that I'm three years behind on.

Like, oh hey, when's your jar

coming out?

You know, supposed to be ready

for the 20th anniversary.

I think it's going to be ready

for the 25th anniversary.

Shit like that.

Like, I don't have time for it

because I'm constantly stressing

about making sure that the reps

are getting paid.

You know the taxes are done for

California.

Yeah, you're stuck in the

business and you can't work on

the business.

Yeah.

So it's really finding someone

that can eliminate a bunch of

the crap that I just over stress

about that I'm when I should be

just finalizing projects.

So you would still go out and do

events, You would still, I mean,

you don't do that as much as you

used.

To Yeah, I think my body doesn't

like it as much anymore.

You feel it like today my back's

been killing me because I was

standing up all night.

I didn't sit down once last

night.

That's wild.

So as soon as I got back in into

the hotel room, I lay down in

bed.

I started.

I couldn't go to bed for like an

hour and a half because of my

body was just aching.

Right.

Why don't you just sit down?

Yeah, tonight.

That's why I sat down today.

Yeah, but.

You should have sat down last

night.

It was actually, we came, we

came early just to fucking

chill, right?

Because it was, it was one of

those moments of like, I need to

just decompress, have a cigar

and relax.

And I love that sitting down and

having a cigar and just not

thinking about anything.

Yeah, but waking up every

morning at 6:00 AM and then

going in immediately into the

the system and making sure that

it's running fine.

So, you know, the the reps are

synced and we don't have to

worry about it or coming through

in the wrong in the wrong way.

But I think the.

Parlay is always tough too, like

if I'd I'm obviously not as big

as you guys are right?

But if I have to do you need a

lighter you?

Gotta get.

One, it's fancy to try one, if I

do like an event that's kind of

out of the state, yeah, I don't

like, I don't like to hit other

stores like I'm this kind of

surgical.

Yeah, go in, go out.

I'm.

Fucking in.

If there's if there's a flight

that night, yeah, I'm on it.

No, I know I want to be next to

my wife as soon as possible and

with my kids, you know?

Absolutely yeah, no, like, dude,

I, I, I have a sick dog at home

that I, I want to be home with

my sick dog like, but I know I

have to be out there.

So, I mean, we're driving back

tonight because why not, right?

We'll get, we'll get home at 2-3

in the morning, but who cares?

Well, we're home.

There's nothing better than your

own bed.

No, I totally, I couldn't agree

more.

So I like, I just don't, I don't

know how you do that.

Like, I guess there's there's

some politics to some degree,

like you want to make sure that

retailers never feel slighted.

But I guess at the end of the

day, if you're just kind of

genuine about what you're like,

look man, you know I'm doing

this one and I'll catch you on

the next go round.

Love you, buddy.

I don't, I don't know.

I don't, I don't have that.

I don't.

Yeah, I told my brother a long

time ago because, you know, it's

always events, events, events.

And I'm like, you know, I don't

want to do events.

I just want to go visit people

and thank them for our business,

you know, like, thanks for the

business.

Like let's go into a shop and

hang out and even no one

recognizes me.

Let's just go hang out and with

the cigar store owner and smoke

a cigar with him and buy a cigar

off his shelf and, and do

nothing but that and thank him

for his business and walk out.

We don't need to be about the

sale.

It's not about the sale.

Because when you start focusing

on only the sale, you miss a lot

of what it means to be part of

like a culture.

Sure.

And so the cigar issue is an odd

culture.

It's a very tight knit group.

But at the same time, if you

make it only about selling that

widget, you lose the feel of

what it really means to actually

put your head down on a fucking

pillow at night and actually

sleep good.

There's so many times that you

you, you get out of an event and

you feel like you know that

that's not me.

Like me is just me hanging out.

I mean, you could leave an event

you'd be like, well, that

fucking sucks too.

Like this is, you know, like

that.

That's always the worst when you

show, you know, you put in your

time and your effort and you

show up to a place and there's

three people there and like, you

know, the owner doesn't really

care or like.

I've done a lot of those events

over the years.

Yeah, that that hurts, man.

He's just like, you know?

Yeah, I mean, you know, in the

early days you figured no one

really knows the brand.

Sure.

And it's always nice to to meet

people that that have never

heard of the brand.

I'm like, I always feel like

though there's one more person

that might, you know, be willing

to try the product.

So it, it there's always that

chance that that I mean, for me

always it's like it's, it's a

pleasure to meet people that

have never tried it.

And but usually they're like,

well, sell me a cigarette.

I'm like, hey, what do you like,

right.

And they tell me a certain

brand.

I'm like, yeah, I got nothing

for you.

I'm sorry, OK, I cannot help

you.

Like hey, I smoke Opus XI got

nothing for you.

I don't make Opus X like, I

don't make anything like Opus X

so like.

Cuban cohibas, yeah.

Well, that I could probably

turn.

I could turn your, your, your

mind on that one.

I.

Loved your the black that you

made.

I didn't get to ever smoke the

original jar, but then you re

released it in like a plastic

jar.

Yeah, Melanie, Melanie.

Yeah, that thing was fucking

amazing.

Yeah, that was a big run too.

That was a lot of cigars do.

You still make those or no?

No, that was a one time run.

Well, we still make the cigar,

but it's now in a box.

Box of 20 still looks the same,

just no longer in the jar.

Gotcha.

There was a point in time where

I realized that I needed to

expand that line because it was

a it was a good blend and I

wanted people to taste it.

What's your favorite size

though?

Well, still the Corona Gorda is

one of them.

But I like the Cazadorian.

Yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of

that size, 6 3/8 by 43.

I'm a I'm a nerd when it comes

to sizes.

Like if you talk to other cigar

companies, actually, I've had a

lot of conversations with other

cigar company presidents or

owners and they're like, what's

up with you?

And all these weird sizes?

I go, dude, I'm a traditionalist

when it comes to this shit.

Like it's not 5 3/4, it's 5 7/8,

right?

Like why the 1/8 of an inch I go

just because it's always been

done like that?

Do you?

Struggle to find the molds.

Or no, the molds are easy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the molds, the

molds are really easy because

you could get a a 52 ring gauge

and A7 inch mold.

So now all you have to do is cut

it down to the right size.

That makes sense.

That's easy on a straight

parejo.

It's it's really easy.

But when you start talking about

shapes, I've been I've been

struggling.

You know the bell unk that we do

the Britannica.

And like, you know, what's funny

is like, I don't know nearly as

much about Tatwahe as I probably

should at this point, right?

Because.

That's OK.

So I got one more person then.

Yeah, you do.

You do, You do.

And you know what's even funnier

is like all the customers that

come into our store really don't

know a ton about Tatwahe.

No, it's, it's, it's relatively

a small brand.

And in the grand scheme of if

you think about my father and

then Tatwahe, you go back to

2008.

I remember having a long

conversation with Yanni.

It was, we were both going

through marital things that year

and we spent like an hour and a

half on the phone just talking

about life and talking about

business and, and we were very

open with each other about, you

know, how sales were.

And we were running neck and

neck like the same size company.

And then we were pretty neck and

neck up until about 20/20/2012

with Florida Los Santias.

And that's, that was a game

changer.

That was like a game changer.

I actually, I remember crying

after I heard that they won

because I was like relieved, you

know, you get that moment of

like, fuck, I don't have to work

as hard anymore because now

they're on their own path.

But I always, always felt like I

needed to prove myself in the

factory and be their best

client.

But when they finally got the

the number one, it was like, now

you're your best client.

How you don't you don't have to

worry about me now I can ride in

the back of the train and be

fine with it.

