ACHP Special Episode Erik Espinosa

Episode Summary

In this special episode of A Cigar Hustler's Podcast, Erik Espinosa of Espinosa Premium Cigars sits down for a wide-ranging, unscripted conversation that skips the usual blend-and-box talk in favor of two friends being honest about the business and about life. He opens with a recap of La Zona Palooza — roughly 250 guests in the La Zona warehouse, the simple house rules (drink all you want, don't bother anybody, no race/religion/politics), and surprise appearances from Guy Fieri and Godsmack's Sully Erna.

Erik gets candid about why he tells almost everyone NOT to start a cigar brand: retailers don't need another cigar, and without deep retail relationships or real social-media reach to consumers, money alone won't save you. He walks through his own origin story — repping for Drew Estate and Rocky Patel, covering all of Florida, winning Salesman of the Year and getting a $20,000 bonus and a pink slip on the same day, then launching his own company with his son Erik Jr. He doesn't sugarcoat the dark days: buying his own cigars back from a wholesaler at wholesale, eating the freight, and having no factory of his own. He also explains why he'll never take a business partner again, and why he pays for his team's hotels, food and booth padding at trade shows rather than cutting corners on his people.

The heart of the episode is family. Erik talks about his 89-year-old Cuban father — a cigar-chewing firecracker who's at the warehouse every day, steals cigars in his cargo pants, and once shared a pig farm next door to the Oliva family — and about his mother, the quiet "rock" he calls every single day. He also opens up about something he once dismissed as weakness: a COVID-era blood-pressure scare, an aborted MRI, and the anxiety that followed, which he got under control through meditation and breathing work. Lighter turns include his self-taught cooking (reverse-engineering restaurant dishes, San Marzano tomatoes, penne alla vodka, white chocolate bread pudding) and a long-running lost bet he still insists was a gray area.

Business-wise, Erik lays out the million-dollar question every boutique faces: how do you reach the casual golf-course smoker who only knows the big name brands? He discusses the value of the Guy Fieri / Knuckle Sandwich partnership, why Connecticut-wrapper cigars outsell everything despite enthusiasts ignoring them, the honest state of a flat year for the whole industry, and new releases including Chicago and Sixth Province. The episode closes with talk of contract manufacturing, brand trust, the Big Smoke, and the Tyson–Paul fight.

In This Episode

1. 01
   La Zona Palooza Recap
   Erik breaks down hosting 250 people at the La Zona warehouse, the event's ground rules, and surprise guests Guy Fieri and Sully Erna of Godsmack.
2. 02
   Why He Tells People Not to Start a Cigar Brand
   Retailers don't need another cigar — Erik explains why relationships, not blends, sell boxes, and why money alone won't build a brand.
3. 03
   Getting Fired and Starting Espinosa
   Salesman of the Year, a $20,000 bonus and a pink slip the same day — plus buying his own cigars back from a wholesaler in the early dark days.
4. 04
   Taking Care of the Team
   Why Erik puts his sales crew in the host hotel, feeds them well, and refused to lay anyone off during COVID.
5. 05
   Family: His Father, His Mother, and His Son
   Stories about his 89-year-old cigar-chewing Cuban father, the pig farm next to Oliva, and why his mother is his rock.
6. 06
   Anxiety, Health Scare and Meditation
   Erik opens up about a blood-pressure scare, panic around an MRI, and how meditation and breathing work ended his anxiety.
7. 07
   Cooking, Penne alla Vodka and Reverse-Engineered Desserts
   San Marzano tomatoes, finishing pasta in the pan, and how he cracked a restaurant's white chocolate bread pudding.
8. 08
   The Million-Dollar Question: Reaching the Casual Smoker
   Connecticut wrappers, name-brand loyalty, the Guy Fieri effect, a flat industry year, and new releases like Chicago and Sixth Province.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

We are officially here with the alpha dog himself, our dear friend, Erik Espinosa. What's up man? They got to clap a little louder than that bro, I paid my dues. Thanks for having me bro.

You think so? You think you paid your dues? I have. Yeah, I think you have.

I think you most definitely have. 24 years doing this. I mean, I think I have. And we've been friends for a little while now.

We have. We have. And, man, you know, you've always been a mentor for me in many ways, and I really appreciate that. You've always given it to me straight.

And this is going to be one of those interviews where it's two friends kind of talking, and we're not going to talk about your normal bullshit that you normally talk about. Good. I'm glad. But before we get into some of the detail about things, I do want to cover briefly that you just had Lazonapalooza.

Yep. How did that go? Because you looked a little stressed. You know, you had some shit going on.

Yeah, I mean, look, you have about 250 people in your home. That's the way I say it. It's in the warehouse. It's not in my house, but that's a home away from home.

And you want everything to come out right, you know. You try feeding 250 people. You try having 250 people with a lot of libation in the place, you know, and not have any issues, you know. Yeah.

You know, I got to make sure everything's okay. Because here's the thing that I tell everybody. We have our rules down there. Right.

And they're very simple. Aim the mic a little bit more towards you, just so you know. You can, there you go, that works too. They're very simple rules.

There you go. You can drink all you want, as long as you don't bother nobody. Because the problem is that people take vacation time. They take that week off just to go to Lozona Palooza.

And, you know, and they pay their fare and they pay for their stay. And I want them to enjoy themselves. You know, we don't talk about race, religion, politics, none of that. And I want everybody to meet everybody.

You know, if you have too much to drink, you got to go. You can come the next day. Right. But when you start bothering somebody, I have an issue with that because, again, I don't know the stress level or the financial of, you know, You know, of getting there.

Right. What everybody has. So I just want everybody to enjoy themselves, have a good time. And listen, were there any issues?

Minors, minor bullshit. Yeah. Like always, but for the most, it was incredible. We had Guy Fieri there, you know, did some Q&As.

And then we had a little surprise, we had the lead singer of Godsmack there, Sully. Yeah, Sully was there, yeah. You know, it's funny, I've never heard a song. I don't like, I'm not at the heavy metal.

I don't understand that. I'm not at the heavy metal. How have you not heard this? Dude, because when I grew up, I was big into Rush.

As far as heavy metal that I would ever go with, probably Led Zeppelin. I was a big fan of Leonard Skinner. It's still like 70s, 80s. You never kept up with music?

I mean, what happened? No, the eight tracks came out. And that was the end of it for you, huh? Yeah, and then the CDs and then the tapes and all that.

You know, when I was a traveling salesman, I got into a book on audio. Audio book. I, uh, so I, that doesn't surprise me with you. I, you know, I, I would, uh, I read a lot of book.