Well.

The pressure's on too, right?

Because you have to continue to

produce.

I mean, if there's fact, if

there's pairs, there's families

involved and you want to make

sure that you're facilitating

that, yeah.

That can be.

So when I knew that they were

going to be their own best

client, I was like, this is a

fucking relief.

So why is it like with the TAA?

Because you do TAA too, right?

So the The Florida Lesson TS San

Andreas wasn't really announced

though on the TAA like press

release.

No, it's not.

It's a, it's available to the

TAA members first, right?

It's not my brand.

So I mean, I shouldn't be

talking about it but.

But I mean you're, I mean you're

kind of affiliated.

I know the gist of it.

The inner workings.

It was made available to the TA

members first, right?

And if they bought it all, then

so be it.

Got it.

But it it's technically not a.

TAA exclusive a TA.

Exclusive.

Got it.

OK.

And I I don't do the TA

exclusive right now.

Right.

Thank you.

I do APCA exclusive, right.

My main concern is making sure

of the organizations that the

bigger organizations that

actually fight in some way for

right what we do are getting

money back.

And then I know the PCA where

the money's going sometimes.

Right.

I have my questions with that

one too, right?

And then the CRA, so I make sure

my, my efforts go to the CRA.

I stopped a lot of advertising

because I wanted to make sure

that any excess money that I had

from marketing could go into

hopefully flipping a little bit

of the bill to help pay for a

legal bill.

So I, I'm a scale wise top to

wise, the smallest company

that's a board member of the

CRA, but a board member of the

CRA.

And I'm going to say this out

loud, ratio I donate the most,

right?

If you have to look at numbers

right like I'm way ahead.

That's wild.

Yeah, just because I believe in

the industry, right?

I mean, this is like, this is

all I got.

Like if, you know, they tell me

one day, hey, the FDA is going

to crush us and we're not going

to be able to sell cigars.

OK, I got a savings, but what am

I going to do right?

You haven't really raised your

prices.

Nah, I won't.

I mean Miami.

Miami prices have gone up

because I pay the rollers more

now.

Realistically, Miami prices at

this point are competitive you.

Know what I mean?

You're actually cheaper than

most Nicaraguan cigars, Yeah.

Isn't that wild?

Yeah, it's it.

And I said one time that I'm

going to raise Miami prices.

We don't pay tariffs in Miami,

right.

So it's one of those things that

I Miami to me is, for lack of

better words, that that's my

Opus X.

You know, that's my that's my

special product that I really

cherish and I really protect as

much as possible because I don't

want it to be, you know, I don't

want it to be on things like

cigar page.

Sorry, cigar page, I don't sell

you.

I know.

I have a big retail store.

Yeah.

What is 66,000 square feet?

Yeah.

In Bethlehem, PA.

Only to piss off CI.

That was it.

That was it.

That's the strategy.

Yeah, you know, I don't need to

get in the middle of their.

Fight.

Oh yeah, no.

But yeah, dude, I, I just, the

industry means too much to me to

like, just like not do something

right.

And it's not like I have an

excess amount of extra cash.

But at the same time, I know

what I can afford.

And if I have to eliminate a

page or two or three or four in

a magazine to put more money to

maybe help, right, I'll do it.

But I have my moments of like,

frustration, right?

It's not easy to be in a room

with the.

I mean the fucking UTL in

itself.

Well, that was a pain in the

ass.

Yeah, and the way that the

lawsuits were filed, it seems

like shit's messy as hell.

Yeah, like I decided to take a

back seat on it, right?

But I knew that because my

father is my importer and my

manufacturer and I could not

even register any of my Utls by

myself.

They have to, they have to, and

I'm an authorized user on the

account so I can register it,

but I couldn't register it

because they're my manufacturing

and, you know, an importer.

So I'm like, OK, I'm protected

either way.

So like if, if they win the,

let's say they win the lawsuit

and it only goes, it only

protects the people that are in

the lawsuit, I'm protected

because my, my product comes

from them.

So I was like, I'm also in

California as a retailer.

I mean, as a distributor kind of

probably put a target on my back

in California, right?

So I didn't want to ruffle any

feathers.

Would you ever pull out of your

office out of Cali or that's

going to stay forever?

Potentially.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you're here now.

You're in Florida.

I'm in Florida, but you know,

the retailers, I came from a

retail background.

So I understand like the cost

that go into running a retail

store.

And I understand the frustration

of like when someone gets a a

shipment and the shipping is $86

for 14 boxes.

Wow, you're like, come on, I can

ship that same box for $23.

You know, like even if we make

$5 a shipment to pay for the box

and the tape, right, at least

our shipping rates are way

cheaper because and everything's

getting to every retailer in the

country within three days.

So I'd rather do that.

But California is tough, man.

It's not an easy state to do

business in so.

Do you have like strategies to

to when you distribute like a

monster series or something like

that, Like half goes to Florida,

half goes to to Cali?

Yeah, it's, it's about a 6535

ratio.

But now we've been covering

Texas also because Texas is

within three days either from LA

or from from Cali.

Cali, sorry, LA or Miami.

Oh, sorry.

So if you talk about West TX,

that's you might as well be in

Arizona, right?

So that point that, that, that

goes out of LA, right.

So we've been picking up about

7030, the ratio 7030 because

we're going to cover more on the

the east side of the country.

Do you like catch shit from

retailers and like, hey, where's

mine?

I see everybody else has got it.

I mean.

Yeah, that's, that's always the,

the, the trouble because like

sometimes the, the delay in the

freight that will goes out to LA

that gets delayed and we were

already starting to move the

product from here, right?

But we ship the furthest

distance first, right?

And the Florida retailers get it

last, but they, they usually get

it the same day that the other

guys get it, that they were

shipped 4 days earlier or three

days earlier, right?

Like the Boris, the new Boris

Karloff, we actually had him sit

in the warehouse in both

locations for a week before we

moved them that way.

We shipped at the same time.

And that one, we're shipping

about 70% out of Miami and 30%

of LA because California is

still a big market for us,

right?

Arizona is a big market for us.

Before you started.

Yeah, no, yeah, I can't ignore

California.

That's why I had to register a

small portion of My Portfolio.

It's a big portfolio.

It's not for everybody, but

there are certain brands we

could see that obviously do

better there.

And we're like, OK, we'll, we'll

make sure that that these ones

get registered.

And I think the California

retailers appreciate it.

But I'm like, whatever you do

like at the first of the year

comes make sure you you hide all

that other stuff, right?

If it's not on my list, just

don't put it out.

I mean, I can't.

It's wild that they're gonna

that we think that they're gonna

go knocking on these doors and

going after.

You never know.

I, I've lived through it because

I, I actually, when I was

working retail in California

when the cigarettes and the

flavored cigarette ban came into

effect, I happen to have one

pack of cigarettes I forgot

about in the store that I was

working at on the shelf.

I think it might have been like

a, some like mint flavor that

Sherman or something like that.

I can't remember what it was or

Al Capone sweet.

Maybe it was that.

And the guy came in and goes,

I'm with the state and show me

his badge.

And he goes just checking to

make sure you have all the tax

stamps and all your cigarettes.

OK.

And by the way, this this is not

on the the list, so I'm going to

have to confiscate it.

I'm like, take it.

It's one.

Pack they took.

It Oh yeah, they took it.

That's the worst part, knowing

that they can come in and just

take it from you.

And this is shit that we paid

taxes on tobacco tax that we're

never going to get back.

So like that's the that's the

fear part for California.