I read probably all of Dan Brown's book, uh, Da Vinci Code and all those. And then, uh, John Grisham was, it was a good one if I remember. So I would buy them and, um, and just listen. Now I just listen to a lot of sports radio.

Gotcha. Yeah, so all fiction books, no personal development things, none of that stuff, huh? No, because... No Tony Robbins kit back in the day.

I don't need anybody to motivate me. Yeah, that's true. I really don't, you know, I like everyone's different, you know, everyone has a different style and how they sell and I don't, I really don't need, I wake up in the morning and I, when I'm home I go to the gym and I have a power shake when I'm done and I'm ready to go, I'm ready to roll, I just... You're ready to go.

I'm made different, I guess, I don't know, I don't... I think that you are. I don't need nothing or anybody to motivate me. You know, if you find me somebody who likes to lose, I'll show you a loser.

I don't like to lose in anything. I know. You and I got to talk about that. Speaking of that, I was going to lead into that.

I was going to lead into that, if you want. So, you know, I really don't, I don't, you know, listen, I'm off for everybody being successful. Right. Yeah.

I really don't, you know, and I do listen to people, but here's the difference. You can be successful at what you do, but they don't know shit about the cigar world. Right. You know, it's no different than I told Guy, I told him no, you know, since we're on that subject, and he asked me why not, because, just because it's called Knuckle Sandwich or Guy Fieri doesn't mean it's going to sell, unless you do something about it, and he has, you know, so, you know, and I don't care what, I don't want any outside advice on telling me how to run my business.

Now, I can get advice on financial and, you know, and advertising and all that, yes, but as far as selling cigars? No, well, I mean, that's what you do. You've done it for a hundred years, but there is definitely some part of an alliance there with you and Guy as far as looking to develop and grow a vision, right? So, you know, he knows that he aligned with you because you're good at what you do, right?

You're good at sales, you're good at marketing, you're good at creating cigars, all of those things, right? Now, he has that whole other aspect, that whole four quadrant thing, the yada yada, and, you know, I didn't even know it was called fucking triple D until somebody dropped it at S, I think Jack goes, oh, a little triple D, and what the hell's that? You never seen the show? No, I have, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know the cool slogan logo that you guys call it or whatever the hell.

I really thought he was one of the Backstreet Boys, I swear to God, you know, before I met him, because it looks a little bit, I hope he's not listening to the show, but… Oh, I'll clip that so you can all tag him. " I believe that. And he told me, "This guy's a non-stop, he's non-stop working, his work ethic is better than mine," she told me. " And he gets mad, like, we're in the Food and Wine Festival in Miami, and we went, you know, you got to dress up a little bit, I dressed up a little bit, and he's ready to call me on stage, he looks at me and goes, where's your fucking shirt, the Knuckle Sandwich shirt, and I'm like, dude, I didn't know you were going to call me on stage, he's like, I said, I got an idea, hold on, there's a good friend of his that I gave a shirt to, and he wore the shirt, and I said, hey, come here, bro, we switched shirts before I got on stage.

Nice. That's awesome. All right, so I want to get into some other things. One thing that you, you know, we've always had back and forth conversations throughout my journey in this industry, and I'm grateful for all of it because you definitely have an honest perspective of things, right?

" Don't do it. Don't do it. Right. Don't do it.

Now, so then why the hell did you get into the cigar industry? Like, why did you, you were, you started off, just to briefly surmise, Drew Estate, Rocky Patel, whole thing. I mean, you're a big deal, right? And then you decide to go into your own brand.

And at that time, did you know what it was going to take? Or did you just, or were you also kind of like, you know, blind into it? You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

No, here's the difference. I had the connections. Right. Because I had already done, I had already rep for other people, and I knew a lot of the stores.

Yeah, you were the guy that would come in, you played the Domino's, and people would have to buy the assets. Correct. Or whatever, however that was. And I knew every single shop in Florida.

Right. I was just telling somebody, I used to come here before you guys owned it. Yeah. I remember they had a bird called Arturo.

They had a bird. They had a parrot. There was like a two or three year lull where there was nothing here. Really?

Yeah, we had no idea it was a cigar store. So, I have a lease, I had the whole state of Florida covered. Now, when I had a, I did it with a business partner, it was Eddie, and he knew a lot of the other people in the states, the big accounts and all that. So, I have a huge advantage.

" Stop and think about this. Yeah. You have your own brand. Right.

And you're successful in your brand. Oh, thank you. But it took you a long fucking time. I mean, it's been 10 years of abuse, and it's nowhere near where it needs to be.

Listen, they need your cigar. The store needs your cigar. Right. Like, they need a hole in their head.

Right. No different than mine. Right. Okay?

They don't need anybody's cigar. Right. Okay? Maybe Fat Bottom Betty now, or whatever.

But it's the truth. " You know, so I don't think they need anybody's cigars. Now, how do you sell cigars? A, they gotta be good, but mostly all the cigars out there are good?

Well, a high percentage of them. Okay. Okay. I'll give you that.

I'll just agree. Okay. A high percentage of them. But why are people gonna buy your cigars, the retailers?

Right. Because of you. Right. Ain't got shit to do about the cigar, bro.

Sure. It's because of you, the relationships you built. Right. Okay, now, getting it in the store is easy.

Right. The reorders becomes a problem. 100%. Now, you're doing something.

You have this podcast. Yeah. You ship. You have a mail order.

You have your own retail shop. So you have a huge advantage. Other than Joe Blow, who hangs out in a cigar shop in Wyoming and don't know a fucking person in the industry, and they think they're going to, you know, and I tell everybody, I can make you the best cigar in the world. And it don't fucking matter.

Even with money, let's stop and think about it. Without mentioning names here, I want you to reminisce a little bit. Sure. There's people here in the industry now that I've tried for three, four years.

I wish I had a nickel for everybody to ask if they got money and they're fucking flat broke. Especially in this industry. You reminisce a little bit. There's two or three guys out there that are fucking tycoons, according to them.

Right. They're not successful. No. Not even close.

And that's my point. Yeah. You can have fuck you money, and it don't mean you're going to make it. People smoke cigars from people who they like.

That's true. Because if I come in here, which we have the event tonight, by the way, we're running some specials, and you can get a lighter. Yeah. But I know this don't -- It's going to happen next week anyways.