It's like the thousands of

different brands that you see on

the shelf and maybe half of

those are going to be registered

and they walk in and go, hey,

you know.

We're going to take all this.

All this is illegal.

We need to take it and then the

fines like $50.50 dollars, $50.

And then if it's on the, if you

get another fine, it double S

and if it and it could go up to

like $10,000 and you're like,

come on.

And they don't even know what

they're doing.

It's like when the FDA came in,

they, they had no clue what the

fuck they were going to do with

anything.

They were they just hey, we're

going to collect user fees from

you guys.

Give us what is it?

4 1/2 cents every cigar, 4 1/2

cents, four and a half cents.

You know, if there's ever a time

where where the the ruin comes

clean and it's really vacated

and then all the manufacturers

go back and say you were never

allowed to take that money from

us, we want our money back.

Yeah, A.

Lot of money.

Well, good luck with that, Yeah.

Right, you never know all.

Right.

One kind of last question and

I'll let you off the hook.

No, dude, I'm open.

I know this is a hour and a half

buckets.

We're only at 55 minutes.

Yeah, so Pete Hernandez.

Yeah.

Yeah, I want to talk about Pete.

I prefer Paul and Steve.

I'm I'm going to get to Paul.

I'm going to get to Paul.

But the reality is that the only

reason why we open back up to

Tuai.

Was Pete.

Was Pete.

Really.

Yeah.

No, There you go.

Pete got acts from DTT.

Pete from Tuai.

As you as you know, like how the

how the world works when it

comes to brokers, more often

than not brand builds and you

know, whatever the reason is you

decide to start going to people

in house right more that's

usually the.

Oh yeah, the most brands, most

brands do that.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, not me.

Yeah, No, not you, not you and

I.

Got MO Everybody loves MO

everybody.

Loves MO.

I love MO before he was Tat MO.

Yeah.

So for one, why do you not do

that?

I look, listen, these guys I

grew up with they, I've known

them before they were top to Y

salespeople.

I've known them when they were

Cao sales guys.

I know them where they're

working for all these other

companies back in the day.

They're family to me, like and

if the numbers are there, why do

I care about going in house?

You're good with them getting

paid.

Yeah, and and listen, I joke

with Pete all the time and like,

stop calling yourself Pete from

top to Y because you're Pete

from all those other brands or

and all these other things.

But I only fired one Rep.

Kids name is Tavin Johnson.

Good kid.

But he ended up doing drugs at

an event and I felt horrible

that I had to get rid of them.

But he thanks me because he

ended up cleaning his life up.

Get this shit together.

Got his shit together, ends up

working for another bigger cigar

company and he's doing really

well with that cigar company.

Actually, I think he won

Salesman of the year one year

you.

Got to be careful with that.

You usually get fired the next

year.

No, yeah, no.

But he, he tells me all the

time, like, dude, if you didn't

fire me, I wouldn't clean my

shit up.

And again, I go back to the

whole things, like if these guys

are producing numbers, why do I

need to look elsewhere?

Right.

Yeah, I mean, everybody's happy.

I wish that everybody had that

mindset though, you know, Like,

that's the crazy part.

Having a good group around you

that trusts you and believe in

you is way, way more important

than just, you know, hiring some

guy out of Coca-Cola or or you

know, Budweiser to to sell

cigars for you just because you

can save a few bucks.

I I totally agree.

Yeah.

I want to talk about Paul.

I still have his phone number in

my phone, so I have his picture

in my profile.

His profile.

I never got to meet him, that

was before before my time, but I

hear about this guy all the time

I want.

To get your perspective, Paul

was great because, you know, we

had the brand Kabai One in the

first few years and he would go

into cigar stores and lay a

Kabai One down on the counter

and then the retailer wouldn't

even pay attention to it and he

would pick it back up and

they're like, where are you?

Where are you going with that

cigar?

And they're like, you didn't

care about it.

I put it down.

Plus you can't even pronounce

the name, so go fuck yourself.

He goes, no, you're going to

sell me this area is no, you

don't even know how to pronounce

it.

Paul was brutally honest.

That's the whole Hernandez

family is though.

Paul was the funniest shit too,

man.

He used to do this thing at the

great smoke back when Abe

started the great Smoke where

he'd bring this machine.

He was working for Fonseca at

the time.

He brought this machine that

would like, like a draw tester,

but it would like he put it in

the holster and then he would

light the cigar and it would

puff, puff, puff, and it

perfectly light your cigar,

right.

And he had a line of people

waiting for us for their free

cigars.

And people would be like, I just

want my cigar.

And he's like, get in the back

of the line, dude.

You got to wait for like

everybody else.

He didn't care.

But yeah, Paul, Paul was a tough

one when we lost him.

How did you how did you find

him?

Part of the old group, dude,

like I knew these guys from the

trade shows I'd run into them

and we became friends and they

were all like CEO reps and I

used to hang out with the guys

from Cao a lot.

So I met all these guys early

on.

So when it came time to have my

own brand and, and shit, I got

to get some salespeople.

Well, who do you go to?

You go to the you go to who you

know and you.

I knew all these guys like I

knew Terry Coleman from LA and I

knew, you know Tom Pohler.

I knew the Pohler family and I I

still think that I picked a

better polar out of all the all

the polars because one of the

other polars works for my wife's

company.

But Tom will tell you he he

invented everything for Julio

Arroa.

He's the guy.

Yeah, no, I've known these guys

forever.

So it's like it's easy and I I

usually choose the the path of

least resistance because I I

don't like the stress.

So sometimes it's just easier.

Like, OK, yeah, this is going to

work.

And like when MO when there was

a guy named Ted, also there was.

Tri-state.

In the tri-state area and it was

the question was like, we can go

in house with these, these two

guys and, and MO and I were

sitting at the Holtz bar in, in

Philadelphia and he goes just

just trust it.

And like I was, I was kind of

unsure and I, I remember getting

in the car and I was like, I

told Casey and Dan, I said, I

just don't want to disappoint

these guys.

Like I don't want to, I don't

want to hire them and then fuck

it up.

So it was like really like, you

know, it's easy when you have

just a broker because you're

paying their.

Percentage what you got to do?

You go out and sell, you're

going to pick up other brands.

Like I don't want to bring an in

house guy and have him be

disappointed.

So it was a struggle at 1st and

then eventually it's it's worked

out great and most picked up a

bigger territory.

Now, you know, Ted passed sadly

last year and we split up the

territory, brought in a new guy

named Adrian to cover a part of

where Ted was at, and then MO

got a piece of that also.

But yeah, he's doing great, man.

His territory might be a little

too big, but he likes getting on

the road so.

Do you feel more protective of

of Pete and Steve because of

Paul?

Oh yeah, and I like Steve

better.

Than well, I know you like Steve

more than I, I learned that over

the like the past eight months

or so that.

You again?

I give Pete shit, but I mean, we

all do actually.

But yeah, when Paul passed, it

was really like, you know, this

is, this is family.

Steve left.

We we had a great, we had a

great Rep in Georgia, you know,

the Georgia area when Steve was

up there.

And then he came back to Miami.

Like we lost a Rep in in Georgia

where we were struggling in that

territory for years.

Finally we have a new Rep in

that area and he's doing really

well.

And someone that I used to sell

cigars to, he was a retailer at

one time and he gets the brand,

he understands it and is doing

really well with it.

But we struggled in that

territory for a long time.

So yeah, yeah.

Jesus, Stevie, Stevie.

Even when I need him to cover at

the at the office, he'll come

in, you know, but.

You take care of your guys, man.

Like that's fucking, that's

important.

That's amazing.

Because you don't like, I'm

going to tell you like I have

seen Pete.

I mean, if you go back to what

Pete repped five years ago.

Yeah, you know, Tantua is the

only one.

Yeah, I mean, like he used to.

He used to cover Fuego.

He what?

What else you guys used to

cover?

I mean, there was so much, you

know?

I mean, yeah, Quesada was a big

one.

EP Ernie.

Yeah.

A lot of these guys at one time

had a Lugione.

Yeah, Lugione.

Yeah, Aladino.

Like I, I was thinking like,

listen, if they're going to lose

these guys, then maybe they'll

work harder to sell more top

live products.

I think, well, you've always

kind of been the cornerstone,

right?

You've always been the bigger

brand, I would say.

Sometimes, you know, I mean like

we, we use a paralis, Mike

paralis impact force and my

father uses them also, but

Mike's like family also is like,

it's hard to like steer away

from that, right?

So you know, like definitely my

father's the cornerstone for

impact force, but they do really

well for us.

Also.

It's hard to it's hard to

compete against three number

ones, right?

Like and I'm not, I'm not

looking to have the stress level

of of shipping that much product

either.

Yeah.

And it's still kind of a win

even if it's not your brand,

right?

It's what's good for the factory

is.

Good for you as well.

Ultimately, it's great for the

factory and it's great for

everybody that's in the factory.

Like so when Robbie Levin came

to the family and said, I want

to make cigars with you, the

first thing that everybody

talked about was like what's

going to happen with top DWAI?

He's going to get pushed to the

back.

And I didn't see it that way.

Like I really like Robbie's

validating everything that I've

been doing.

Like this is a guy that was one

of my mentors and here he is

coming into the factory that I

help, you know, boost up.

This is validating my work.

So it ended up paying off.

I, I knew I was always going to,

you know, have first dibs at

certain things because I knew

the inner workings of where the

factory needed to shift.

Like I saw the movements that

were make the, the chess moves

that they had to make to make

sure that they, they had certain

tobaccos.

I saw that before anybody else

because I was in the factory so

much.

So it was easy for me to pivot,

right?

Do you ever blend with like hey

we have a lot of XYZ?

All the time.

Right, this is what we got to

produce.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's like out of necessity.

We make small cigars out of

necessity.

What are we going to do with all

that scrap wrapper, right?

You know what that scrap wrapper

works on?

It's 4 by 40s, right?

So you make a lot of cigars with

A4 by 40 scrap wrapper, you

know.

Was was sex tooth in the hung

jury too or no?

Yeah, he's, no, he wasn't in the

band.

He's in the documentary though,

Yeah.

He's cool as shit, man I.

Got to talk to him.

Andreas is great man.

He, I've known him for shit a

long time now and we met later.

So I by this time I was already

in the cigar business working

retail and I was a member of the

Grand Inventor Room and his

brother became a member of the

Grand Inventor Room.

Of course, Fast forward when I

had the brand, he was really

supportive of the brand and I

was always supportive what he

was doing with his music, right?

And I still have his original CD

that he gave me.

But one day it was 1 drunken

evening on their patio up up

behind.

They live just behind the Comedy

Store in LA and there's like

this back patio of their house

that it's just really peaceful

and it's kind of like an inner

sanctum.

Like this is where we just shoot

the shit and do nothing for

hours and drink wine and smoke

cigars and Andreas doesn't drink

anymore.

And I was like, I want to use

your name for a brand.

He goes, what I got to do this?

I think sex should be a fun

project.

I go, but it has to be a

reflection of you.

So I need to we need to go deep

and and figure out what sizes

you like.

Like what do you like in sizes?

And I go, I think we should name

them after your songs.

Nice.

And, and he actually had one

size that he wanted to call fast

and slow.

I go Nah, dude.

The, the small one has to be

fast and slow because the, that

small one's actually a little

kicker.

So you need to go slow while

you're smoking something you

think you're going to go fast

on.

Was it like a cigar that you

built that a necessity to help

him out on something?

Was he looking for like another

revenue stream or just a fucking

legit passion project?

No, it's a passion project.

It's just like everyone.

I told my brother, I'm like, I'm

going to do a project with

Andreas, and he goes, what?

And I go, yeah, it's going to be

called Sex Tooth.

He goes his stage name.

I go, yeah, I go, this is going

to be fun, but we're going to

make up a legit, you know, we're

going to make a legit good cigar

and we're going to price it,

right.

It's good.

It's damn good.

We priced it the small 1.

Fast and slow is at 5:50.

That's incredible.

And the the Rothschilds at 7:50,

the the four and a half by 60s

at 8:25 and the 5 by 58

Bellicoatos at 8:50.

I was super impressed with him

because like, I like to walk.

No, he's AI really mind.

Yeah, I but I want.

Definitely on the spectrum.

Right, That's perfect.

That's probably why I gravitated

towards Yeah, because like I

walk into the PCA and I try my

best to have like high energy,

right?

Because it's very easy to.

You kicked in your Dick, fucking

thrown in the yeah, you know

what I mean?

So like, I'm, I go in with a

high tempo, right?

And I don't even remember what I

said to him, but he instantly

clapped back at me.

I was like, oh, I like you.

You're all right.

No, he's good, He's good.

He I'll tell you, it makes it

one of the best espressos you'll

ever drink.

Really, he's like a master when

it comes to coffee.

You get him, we're going to get

him a green apron for next PCA.

Yeah, well, that.

Well, that was the, that was the

whole joke.

It's like, you know, poor man's

luxury.

That's the theme.

And we were like, yeah, we

should put you in the booth next

year playing your guitar, but

we'll put a Louis Vuitton trunk

in front with money inside of

it.

And you're looking for tips, but

you somehow have a Louis Vuitton

guitar in a in a 1960s Gibson.

You know, this is going to be a

weird because that that the

guitar is worth than most

people's like life's, you know,

life's work, you know, yeah, no

doubt.

But he he's just he's got a

brilliant mind.

And I I just love having a

conversation with me.

But he was doing a movie Higgin

Machado, the the UFC guy.

He did a movie called how blow

for blow, kind of a, you know,

family movie, but fight movie,

like family drama, a lot of

fighting going on.

And he played one of the dads

and he goes, I need a cigar.

That's kind of like the like the

the Jeroboam, the half Jeroboam

that De Niro used in Cape Fear

because he likes short fat

cigars.

And I was like, I, I don't have

anything in production aside

from like the the Coho new

Series A, which is a 5 by 60.

So I made him a special batch

where the bands actually up

where a band should be normally,

right?

So he could promote it in the

movie.

And you know, they thanked me in

the movie for supplying cigars

for it.

That's cool.

You know, like I didn't know he

did.

Acting too.

Yeah, he, he wasn't, he wasn't

really into acting.

He was a poet, musician.

And then they asked him to do

this part.

And he's good friends with Billy

Worth, one of the Lost Boys.

I don't even remember Billy

Worth.

He was the guy with the long

black hair and the Lost Boys.

And Billy helped train him like,

so he could figure out how to do

all this shit right.

The two of the two brothers are,

they're an interesting 2

characters, man.

They, they know everybody.

Like, I don't know half of

Hollywood.

They know all of Hollywood.

Yeah, like.

That's cool.

I'll be in a room like, oh,

that's, that's like the most

famous DJ in the world.

I'm like, I could give a shit,

whatever.

Like, but then like they have a

personal relationship with the

guy.

They have pictures of everybody

you could think of in their

house, like Keanu Reeves with

her mom and inside their house.

Like, well, he's easy to get

along.