So anyway, you know, and I become an asshole to somebody or, you know, they're never going to smoke my cigar again. I don't give a fuck how good a cigar is. Right. It's the little things that matter, you know, the impact you have on people, and at least they'll give you a shot, and that's how I ask for somebody to give you a shot, and getting back to what you asked me, these people have no connections, they have no, I tell them the only way you can make it work, you gotta be great in social media and sell it to the consumers, because the shops, it ain't gonna work, I think it's too late in the game.

But to bring it kind of back, so you felt that because you had those connections, you could build a brand? And I was forced. You were forced. I was forced to do this because one time I won Salesman of the Year with one of the companies and I got a bonus check for 20 grand and a pink slip the same day.

See you later. And I said, how the fuck you fired the guy who made you the most amount of money? It didn't matter. So, and then, you know, you guys know my story.

Then that same day I called my son and I was still repping for, I still have Drew Estate and Rocky. " Because to me, college is overrated, dude. I think knowledge is power, don't get me wrong, but I think a lot of people go to college and never do what the fuck they want to do. No, I mean, you got to have a vision if you're going to college.

Yes, and you got to like it. You got to like what you do. If you love what you do for a living, you never work a daily life. " You know, I'm not a tech guy, so I really don't know about those things.

And he said, yeah, dad, I can. I said, all right, well, why don't you, you know, I need your help. And now at that point I got screwed by several people. He's cigar industry, sir.

Yeah, and I said to myself, I'm never going to have another business partner. Because I tell everybody there's a ship that's guaranteed to sink all the time. And that's called a partnership. And I said to myself, never again would I have a partner in any business.

So I said, I have this vision. There were some dark times, man, dark days. I mean, I had to buy my cigars back from a wholesaler who bought them all and pay the wholesale price on them. Oh, shit.

To sell it to the stores at the wholesale price. Oh, my God. Because I didn't have a factory. I didn't have nobody to make the cigars for me.

It was fucking horrible. Wow, man. That is absolutely incredible. Oh, yeah.

Dude, it was. And at the end, I had to pay for the shipping from where they were at, when I mentioned the name, to get it here, then to, then to, I was losing my ass. I think the first time that we met, I just, I had popped into like a smoke-in or some shit, and you were doing, La Bamba had just launched, it was brand new, I said, oh, I got a cigar store up in Deltona or whatever, you said, oh, hey, take down my number, whatever, we'll be in touch, and that was kind of the beginning of it, so you were out humping it and just putting in the work, as soon as your brand started, you know. But now you kind of fast forward.

You have some people under your own corporation. You still have some brokers and stuff like that, right? I mean, you got, look, Tyler I love, right? Richie's amazing.

Jack's amazing. You have some fucking solid guys. We do. I got some soldiers, man.

In your crew. I, you know, I'm a huge military guy, even though I wasn't even born in this country, but I support our military, and I think they're so structured. You know what I'm saying? 50.

Right. You know, and I look, some of these times, I like to get home when I'm done. So I get the earliest flight out. I don't care if it's 4 o'clock in the morning.

Right. And just leave me in a hotel close to the airport. I'll Uber to the, no, no, no, no, no. No, there's no way you're taking an Uber.

I'll take you. Right. No different than Tyler, Gavin, Josh. These guys would tell me, no, I'll get up.

I'll be up. And I'd be damned if they're not up before me. They're knocking on my door. Hey, let's go.

Let's go. Yeah, dude. And then they get, and then they go home or whatever, you know, we're at the same hotel, whatever. And, um, but I like shoulders.

I like people that, and I compensate them. I, you know, I take care of my people. They don't, you know, yeah, I believe that because I haven't heard an ill word about anybody who's worked under your business with your actual corporation, right? Like these guys think the world of you, you know?

Um, and that's kind of, that's gotta be good to hear. Because I'll tell you right now, if Jack was talking shit, I'd tell you. Listen, they stay where I stay. You know how expensive the trade show can be.

Oh my God, yeah. But wherever the trade show, the host, whatever hotel, we're staying there. Right. And everybody's got their room, and I'm not putting them across the street on a $59 hotel shit.

Right. I get, I pay a lot of money for the padding, just for the padding at our booth. Right. You're on your feet the whole time there, dude.

And you have to be comfortable, you know. And, you know, I take care of them. We don't need garbage at Espanola Cigars. I don't go to McDonald's, Burger King, or none of that bullshit, you know, because you pay for it later in life.

So if we're going to go out to eat, we're going to go out to eat. And they deserve it, man. If you've got people that are with you, you know, I don't mind spending the money on my guys. I really don't, you know.

I remember, I'm a big fan of Dana White. Not that you will see as much as I am a fan of his, just some of the things that he says, dude, and I remember during COVID, he said that, you know, I ain't firing nobody during COVID, you know, call me, whatever you need, this is what you got to do, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, and he found that out because he had it and Joe Rogan, I think, gave him these concoctions, told him what he had to do or whatever, and I remember my CFO telling me, listen, bro, I don't think we, you know, we got to let some people go, I tell them non-negotiable. Right. Non-negotiable.

If we don't have the money, I'll sell my house. Right. We'd go broke first. I'd go broke before.

100%. Before I'd let go of people in tough times. And they know that. So, you know, a lot of my guys don't want to go nowhere, you know what I'm saying?

Right. I was telling them the grass is not greener on the other side, you know? Why would you want to go somewhere where you got a GPS up your ass? Right.

I don't think they're looking, buddy. I don't think they're looking, you know? There's too much entertainment alone going on at Espinosa Cigars to go anywhere else, you know? I do want to talk about one other thing as far kind of that comes out of Lozona Palooza.

It's one thing that I've always noticed is your dad is always there. Your dad is always with you a hundred percent of the time. I mean, that's my right to die, bro. Yeah.

So like what, you know, how, how is that relationship kind of formulated? Was he, was he a hero to you growing up? Like, what was he to you? And, you know, where's your relationship now currently, right?

You know, being Hispanic, we think differently than a lot of Americans, because I hear horror stories, I hear Americans, and there's nothing wrong with that, everybody raises their kids however they want, you know, but most Americans, when their kids turn 18, they're out. They're like, gotta go. Gotta go, not us, we don't want them to leave, you know what I'm saying, we want our kids to stay with us, you know, we want them to get married and all that, but you know, you don't gotta leave, you understand, now if you're a bum and you don't have a job and you don't this. Right, you're playing video games and smoking weed all fucking day.

Right, right, it's a different story. Right. But, I don't know, I've never asked my dad this, but my dad would do things for us to hate cigars. I'll give an example, because one of the things I hated the most in life were cigars.

No shit. " Dude, the whole house was a fucking man cave. My dad was smoking the toilet, my dad could be taking the dump and smoking the cigar. I swear on my life, I'd turn in a car one time, I want my dad to change cars, the whole gauges, you couldn't see it, I swear on my life, the guy gets in, you know how they do that test run, and the guy goes, dude I didn't even know how fast I was going, I can't fucking see it, and it was brown, I mean brown, and he would chew the cigar, and whenever we're, I must be eight, nine years old, he'll come by us and go like this with a cigar, and you're like, you're spitting it, and you'll never see it, My dad would out a cigar, and it looks like a paintbrush.

Now, I know you might not believe me, but my dad eats cigars. Being Cuban, my dad's been smoking cigars since I think he's 12. You know, in Cuba, that's how you did. Right.

You know, you work in the farm and you would chew tobacco, I mean, smoke cigars. And then, you know, one day I just, look at me now, but the relationship was, you know, especially now, he goes to the warehouse, you know, he's a little older, you know, he's 89 years old, God bless him. And, you know, we've always been a tight family. I've never in my life, ever, have my dad and I ever gotten into an argument.

I just, I mean, we've gone back and forth on some things, especially baseball and shit, and, but we live, I have three sisters and a brother. Yeah, that's a debate, that's bull, just fucking around, you know. But we're three sisters and, and, and we're three girls and two boys, and, um, we're very, very tight, and, uh, but we live to see my dad mad, even at 89. And we'll never regret it.

All the shit that we do to him, just because he's a firecracker, dude. He'll get upset in two seconds. Like, people are making the line to go see Guy Fieri, you know, and then he's got his little cart there driving around, and he's in the fucking way. I said, Dad, you got to move.

This place is mine. I ain't got to fucking go nowhere. Like that. Bro, you're blocking everybody.

They can wait. Let me get my picture first. All right. I said, Guy, let's go get his picture.

Oh, he wanted a picture? Yeah, he got a fucking picture. He don't even know who the fuck Guy is. He has no fucking idea.

He's never watched Dinah Drive. You know, he speaks very little. You know, he understands, especially the cuss words and all that, you know, the Spanish. But I remember one time, I've got to tell you this funny story.

So we used to have a pig farm. Okay. And it's ironic. Our pig farm was next to Oliva.

Oliva had a pig farm, too. They made my very first cigar. I'm going back years ago. " Now, my dad don't know no shit about cigars.

He knows the short filler shit they used to sell before I got in the business, you know, they were selling the grocery stores and cafeterias. " Well, anyway, so we used to go pick up, like, in the summertime, like bread and milk, you know, to feed the pigs. And my dad has these big arms and shit, and he didn't speak a lot of English, so he's getting into this argument with this guy, and my dad's ready to kill this guy, and he tells the guy, fuck you, my mother. And the guy goes, bring it to me.

He's trying to say motherfucker, but he's saying, fuck you, my mother. I don't know what to do, but I'm like eight, nine, ten years old. And then he gets in the car, all pissed off, some guy separated them and all that shit, and he goes, what was the guy telling me? I said, Dad, you're telling him to fuck your mother?

" But that was our story, dude, growing up, but we're very, very, very tight. So he's always kind of been a hero to you, then I would assume? Oh, absolutely, dude. He's very, very, I'm a spitting image of him, dude.

He's straightforward. He don't give a fuck. He don't sugarcoat a fucking thing. He tells people what he's got to tell them, and he don't give a shit who's around them.

He doesn't care, you know, but right. you know he doesn't disrespect nobody he tells people you know if you're wrong you're wrong and and i'm a spitting image and and you know you know he's my hero of course he's my hero he's you know a lot of things i learned and i didn't learn a lot from him because he was always working to provide gotcha you know and everything i had to learn and i i never held it against him because i know what we did it's not like he was screwing around right right right but but we always remember we're If you bought one bike, you had to buy five bikes, you know what I'm saying, and growing up, you know, we lived, when we came from Cuba, we were in the hood, dude, I mean, it was, you know, we were in the hood, the hood, I remember one time, I think I was three years old, and I still remember this, I swear to my life, I don't remember how old I was, three, four, five years old, and we remember those piñatas, so we, I pulled the piñata, and bro, people came out of the woodworks, I mean, they came out of the wood, I didn't get one fucking candy, I mean, it was in the back of the, These projects, and everybody just came out of the woodworks, dude, I didn't even get one, and I'm crying and shit, you know what I'm saying? That was us growing up, I'm sure a lot of people have their stories, you know, we didn't have a lot of money or anything like that, you know, but he's definitely my hero, bro, he's a bad motherfucker, bro, 89 years old, and kicking, and he goes to a cigar, bro, he steals my cigar, he takes cargo pants, so my mom, my mom's a prankster, so my mom weighs him, you know, it's a big scale, there for for the pallets right so we weigh him when he gets in and then we weigh him when he gets out to see how many cigars you know he takes cargo pants they got pockets everywhere this is my fucking place you know and i'm like yeah that all right you know i'm saying i remember one time eric needed some pictures of these of this box it was a new project we're doing he goes in his office and grabs him and fucking start smoking him and shit and eric who took the other cigars we're trying to find out everybody that knows we need it for the picture so we had to bring the ones in And put different cigars, and just set them up top, 'cause we only had 20 cigars, only one box of this. You gotta make it look full.

Yeah, dude, it was wrecking. He's the best, though. All right, so, you know, one person that you never talk about, though, is your mom. My mom, my dad and my mom are day and night.

My mom goes to church almost every day. My dad's, don't gamble anymore, but my dad used to be a drinker, cigar smoker, and they meet in the middle. My mom is my rock. That woman, I tell you, when that woman tells you something, bro, I don't question it.

She tells me, you know, she prays for me all the time. I gotta talk to her every day. If I don't talk to her once a day, I'll help break sleeves. Oh, kidding.

Yeah, the next day, you forgot you have a mother, you know. Yeah, yeah. She hit you with a slipper? Back in the day, I never got hit a lot, but when I did, it was my mom.

And remember that Richard Pryor joke? But my mom, you know, I would tell her, it never hurt, but I would tell her, hurry up and finish. You know what they would do with the bell? I told you not to.

Hurry up and finish. Hurry up and finish your sentence. I mean, you know. But my mom's my rock.

I tell you what, listen, my dad's nine brothers and sister, and they're all here in the States. Holy moly. Right. And we're the biggest.

We have five, but another one has four, and three, and two, and all the cousins. My dad and my mom's house were where everybody hanged out at. So, anybody got any issue, they call my mom. Anybody needs advice, they call my mom.