With no, yeah, they're, they're

just good people, man.

And and he's a great

conversation.

Like he, he really, you can sit

down and have a conversation

with me because he's, he's

really versed on everything.

Oh shit.

And I love people like that

because I'm not versed on a lot

other than maybe a few cigars,

right?

But like George Brightman, I

don't know if you know who.

George Brightman.

Yeah.

George Brightman is a super big

mentor of mine, I think.

He likes us too much.

But yes, really.

Yeah.

George, he has me blocked.

He blocked.

He blocked.

George has me blocked.

Well, George.

George was like the

encyclopedia.

He's super.

Intelligent.

He knows a ton.

And like George is one of those

guys that I I with this

documentary I'm doing that's a

hand rolled top to Y version,

right?

It's really a story about my

growing up during the boom, but

it's also the people that were

around me, right?

So George is one of them.

He's in a lot.

Aaron Sigmund, the the guy who

does all the the coffee table

books.

They used to be the editor for

Smoke magazine back when I was

back around.

Tony Brahani, Bahia, I don't

remember Bahia cigars.

We put him in the documentary of

Tim Osgoner, of course, because

he had an interaction with Tony

back then.

John Huber, a little bit of

Carlito.

Just a mishmash of everybody.

Can we get George like a camera?

Have you seen him on some of the

podcasts?

Like, yeah, it's horrible.

That's that's a common start.

George, yeah, there's a ton he's

got.

To get a better camera.

He's got a vast amount of info,

right?

And he can talk for hours, but.

The the wealth of knowledge that

he has.

So he's actually in, he's.

Got him a good chair.

Not only in the the hand ruled

top Y version, but he's also in

the Julio row version because

when they're interviewing for

the top Y version, the film guys

are good about we got this guy

sitting down.

Why don't we ask him about these

other brands, right?

So there's always enough

information that oh, we'll get a

snippet somewhere.

So there's, you know, like

Carlito's in the documentary,

yes, they caught, they caught a

snippet from the first one

talking about my tattoo of the

Opus X tattoo that I got right.

So they made, they put they made

sure they put in that snippet.

That's cool.

When they were filming the JC

Newman story, they made sure to

capture some stuff from like

Sabona from Cigar Aficionado

talking about top to Y because

they knew they were going to do

the top to Y thing.

So it's a that's a fun project.

But George was, you know, George

does that guy that you can have

a conversation with because you

just have to listen.

There's sometimes I disagree

with him.

Yeah, we make fun of him because

I think that Palmer would say

that he he created Davidoff or

something like that.

But it was a joke, you know what

I mean?

Like, you know.

Well, you could say that same

thing about Tom Poehler.

He'll tell you that, that we

always joke like, hey, Tom, you

know you created Julio Arau.

Right.

You are the founding father of

Julio.

All right, I'm going to let you

off the hook, dude.

Do you have any questions for

me?

What do you want to know?

What am I smoking again?

I have no idea.

No, that's the war Baron.

It's the new.

Warbearer, the new Grand

Protection.

It's got the Yeah, you said San

Andreas on the on the band or

the Yeah, it's a the ribbon.

Yeah.

What's the rapper again doing?

Habana, Ecuador.

Habana, Yeah, which I'm sure it

came from Oliva.

Probably.

You know, what's funny is like

Jeremiah asked me a question too

about the San Andreas and like,

it's it's probably turrent.

I actually confirmed it later.

Yeah, but I honestly don't know.

Like, you know what's?

Yeah, there's not.

There's not a lot of producers

and Turrent's like the biggest

so it's easier to get from them.

Yeah, but what's really kind of

funny for me is that was never

my aspect, my part of that.

I you know, I always counted on

Skip to provide the tobacco.

Yeah, to make sure you had that

wrapper.

To use and I know that whatever

he has, it's going to be good

so.

Yeah, and, and that's what

Skip's good at it.

He's going out and searching for

because we had a conversation

about this.

He's he's the the brand or the

factory that that's going and

looking for the exact tobacco

that he needs.

And as a polar opposite, you

look at the Garcias, they're

growing all this shit and we

have all access to all this

stuff.

But then like, it's not always

that we're going to have dark

broad leaf.

So we use, you know, those

Rosato mid priming leaves to to

make different cigars.

That's a misconception in the

industry.

Everybody thinks that broad leaf

is going to be dark and

everybody thinks that San

Andreas is going to be dark.

It's not the not the reality.

You.

Can get blonde, broad leaf

pretty, it's going to darken up

naturally because of the, the

sugar levels and the way it the

way it ferments.

But you're never, you're never

going to always get like super

dark unless you start cooking

it.

But you don't want that because

it comes like an onion leaf, you

know, Or onion skin.

And a lot of your consumers this

day, I think, are getting

smarter than that, you know?

I think it's important for the

consumers to, to ask questions

and be knowledgeable about what

they're smoking.

Because if, if you go into it,

there's some people that just

want to smoke a cigar and they

don't care about it.

But the people that, that want

to know about it, you should,

you should educate about what

they're.

Because the more knowledge they

have, the more power they have,

the more they can make choices.

And they, they, they realize

like, Hey, I don't like that

wrapper.

I've tried multiple cigars with

that wrapper.

I want to stay away from that

wrapper.

And that way when you walk into

your store and you say, listen,

man, I don't like San Andreas.

Don't give me anything with San

Andreas.

There's some guys the complete

opposite.

So the more knowledge they have,

the easier job is and you can

instantly, instantly put them

into something that that you

know they might like, right?

As long as they say hey, I only

smoke Opus X.

As long as you're getting data

from the reliable source, right?

Because, like, that's always a

big problem.

Yeah.

I mean, when we started using

San Andreas, it wasn't Tarrant

like it was another, another

place.

It could have probably come from

Tarrant, but it was coming from

a broker, right?

So we don't know.

I don't know, right?

But I would always see

Alejandro.

And I was like, hey, you know,

the stuff I do with Andreas

probably taste better if it was

yours.

And then he would laugh.

And then one day, hey, by the

way, we're getting all our St.

Andreas from Taran.

OK, cool, right.

I don't even know if we still

do, right?

I'll be honest, right?

I don't know if we still do

because there are other people

that have access to good leaf.

Right.

And that's not essentially what

you do, you know?

I'll promote Oliva Tobacco,

right?

Because when we were down and

out looking for rapper and we

were searching for, we couldn't

find Coroho in good supply back

in the early 2000s.

And Papine came to me and says,

hey, listen, there's a company

called Oliva Tobacco.

I go, I know it.

They have this Habano.

And I was like, Habano 2000 got

a shitty fucking track record,

you know, burn issues in the

early days.

Eventually, that leaf corrected.

Itself.

They figured it out.

So I I had Papine roll me every

cigar in my line with a Habano

and I was like, it's not enough,

enough of a change to really,

you know, like make people go,

wow, this is way different,

right?

I'll notice it.

But at the same time, it's a

it's a good change.

They burned better back in.

Back in those days, the Coroho

was burned like shit, crooked

all the time.

Right.

So when I switched, I made sure

to tell people because I didn't

want people going.

Oh, yeah.

You're still using Crow?

Yeah, I'm still using.

Crow like Ashton heritage.

Yeah.

You know, don't worry else you.

Don't have to the Yeah, I didn't

want to.

I didn't want to be that guy.

Like, because, you know, I'm a

bad liar when it comes to that

shit.

Yeah.

The problem is you can just

never keep it straight, you

know?

More lies you tell is harder to

tell the truth, right?

Dude, I don't fucking remember

anything, you know what I mean?