My mom's a rock. " And I said, "Mom, I'm 18 years old. " And then she woke me up like at three in the morning and said, "Let's go. your cousins in the hospital he he he was drinking and you know and he got into an accident and um and he hit a light pole on the side i would have been in you know so yeah i do so i i don't question my mom when my mom tells me something dude i don't i don't question her at all so you had four other siblings yes you have four other siblings yes are you the oldest middle i'm the youngest you're the I'm the youngest, I'm the youngest, bro, we're very tight, I mean, they were all there, except my other sister lives in Tennessee, but you've seen them, I don't know if I've introduced them to it, 'cause you know it's so busy and so hectic there, but...

But they're there? They're there, yeah. No shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No shit. That's incredible, man. Yeah. See, I would've never guessed you were so close to your mother.

Oh. Never would've guessed in a million years. I won't go to my dad, I have so much respect for my dad. Let me give you an example.

I would never get naked in front of my dad. I can get naked in front of the whole world. I can do shit, seriously. I would never get naked in front of my dad, out of respect.

I don't know what it is. And so I try to incorporate that with Eric. So I would take showers with Eric, you know, when he was younger and stuff like that. But Eric won't do it to me.

I remember that little fucker one time, we were at the trade show. " leave i said all right i'll see you in the morning so then in the morning i see them struggling oh and i'm like i look at anthony remember my graphic artist anthony and i tell him you know now i'm digging i said what's going on i heard you guys went out last night he goes yeah where'd you guys go strip club oh nice who's there i mean this is before he got married and all that right i said who was there oh me your son so-and-so so that's okay motherfucker i said Hey, why didn't you fucking invite me, bro? Right. I guess it's a respect thing.

I would have loved to have gone, but I don't know if he can do that with me. Your kids are young. Wait till they get older. You'll understand exactly everything that I'm telling you.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I won't be incorporated on specific things. Right.

They won't. I don't know. They're worried about how you're going to perceive them afterwards. Correct.

But I'm the cool dad. I mean, I'm the dad that all his friends would hang out with. You know what I mean? I'm the guy that, you know, that they called me in the office one day and he had this loud horn, I bought him a pickup truck and they called me in the office, it was a private school and you know, your son every time at lunchtime blows his horn every day and the kids, he scares the kids and all that and I look at him, this is in front of the principal, true story, I said, you do that every day?

And he looks down, he goes, yes, because he doesn't lie to me and I said, do me a favor, only do it on Mondays and Fridays and give the kids Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays off, you know. ", you know, and that's why I fucking take off, I'm that guy, I'm that dad, you know what I mean? Right. " I heard, a little birdie told me, that you're actually into meditation.

Yeah, but- You meditate a lot? I used to do a lot more. I just feel that everybody needs to relax the mind, especially minds, minds, not that my mind, I've been playing races a lot. It's just so much information, a lot of useless information, but I struggled with anxiety and my stepson suffered a lot from anxiety.

And I really thought that was a pussy shit. I really thought I thought that was for weak motherfuckers. You know, boy, was I wrong. You know, could you think one way until it hits home.

Right. And, and, until you experience it. Until you experience it. And then during COVID, I got a real scare with, um, I've never taken that shit.

I've never taken a pill in my life. At 50 years old, I never took a pill in my life, ever. You know, I would take vitamins, but never a pill. Right.

Of course, the minor headaches or whatever. And then, you know, one day I was at the warehouse, and I didn't know anything about blood pressure and this, and none of that bullshit. And then I didn't feel good, and they called the rescue and all this shit. Anyway, I had high blood pressure, and they put me on these pills, and I just wasn't feeling right.

And then I went to the doctor, and they did a stress test, everything was fine with the heart, but when I did the stress test, you gotta run and all that shit, the doctor tells me, look, there's something not right, I need to do a sonogram, not a sonogram, what is that called when you go into the tunnel and they put an MRI? MRI, but with the iodine and all of the shit, yeah, whatever it's called, so the day I go there, no big deal, I'm going to go do it. The lady looks at me, she says, we got to put nitro under your tongue. We're going to throw iodine and we got to give you an IV.

And I kind of freaked the fuck out. I'm like, what the fuck, nitro? I know nitro is to build bombs, you know, what the fuck? And I kind of freaked out that day.

And then she looks at me, she says, have you taken Viagra Silas within the first, within 24 hours? I said, yes, I took one last night. Bullshit. I just want it out.

I just want it out. " And I never went. " So during that period that I didn't do it, I was kinda freaking out. So then, you know, I didn't know what anxiety was, dude.

I really didn't, you know, and then that's when I developed it. And then, you know, I started talking to people and shit like that. And then they said, you know, um, you know, I remember Caldwell would, would have these little, um, these little liquid that you put under your tongue. You know, it's like a CBD type shit.

And that will calm you down. That shit works like crazy. So I would, um, you know, I would have hot flashes, dude. And I thought that was just for women.

You know what I'm saying? And I experienced all this bullshit. And then I started meditating, dude. And all that shit went away, you know?

No shit. Yeah, dude, I started meditating, relaxing the mind and all that shit. But my heart was great. Cause the next day after I did it the doctor calls me and says um well I got your results back and I freaked the fuck out dude I was fucking shaking I was fucking and I've never gone like that in my life and she's calmed down everything is good if not I would you know I would have called you yesterday you have seven percent blockage on one artery eight on the other and nine on the other and I tell her what does that mean she says a doctor won't even look at you unless you have 50 percent on something you're fine you know keep doing what you're doing and and whatever I need you to lose a little bit of weight whatever and all this shit you know so so then you know and then i started doing the meditation there's this thing called the daily calm and i recommend this to everybody dude because you know i try not to sweat the small shit you know what i mean so if you wake up in the morning you know you either you go to the gym and all that dude and you got the kids and you got the business and you know i'm sure you have some stress in your life and of course you know it calms you down dude and then you breathing techniques and all that you're the martial arts When I used to do martial arts, that would really relax you when you're done, because, you know, you're so spent that you don't want to do anything, you know, and they teach you how to breathe, when you fight, breathing is a lot, you know, and so I incorporated all that, and I'm fine now, you know, I don't, you know, I don't suffer from anxiety anymore, I don't, you know, I'm, you know, but meditation should help like crazy.

Yeah, I mean, it could always rear its head back, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, if you do the right thing, sure. Everybody has it, though. Right.

Everybody suffers from anxiety. When you have a big trauma in your life, okay, that's when it comes out. Right. You know, but unless you've had a big, big trauma in your life, you know, a lot of people don't.

Because a lot of people, you know, people take things, there's some people that are so laid back that nothing bothers them. Yeah. And that's the way you should live your life. Super chill.

I can't. Yeah, you're not built up. I'm not built up. I don't think I'm built that way either.

I got news for you. Yeah, that's pretty incredible, man. I heard also that you fancy yourself as quite the chef. Oh, I wouldn't say that.

I'm not, I'm, by all means, I'm not a chef, but one thing I do, I learned, and this has nothing to do with guy. Absolutely. It's pre-guy. This is pre-guy.

With all my travels, whenever I go to a restaurant and they have something that's good, And whatever I ate, the best thing that I ate in the restaurant, which is, I say is above average, it was spectacular, I try to make it at home, so. Try and replicate it. What I do is I get the menu, I call them, "Hey, can I have that menu? " I don't, but I just take a picture of, without them seeing me, I take a picture of the ingredients and shit, and then I try to go make it at home.

Right. And I learned that a lot of people don't know these things. People go to McDonald's and Burger King, I feel, 'cause they don't know any better. Really.

Once you try the pizza in New York, you don't want to eat pizza anywhere else. Once you try the best, it's hard to go backwards. So I try to buy the best possible ingredients whenever I'm cooking. I don't cook corners when I cook.

Am I a good chef? Hell no. Do I make good dishes? Absolutely.

What's your best dish? Penielabaka. Yeah? Yeah.

That's your go-to? That's my go-to. How often do you make it? It depends on whether I'm on a diet or not, but I've made that dish in Philadelphia, California, Jersey, I've done it at home a bunch of times, but I make it really, really good, and it's just little things that people don't know.

Tiny little intricacies. That's all it is, and good ingredients. Right. I use these tomatoes that are called San Marzano tomatoes, they're some of the best tomatoes in the world, a lot of people don't know, and it comes in a can, it doesn't matter if it comes in a can, they're the best tomatoes.

I rinse them off, take that canned flavor shit out of it, and I make my sauce or gravy or whatever, depending on what part of the country we're in, because some people call it sauce, some people call it gravy, but it comes out of this world. The secret is, when you're done with your sauce, because I put prosciutto, onions, all kind of shit in there, when you're done with your sauce, you've got to get a frying pan, and then you put the penny, then you put your sauce, and then you grade the cheese, and then you put a little bit of parsley or whatever, but then you let it sit there, And you're like refrying it, so you're like sort of sautéing it, now becomes thick. No kidding. Yeah, just by doing that little thing.

Because some people do the pasta, the sauce, and they put it together, and here you go. No, it don't work that way. No, it's a process. It's a process.

You got to do it right. It's a process, yeah. And I do a phenomenal white chocolate bread pudding. Really?

Yeah. How have we not had this? Palmer, how have we not had this? You don't.

It sounds amazing. You don't have a kitchen here. Dude. you know what i'm gonna go i'm gonna make this a thing i'm gonna make sure that when when ever you come up again whenever that is we'll do it from your house or wherever you give me give me a stove all i need all i need is an oven i'll tell you what i'll tell you the ingredients how you do it okay and and and i'll you know i'll show you the process okay and um you pay me a little And I got a little bit of royalties for the, for the, for, well, you gotta make some, you gotta make the ashtray back.

So I'll tell you how I did this. I went to a place, it was a restaurant. If I'm talking too much, bro, let me know. No, you're good.

I'm, we go into this restaurant and, um, I ordered one, I ordered the, you know, dessert and it was incredible. And I couldn't wait to go back to this place. The food was okay. From one to 10, it was a six, seven, but the dessert was a 10 and I go back another day and I, I tried to make it at home.

But it couldn't do it. I went back again, and I ate one there, and I took one to go. And in the morning, I woke up, and I went to get a little slice of it, and it was hard. The white chocolate was hard.

" Because I used to do the white chocolate chips. Right. What they use as a brick. " And then I started doing the brick, and now it tastes the same.

It's fucking delicious. And I put raspberry, blueberry on top, strawberries. I love strawberries. You reverse engineered it.

Yeah. That's how I got them. Look at you. That's how I got those motherfuckers.

That's hilarious, man. I love that, dude. All right. A couple of brief things to surmise and then we'll wrap this up.

Number one, you lost the fucking bet. Fair and square. Look. I don't think I did.

Look, I love, I just want you to know, I cherish the fact. Well, let's tell America what the bet was. I have no problem telling the bet. I cherish the fact that you continue to be upset about the fact that you lost the bet.

Well, he lost. He doesn't like to lose. Well, I paid my... I paid up...

You did. You paid all... I thought it was a gray area. And Espinosa always pays his debts.

I get it. Okay. I thought it was a gray area. Yeah.

Okay. I don't remember exactly some of the details of the bet, but... Right. And I'll tell America, I said, I said, listen, if, come election time, something big will happen, it'll be either COVID, it'll be something that, that, because...

You can go ahead and tell your side of the story. I like the smug look on Michael's face. You can tell your side of the story. You and I both know that all these politicians are full of shit.

Of course. Okay, so they're going to do everything possible. Right. So, my bet to you was that something big was going to happen, either another COVID or fucking...

The fucking banana chocolate strawberry disease, some big shit was going to happen. Chocolate strawberry disease, right? Alright. Banana chocolate strawberry.

Possibly banana. Whatever the fuck it is. Could be bananas. Or strawberry.

Yeah. And we got a date. Yeah. And the date came and you text me.

But I think two or three weeks before that, the Democrats changed their candidate from Biden to Kamala. Right. I've never in the history of the free world. And I think that's huge.

That's fucking big, dude. Yeah, I will agree with you. That is big. You just nominate somebody a hundred percent.

Right. That's huge. And that's why the the bed is still a gray area because that's big. OK.

Now, if I didn't use the word something big would happen and then I shut the fuck up and I lost. Right. OK. Now, if I just said banana, cherry, strawberry fucking disease or COVID another time of COVID.

Yeah. And then you want fair and square. Okay. But if I use the word big, then I think it's a little fucking gray area.

All right. So let's back this up for you. All right, now, you hear, let me hear your question. Here's what I love about you.

I love you to death. All right. When you get on your tangents. Okay.

You're, you're elevated, right? A little bit. And you're going. All right.

And you say, verbatim. Okay. I will bet that they are going to shut down the entire country again. For COVID.

And I said, I'll take that bet. And you said, all right, well, you had said specifically it would be like June. And I said, okay, that's perfect. I'll take that bet.