Like if somebody says, oh, we

met, I'm like, OK, was I wasn't

a Dick, right?

And like, no, you're awesome,

OK.

Oh, dude, I've had moments where

I've had moments where people

are like, I met you 10 years

ago.

I'm like, dude, I don't

remember.

I might have been a fucking

complete asshole.

Right.

Yeah.

Like I might have been in a bad

state that.

Well, I mean, I could tell you

the first couple years of us

trying to meet the TWI, I

couldn't get a fucking sample.

I was laughed at for like, I

didn't understand it and like

the whole game.

I remember when La Tierre came

out and I don't remember who the

guy was, but you know, we're

still in our infancy.

But we were super excited about

it.

Like, oh, this looks pretty

cool.

Like, can we try a cigar?

And.

Might have been my my buddy

Robert.

He's like the gatekeeper.

Could have been a.

Long hair, beard.

I don't remember dude this.

Big guy Gene.

Gene's like a comedian.

He's like, he just likes to bust

people.

'S yes.

So I was like, you know, hey,

can we try something?

He's like, no, we don't have any

for you like.

OK, it could have been Andy too.

And then and then, and then like

I remember just kind of stepping

away and as we're walking away,

fucking watch other people come

up poop.

Here's the samples.

Like mother fuck dude, damn.

Yeah.

It, it, I think a lot of times

the guys, if they, if they

didn't know that, that the

retailer was like maybe placing

an order with us at the trade

show, we wouldn't give a sample

of.

Course, it's tough to read.

It's tough to figure out, right?

Like you don't you?

It's not a Halloween trick or

treating, you know what I mean?

And.

Yeah, usually.

Usually if you catch me, it's

I'm always the guy that hey,

give me a sample, give me a

couple sticks and put them in a

bag and give them to these guys

because I don't know.

Half the time I don't even know

who I'm talking to.

Well.

I think that more often than not

though, even if you had, when

you have that kind of guideline,

you're still doing yourself.

You're still helping yourself.

Because more often than not, the

retailer that's coming around

looking for the sample, 70% of

them are going to be fucking

just there to take the cigar.

I've watched it over the years,

even when I was in the retail

side trade shows, I'd go into

booths and hey, can I get a

sample?

And they're like, no, like,

like, you know, I'm legitimately

looking for your product to put

in the store and have a good

conversation with him and warm

up to him and then OK, yeah,

here, try it out.

And I'm like, well, I want to

order this particular line.

But I've seen a lot of retailers

over the years, like they just

come to the trade show to, to

grab, grab, grab.

And next thing you know, you're

like walking through a store

that doesn't carry your product

and you see your cigar in a bin,

like a closeout bin for 5 bucks

or 3 bucks and you're like fuck.

You ever you ever get wood where

you see somebody sits down at

the trade show, they write the

whole order, then they just

don't give you credit card

information and ghost you.

As far as contact, I bet just

D's had that.

Yeah, I mean, we get that a few

times.

Yeah, it's wild.

Like why did you sit down?

Yeah, yeah, I've.

I've had multiple conversations

with people like, oh, we want to

have a meeting with you and sat

down like these guys going to

actually, what the fuck is going

on?

Yeah.

But they're never writing really

a big order, right.

There was one time where it was

early 2004, I had Jaime Garcia

in my booth rolling cigars while

I was running around the trade

show buying for the Grand Havana

Room, right.

Because I still had to do that

job.

And I got a phone call from a

buddy that says, hey, there's a

guy in your booth that it's

smoking one of your Sir, your

SWS.

We call Sir Winston SWS, he

wants to order.

And it was Barton from

Ambassador.

OK.

And he goes, I want to order

your product.

And I said OK, like, and he

wrote this order and I looked at

the order and I was like, holy

shit.

Like, do you want all these at

once?

I was like, scared.

I don't know the guy.

We became best friends, like,

and he's one of those retailers

I can count on.

And he's truly family, you know?

But he took a chance on a small

brand and he's always been

there, right?

Even when we were small, he knew

he had something special, right?

But he he wrote that order.

I was like, I can break it up

and choose shipments.

He goes, no, ship it all at

once.

I go, are you serious?

He goes, yeah, here's my credit

card information.

I go, I don't even know if I can

charge a credit card yet.

Like I don't even know how to do

that.

How do we do this?

Like back then it was like, oh,

we're we're on, you know, it's

terms and you send a check in.

Like when we finally did credit

cards, it was like, well, we're

getting advanced right now.

We're really advanced.

Yeah, I had to reset, lose this

shit on me because I wouldn't do

terms, you know?

It's a small company, Yeah.

It's just.

Like, hey, you don't do terms

like no, he's like what's

happened with this industry?

He's like, I don't fucking know.

I didn't know that that was a

thing, but like, I can't.

How many times have I been

burned on terms?

Right.

Like fuck.

I got burned on terms on guys

that got monsters when I was

doing the unlucky 13.

I would pick a retailer and

like, hey, you seem to be doing

good with the product.

Here's the here's the unlucky

13.

Oh, you sold all the product?

Yeah, but I'm going out of

business.

Like what the fuck?

And then, you know, is that that

starts to hurt.

You have to write off bad debt.

I had one retailer in Florida.

He owed me like $1800 for years.

I never bugged him, right?

I knew the guy in the industry

and I and I had friends that

knew him pretty well and he's

pretty stand up.

And he came up to me at the

trade show.

I was at the bar, at the Circle

bar in the Venetian and came up

to me goes, you know, I've owed

you money for like 4 years and

you never bugged me and I went

through some hard times and now

I'm in a good space and he

fucking handed me a check.

No shit.

And the check cleared.

Damn.

I go.

That's that.

That's a fucking man.

Yeah.

You took care of business.

Well, you didn't have.

He didn't have to either.

He could have just said about

it.

You wrote it off.

Yeah, I mean, he should have

probably checked in, you know

what I mean?

Like, hey, I know I still owe

you this.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, it's admirable

that he did that, but like.

There's always the term people

that like, hey, it's net 30 and

like it's, it's a.

Net 90, yeah, like, oh, isn't

that 90?

Yeah.

I, I did a project for a

retailer who's no longer in the

business, but as an apology, he,

I go, dude, what, what was going

on?

You got to pay for this bill and

it was a big project, right?

And it was a, it was a pretty

historic release that we did.

He sold everything and he came.

He goes, dude, I just can't pay

you right now.

I go, why?

He goes, I, I paid this company

and this company because they

were threatening to, you know,

shut my account down.

I'm like, dude, but you paid

them with my money, right?

Are you serious?

And he goes, dude, I he goes,

I'm going to cover you.

I promise I'm going to cover

you.

And he finally paid me and they

brought me a bottle of Chateau

Lafitte as a gift.

Oh shit.

As a like sorry for.

Right for paying everybody else

for.

Paying everybody else with your

money and sorry for being net,

you know, 150 I think it was.

Damn.

Yeah, that was tough.

That's hard, especially when

you're growing.

When?

You're a growing company.

You can't afford that.

Like, I don't do Cods anymore.

That COD thing, like just

completely.

I got burned on that so many

times.

The check would bounce.

And this is before UPS started

covering the check, right?

Because they would first, you

know, check to make sure that

went through, and then they

would distribute a check to you,

right?

I stopped that a long time ago

because I got burned so many

times.

But yeah, it's business

sometimes just, it really

frustrates you.

Hell yeah.

And I, I, that's what the, the

hard part of the business for

me.

I like, I, I don't want the

stress level.

I just want to, just want to

sell a cigar that means

something to me.

I don't want to sell a widget,

right?