I'll give you to August. Right. And then you said, whoa, whoa, whoa. Give me a little more time since it's very, since it's so specific.

Okay. I'm going to need some more time. And I said, no problem. I'll give you more time.

Pick the date. When do you want to pick the date? So at that moment, I wrote it down in my calendar. And I showed it to you, and I said, here it is, here is the bet verbatim, and here is the date in which the bet expires.

Yes, you sent me the date that it expired, yes, and the date, yes you did. Specifically, what it was. I would have to go through my text, I don't think specifically. I'm not a betting.

Listen, I lost, I paid my debt. Yeah, but I love this, this I love. I paid my debt. Of course, you did.

I think you gotta give me another chance, because there's still a little gray area. We can do another one. That's fine. We can do another one.

And by the way, I give three flying fucks about the ashtray and whatever I sent you. I don't even know what the hell I sent you, but I did good on the bet, but I hate to lose. I know. I love that.

You're probably the only guy in the country that's ever beat me in the bet. You know Abe has those dollar bills and all the bullshit. I was going to say, I was going to have you say, I lost a dollar to Abe, but someone else is already doing that. I have two of them from him.

Yeah? Yeah. You have two dollars from Abe. I have a $5 bill, and I had a 10, but I was broke in Vegas.

I think I put it in a gas machine. I slipped it in something. We could have Eric sign the ashtray. But I had two somewhere.

I think I have them in the office, but I have two from Abe. Yeah, I don't bet unless I'm like a dollar. But listen, I lost. I caught you.

I will tell America, right, all your listeners, I lost, I lost. You can't win them all. I lost. You can't win them all.

I lost because the details is my fault, I wasn't specific and I blame myself, I don't blame you. Well, you were specific, that was why I took the bet. Something big did happen, though. That's not what you said at the time.

First time in history. That's not what you said at the time. Of course. George Washington didn't do that, Abe Lincoln didn't do that.

Yeah, I get it. Hey, listen, George Washington didn't go to his mother's funeral. What are we saying here? Abling can fought a guy in a ditch.

I mean, like, come on. Nobody's done that, you know. To equal the height. I don't know.

It's crazy. Yeah, dude. Okay. A little bit of business talk, then we're going to move on.

All right. We're going to go upstairs. We're going to have a good time. We're going to sell some Eric Espinosa cigars.

There we go. It's going to be fantastic. Okay. So, COVID hits, and then shortly thereafter, you partner with Guy, right?

Yeah. Actually, it was the day, it was the Friday before the shutdown. Really? Yes.

Abe's event was that Saturday. Okay. I'd meet him on Friday. I'd go to Saturday after Abe's event to the Food and Wine Festival.

No kidding. And then Sunday, and then Monday, it shut down. I remember going to the TPE in January. Okay.

And you had people wearing masks, and I've never seen that. Yeah, it's crazy. I didn't know what the fuck that was about. And I'm always a prankster, I would see the Asian girl had a mask on, and I'm thinking the smokes bother her, and I look at her and I say, you have a lighter, I can borrow, just to fuck with her because she had a mask on and shit, and of course no English, no English, whatever, but I didn't know what that was about, I never experienced that, and then that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is when it, you know, you had the shit hit the fan.

I think we were coming back from Philadelphia, and we started to see people wearing masks and stuff. Right, Palmer? I believe that's what it was, yeah. But anyways, okay, so tabling the 2020 year, and looking at '21, '22, or '23, and '24, right?

So four years. I think that you have scaled a lot. You've been very successful in a lot of things, as far as your company's concerned. I mean, this is me just spitballing here, but I think that that's accurate.

Are you where you want to be? No. No. Not even close.

Not even close. Oh, not even close, bro. No. But I have the same issue that every other boutique brand has.

How do you get to the regular guy who don't know shit about cigars? Sure. Can you sell more to guys who don't know shit about cigars? You know, I compete with, you know, the malittles of the world, the Soccas of the world, the skips of the world, yourself, and all that, and we have basically the same fan base.

Sure, we share a lot of consumers. We share a lot of consumers, but the golfer or the guy who don't know shit that goes out and gets the name brands, how do you get to those guys? That's a million dollar question, and in my lifetime I've seen maybe, I would tell you, maybe six companies that have done that. Right.

They were where I was at, the Rocky Patels, the Perdomos, the Olivas. You know, that's the million-dollar question. How do you do that? Yes, has Guy helped?

Absolutely. Of course. I've had a lot of celebrities that I've sent boxes of cigars through Guy, the Al Pacino, but Al Pacino, I don't know if he's ever smoked a cigar. Right.

Right. You know, if I send him a box and he don't snap a picture with it, you know, I would love for him to snap a picture. I'll post the fuck out of it. But, you know, that's the million dollar question, bro.

How do you get just like you, you know, you ship product. How do you get to the guys who, you know, who smoke the Monte Crystals and the Romeos and stuff like that? You know, that's, you know, their name brands, they're very powerful. But I want a piece of that.

Right. Just don't know how to do it. So that's your vision. You want to cut into that piece of the pie.

Well, sure, but whoever doesn't tell you that they want to do that, it's insane. And I know that some people do their business differently and they're content of where they're at. You know, I don't, I'm not going anywhere. I don't want to sell this company.

I want to leave it for my son. Right. You know, but I need to leave it, you know, flush. You know what I'm saying?

I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong. No, no. That's not what the question is. Right, right.

But here, I'll tell your listeners this. Probably cigars you don't smoke, or Mike, or a lot of your consumers. Connecticut. Right.

That's the number one selling rapper in the world. Sure. Connecticut. At least in this country.

Yeah. You know? But we don't smoke it. I mean, you might smoke one or two, you know.

I smoke two over a day. Do you? I do. I don't.

Because I made a badass one. Okay. All right. Cool.

Now, you made some. I made some to sell. You made a couple good ones. Chicago?

Yes. But here's the thing. A lot of people don't talk about that. Right.

You know, when, you know, it's got to be medium to full. You know, when's the last time you heard, oh, I smoked this great, you know, Connecticut cigar? You don't hear that. You do hear, but not as much as you do the other ones.

Right. But you smoke, you sell more Connecticut than anything, you know? Yeah. And that's, that's the target.

How do I get the guy? And it's the million dollar question. And how do you educate that guy? Yeah, and how do you educate that guy?

Because a lot of those guys are smoking bullshit Connecticut. Well, they don't know. Right. I don't think they care.

No. I don't think they care. They're in the golf course and all that. How do you make them care?