I want to sell cigars with a

reason.

Like I got an order.

I was telling Steve, I got an

order from a distributor in an

international territory and they

wanted 800 boxes of, of mummies.

Holy shit.

And I said no, right.

I go I can get you 50.

That's a big difference.

Like I can get you 50 like and

he goes, yeah, but it's a big

order.

I go, yeah, but I know they're

going to that territory and

there's billions of people in

that territory and they'll

probably get lost in that

territory completely.

But I also don't want 800 boxes

of mummies out there that

shouldn't have been made in the

1st place. 50I can peel off an

extra 50, but don't ask me for

800, right?

You come to me and say, hey, I

want 500 boxes of a of a, you

know the Lance Arrow samplers.

Yeah, that's easy.

Regular production.

You want 500 boxes of a of a

broad leaf Taino, sure, I'll

make you that, but it's regular

production.

But don't come to me and ask me

for something that I need to

protect because I've been

through so many like dealings

with with the people trying to

sue me over the name.

Well, 11 particular company that

I'm like.

Yeah, I'm.

Like, you know, if someone's

going to try to step on that,

I'm going to, I'm going to

protect it.

So I have to be that asshole.

Kind of like when, you know,

Fuente went dealt with Opus with

the wine and they won their

their battle and now they own

Opus X and then someone uses

anything with X on the box.

I kind of understand that

they're protecting their mark.

You know, X is kind of weird,

but you know, right, anything

that revolves around that, I'm

like, OK, yeah, they're going to

do whatever they can to make

sure they protect it.

So anything with monster, I'm

like all over people, right?

Like I don't want, I think it's

fair.

I spent enough money on lawyers

to to protect it and, and not

have to deal with big, you know,

a big corporation that was

trying to bury me in legal fees.

Right.

And and they could, they could

have the one that yeah.

They couldn't have won it

because I owned the market.

Drug it out where it was they.

Could have buried me in legal

fees.

Yeah, they could have.

They could have actually sued

me, taken me to court and

hopefully the only good outcome

is a judge look at it and go,

this is bullshit.

Get the fuck out of here.

I even offered to sell the brand

to them.

Like that was 1 moment that I

was like, I think they might be

trying to get in the weed

business or the vape business.

Class 34, right?

Tell them it's for sale.

I don't need the name monster,

Right?

I'll sell it to them.

Exactly.

If they're willing to pay for

it, why not?

Right?

They didn't they didn't bite.

They knew they didn't have a

case, But then they started

trying to go after me for for a

trade dress.

Yeah.

Trade dress is like colorways or

right?

Symbols No neon green.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm like, come on, man.

Like, what are you doing?

Give me your Pantone color.

I'll stay away from your Pantone

color, right.

But I'm not gonna.

That's wild, man.

I think one year, one of the

years of the multiple years that

they're coming after me with

bullshit it, it cost me about 50

grand.

That was one year so.

Damn.

Yeah, it's uncomfortable.

Yeah, fuck yeah, dude, that's a

ton of money.

Yeah, it's it's so.

I understand why you're

protective of it.

Especially that name.

I mean, Tatawyo, obviously I

register that pretty much

everywhere, but you're.

Protective of the of the coffin

box too.

Yes.

Because no.

One ever had that, No one ever

did it.

And I'm like.

Because you reached out to Z, he

was, you know, totally innocent

and.

And he fixed it.

Yeah.

He.

Fixed it.

And I, I reached out to multiple

people when, when I did the

Coroho line, just with the

simple word Coroho, I went to

Christian and I said, Hey,

Christian, do you have any

rights to the name Coroho on a

band?

He goes, no, he goes, but that's

how the cigar industry should

be.

The fact that you called me and

asked and then I called a few

other people and say, you guys

have any rights to the name

Coroho on a band.

They're like, no, no one does.

OK, cool.

I'm going to use it because to

me it's a seed varietal.

And I mean, if someone had it

and they had registered it as a

brand, then OK, I'll stay away

from it, right?

But like, I, I think one of my

biggest pet peeves in the cigar

industry is when people say

Maduro.

What is it?

Right, Maduro.

What?

Like give me a seed.

Oh, and they they have

Connecticut, they have San

Andreas, they have Corojo.

And then they go Maduro.

I'm like, dude, you just you

left me hanging with the Maduro.

What is it?

Is it Corojo Maduro?

Is it San Andreas?

Is it broadly Maduro?

What?

What the fuck is it?

Don't leave the consumer hanging

either.

Like you.

You told him most of the story.

Why did you?

Why did you leave off that part?

Why did you cut that part out I.

Mean, there are moments where

you say things, oh, it's Maduro,

but you tell people the rapper

who cares, right?

You know.

All right, anything else?

You asked about the cigar and

that was it.

I we talked about Sumatra.

What was your beef with Sumatra?

Because you guys were talking

about Sumatra on your podcast.

Yeah, for me.

And it had to do with LA Union.

You thought Sumatra was like a

cheap rapper?

Yeah.

So a lot of times Sumatra for me

comes across as extremely bitter

and I think that.

Maybe in the lower priming?

Yeah.

And you know, as time is kind of

progressed, it's definitely

improved.

The higher primings are

definitely better.

There was a moment that Sumatra

from Oliva was going through

this weird morphing stage, like

something was wrong with the

seat.

And I remember being in the

factory in the, in Nicaragua and

Gustavo was there and Ernesto

Korea was there.

And I've talked about doing a

Sumatra line like I did the

broad leaf line with a couple of

my sizes.

And Gus is like, I don't know if

you should stay away from it

from right now.

It's just not working the same.

And I tasted it and I, I asked

Ernie, I said, have you chased

the, the Sumatra lady?

And he goes, yes, just not the

same.

So I stayed away from it.

And then one year Sumatra came

through and it was like, OK,

it's been fixed.

Like now it's now it's ripe like

and but we were also looking at

lower prime and stuff back then

and I realized I like the higher

prime.

And on Sumatra I was like, OK,

this is where the the flavor

profile is for me.

But I always say that if you're

buying from Oliva, it's

nothing's cheap.

Yeah, I believe that.

Too.

It's a good they're a great

rappers of mine.

I give them a lot of props

because like I would make sure

that hey, it's not only with

tobacco.

I mean, it's not only with

cigar, it's only with tobacco.

It's a different family.

They make they grow great

rappers and they were one of

those go back to the earlier

story.

They were one of those families

that helped us get into a new

position with with Havano.

And if you talk to guys like us,

there's one big reason why a lot

of people use Habano, and that

was because of Papine.

Like Papine was one of the first

guys that really said fuck it,

yeah, I need rapper.

Let's take a chance on this

Habano that everybody was

avoiding.

And then all of a sudden,

everybody wanted Habano.

So the Gus would always tell you

that that the Papine helped

their Habano sales in the early

days.

Something similar that's really

happened with Sumatra.

I think you see more Sumatra now

than ever before.

Yeah.

And again, I, I shifted to

Sumatra because something else

was being in short supply.

Like I always run like when I

know that there's something

going to be in short supply, I'm

like, OK, I got to pivot.

I got to pivot a little bit and

Sumatra was there, San Andreas

was there.

And OK, now I know that there's

broad leaf, so I'll set make

sure that there's broad leaf set

aside for me to do these

projects.

But but yeah, I mean, you have

to, you have to pivot.

You just can't go into the

factory.

Anybody who wants to get in the

cigar industry on this side of

it, right?

You can't go into a factory and

expect that you're going to get

dark excels on everything.

You know what I mean?

You have to, you have to

understand what the capacity of

the factory has and say, OK,

listen, not every cigar can be

that color, right?

Unless you start dipping it in

juice, right?

Yeah.

If you don't, if you don't dunk

it in juice, you're going to get

natural effects.

So you have to you have to move

around the color grade, right.

And and also you can't expect

when you say, OK, I only want

Rosato that you're going to

always going to get Rosato.

You're going to get Rosato

clarin.

You might get a Rosado squirrel

in the same, same batch of

cigars, but then it's color

grading from there, right.

I mean, in Cuba they would just

color grade and then put a

different band on it.

In this case, you're you're

color grading for the box.

And I hope to stay within a

range.

Like I don't want anything

outside that range.

I mean, I'm sure the same way.

Like listen, man, try to try try

to stay here, right?

But if we go outside too far and

it's too much, then it looks

like a different cigar, right?

And there's been moments of

like, Hey, listen, the the

rapper that you put on the cigar

was too dark.

It's not supposed to be that

dark.

What am I going to do with it?

I'll call it reserve.

Yeah, that works, but it's still

a habano.

It just happens to be a darker

priming of it.

Like you know that you.

Know that wrapper we use on

Kohonu?

That's actually the same wrapper

that we used on that because

it's the higher priming of of

Habano, but it's not supposed to

be that high.

But they've accidentally rolled

1000 sticks with that higher

priming, right?

So either you smoke them all or

you decide to do a project where

they sell them to a retail.

Say hey listen man.

I got this limited run.

It's a small run, but it's all

it is.

Is a color grade all?

Right, Anything else to add

before I let you go?

We got 5 minutes.

Is there anything you want me

to?

Say no, not at all man, I

honestly do that.

I appreciate the wine tasting.

Yeah, this was a lot of fun.

I wanted, you know, my brother

and I wanted to do something

different for you, right?

I wanted you to have a relaxed

atmosphere.

I wanted to be around, you know,

customers that wanted to be

around you.

And you know, I we always try

and make something different.

So it's smart.

Yeah, you know you.

Got to know your audience.

Yeah, you know, I didn't want

you standing up for six hours.

Thank you, the sit down wine

tasting was nice.

Yeah, you know, peddling your

cigars and stuff.

I mean, I think that this was, I

just wanted it to be more

comfortable for you.

So I wanted you to have a good

experience because again, you

know, we've been in the industry

for like 16 years, but we

haven't really cultivated a

relationship.

So no, this is good.

Yeah, I thought that this would

be cool and I promised.

You so you didn't get to keep

Johnny Tobaccon up, by the way.

I no, I got a big one up there.

Though Oh, you do, but you

didn't keep the one that you had

to train because I thought you

were actually taking out.

I was going to take it, but like

Matt looked at me, he was like,

dude, this is for, I think it

was for San Antonio A.

Club humor.

Yeah, yeah.

And he's like, you can't because

I had a car and I'm like, I just

throw this in the fucking yeah,

why not give a shit?

I was like, OK, fine, so.

But yeah, I mean, I had fun with

that, you know, going around

and.

I actually thought you were

really taking it home.

Yeah, no, you got to, dude.

You got to have fun at these at

these conventions, man, you

know?

Yeah, dude, that's why the last

day for me at the trade show, I,

I kind of missed the extra last

day.

Yeah.

Because the shutdown day was

always the day where all of us

would wander between booths and

we'd do like a crawl, right?

Yeah.

I remember one year that skip

rolled through the booth and

then soccer rolled through the

booth and we got.

I remember.

That that wasn't that long ago.

No, it was like 3 years ago.

Yeah, we were hammered.

Yeah.

Because we're like, like, I hate

checking bags.

So I'm like, I'm not, I'm not

fucking checking a bag, right.

And we got to drink all those

booze and we had like 3 bottles

of whiskey.

Yeah, destroyed.

Yeah, that was really cool, man,

because I I, I was there.

I walked into it eventually I

left.

I was like, I'm not, I'm not

staying for this, but.

Actually some guy that actually

I'm blanking on his name now,

but a friend of Saka's and he he

wanted a certain cigar made from

Saka and Saka agreed to it while

he was wasted in the.

Pool and he he.

Thanked me the other day, Jeff.

Yes, it was.

Yeah, he goes.

Thank you for that, by the way.

Yeah, he goes.

Saka made them and I sold out

them real quick.

Prod Juice.

Yeah, yeah.

There you go.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think that that's

important at the shows, dude, we

got to have a good time and you

know, there's just too much shit

going on.

Yeah, like listen to Skip and I

at one point we didn't have a

good relationship and I'm a

happy that that's actually

turned into, you know, very

cordial relationship because

like I, I don't need the drama.

There's there are some people

out there that create too much

drama and I try to avoid them at

all costs.

He's one of the greatest guys I

know, man.

He will give you the shirt off

your back.

His back.

For you, you know, and you had a

long relationship with him.

I mean, the fact that you guys

started back when, when we were

in Esteban's house, yeah.

We we were the factory had just

been created when they started

making Postagna.

That's cool.

He's always been great to us.

I will say that when I saw the

name I had no idea how to

pronounce it.

I kept on calling the the

Punxsutawney Phil.

Right.

Hey, I've heard worse, you know,

but listen to TOI.

Hey, like you should fucking

talk.

Oh no dude, dude, trust me, I

I've heard the worst

translations of that word all

over the place.

I just just say tattoo.

But if if you can even try to

say it if you even ask for it

right?

Thank you.

Yeah, I invited my friend out

tonight.

He unfortunately couldn't make

it.

He's like, Oh well, who's there?

And I said the brand, I typed it

to toy.

And he goes, what the fuck is

that?

What exactly?

Yeah, no, you should come

though.

You have a good time.

But.

Yeah, even when you spell it

phonetically, people still don't

even understand how.

Absolutely, totally lost.

But yeah, I mean, dude, I'm very

fortunate and my brother, we're

very fortunate.

Skip's always kept it 100, like

completely honest with all of

it.

And so is Michael, you know?

Yeah.

And that isn't something that

you see all the time in this

industry.

That true?

You know, that's goes back to

the family, right?

Like, yeah, they they could have

ditched me a long time ago,

right?

I mean, I'm in a different

position now, right?

Obviously.

But in the early days I was

their fucking worst critic.

Like I was on them about.

Everything.

You set a standard, you know,

and that's probably why they be

helped become what they are.

That's when they got Robbie

coming in.

I said you can't fuck this up

because he's going to put you

into a different a different

level.

So you have to make and he's got

Fuente already making cigars.

You can't, you can't do anything

to fuck that relationship.

So and they've they've had a

great long standing relationship

with the people from Ashton and

it's worked out great for for

everybody, right?

Everybody, I mean just shows

that, you know, good people in

the factory produces, you know,

from a factory that produces

good product, everybody wins.

That's it.

Everybody wins 100%.

Yeah, All right.

I'm going to let you get on the

road.

But thank you so much for coming

up, dude.

Thank you.

Appreciate you, man.

We had, I hope you had a great

time.

I had a great time man.

And you know more to come.

Awesome.

All right, I'll.

Take you into another one of

these, maybe?

Who knows?

Who knows?

Just don't.

Don't be upside down.

We pay on time.

No, you're good with that.

I know you do.

Absolutely.

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you guys.

Show Notes

Mikey outdoes himself again with a rare, up-close look at one of the industry’s true icons. This special episode dives into the personal side of Pete Johnson of Tatuaje Cigars — the stories, the growth, the moments that shaped him beyond the blends. A can’t-miss conversation with one of the most influential figures in the cigar world.