And that's why Drew Estates is so important to our industry, man, because it's a gateway cigar. Sure. You know, when I used to rep them, you know, and they start smoking the ass in the Fat Bottom Betty and then they move up, you know, and, but how do you get them to smoke? Like, listen, I do fantastic with Cremor, you know, and the Knuckle Sandwich Connecticut, but I can't get it to the everyday Joe Smoe, you know?

Right. How do I get those guys? Or women? It's tough.

Yeah. That's the million dollar question. So is that what you're planning on working on in the coming years? Absolutely, absolutely.

That's something that, you know, I'm targeting. How do you do it though? You know, it's hard. I remember Rocky, I know how some people got there, Rocky had three great hits back to back to back, which he had the Edge, the Java, and the Vintage, and he had three monster hits back to back, and that escalated to, brought me the Big Smoke, just to give you an idea, I'm in the Big Smoke about a month ago, I have the magazine that did an article on me in the Big Smoke.

I got one of the, in Cigar Ficcinato, one of the highest rated cigars, okay, we got both magazines there showing, and I'll be honest with you, you know, there was 4,000 people there, I took maybe 50 pictures, right, you know, it's not a lot, I took a hell of a lot more, but when Guy was next to me, yeah, but Guy wasn't there the first day, I was gonna drop that joke, you just beat me to it, right, you're two for two on me, but Guy was, It was there the second day, the first day. Right. I mean, these are guys that read Cigar Aficionado. Right.

I have no idea who the fuck Espinosa is. No idea. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and tell you, oh, you know, everybody knows. You know who I am.

Right. A lot of people don't know who the fuck Rocky Patel is. No. No.

And that's my point. There's people go there and then you tell them, you ever heard of 601, Muschielago, Knuckle Sandwich, this, that, no. What do you smoke? Oh, you know, and they tell your brand that you're like, oh, okay.

So I'm like, you know, I give up once I hear the brand that they shop in. I'm done with you. You know, but you're advertising Sky Aficionado. I'm out there.

I've been to every state. I've been to mostly, I will tell you, 70% of every retail shop in the country. Not everybody knows who the fuck we are. Right.

You know, and how do you get there? You got to keep knocking on doors. And I don't know what the formula is. If any of your listeners know what the formula is, I'm all ears, bro, you know, I'm all ears.

Listen, I don't need to tell you, you know the struggles. Yeah, no shit. I don't have to tell you. Yeah, absolutely.

Anybody comes up to me and tells me, you're a crock of shit, dude, get the fuck out of here. The fuck, one thing I don't do is lie, dude, you know, it is, listen, every year at the trade show, we sell more, you know, every year we sell more, this year's a little flat for mostly everybody. You know, I got to have a big month, you know, to, to, to surpass last year, but I talked to everybody. Everybody's flat, everybody's, you know.

Yeah. And the economy is... Yeah, well, I mean, but realistically, when everybody says they're flat, they're probably down. They're probably down, right.

One thing about me, dude, I'm too old to lie, 'cause you gotta remember your lies. No, I'm a little down, but I got some new things. I got the Chicago shipping, the Sixth Province, I got a bunch of shit. Yeah, you got a lot of things exciting.

This month, right, that, that, that'll probably get me there. You know, if we're up, not a hell of a lot. And if we're down, now I have a lot, but every year, my goal is since I started the company, we've been up, you know, every year it grows, it grows, and it grows, and more and more people are getting to know who we are, you know? I think that's true.

Yeah. I honestly do. You know, we're not flat, you know, we're definitely climbing, we're on the right path. I think you have more people in the Zona this year than you did the past two, three years.

I can put a thousand people in there, I just can't, I don't know where the hell to take them though. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I don't mind doing that, but, you know, it's so intimate, it's so, you know, we don't have a big space, so that's the reason, so who do I invite?

The people that post their cigars the most and buy cigars the most. Yeah, it just felt like, to me, there was more there. I'm going to tell you right now. Yeah, it could have been.

I don't know if my son handled all that, but, you know. Because I want to go hide in the back. I was like, let's go hide in the back. You were following Hector's office all the time.

I stopped to see Hector, yeah, and then the conference room was pretty cool with Jack and Tyler to hang out with them for a little bit. I saw a Mike Tyson fight there. What a fucking wage. I can't get those two hours back in my life.

Well, you know... It was so script, though. Not to change conversation, but that was script. Well, we can end it on that.

So, you know, at the end of the day, you got a guy that's really good at marketing. Yes. And then you have another guy who's not going to say no to 20 million fucking dollars. dollars you know what i mean i mean imagine right like hey you got to show up you're gonna get paid 20 mil you know legacy intact we're gonna protect you we're gonna protect and i'm gonna tell you right now i don't i think that it took a minute for mike to slow down like when he started off the gate yes he was like yes like he wanted no did you see him train yeah of course it's nothing I don't think that what he did.

No, there is a guy like that, you know, a legend like that. I know you don't believe me, but I look you straight in your eyes and I swear in my life, I wouldn't do it. What, the 20 million? No.

I actually do believe you. There's no fucking way I'm going to sell my soul for any amount of money. Well, you think that he sold the soul, I don't think he sold the soul. Fuck yeah.

Well, he's old, people gave him a pass because he's old. Yeah. And probably people gave him a pass, but he looked like an ass. When he's told his brother, I'll fight you.

Right. You know, and that's where I know something because his showing, he wasn't even there. Okay, and when he told his brother, and his brother said, I'll kill you. You know what I'm saying?

I know of a script. A million percent had to be script because there's no way in the world a guy, because he's a monster. Now, he was biting his gloves, and I don't care what nobody said. Would he do it when he fight?

Very little. He was biting his gloves the whole fucking time not to throw a fucking punch. Right. And listen, don't throw a punch, motherfucker, don't throw, you know what I'm saying?

Of course. There's no fucking way that, you know, I would have put my life, you know, that Tyson was, I was hoping he clocked the motherfucker and all that, you know what I'm saying? But, but something was wrong there, you know, and listen, he needed the money, he wanted to do it, hey, hey man, congratulations, whatever. He's 59 years old, right?

I'm 57, dude. Okay. And I promise you, promise you, give me two months and I would have had a better showing than him. Okay, but at the end of the day, right, he's 59 years old.

He's got nothing to prove, right? That's my point. He's done a lot of these great things. But he's making good money now, is what I'm told.

I could be wrong. He's got the weed business. He's got the gummy ears with the ear bit off and all that bullshit. Yeah, you know, so did he need the $20 million to do a fucking shit?

I don't know. You find $20 million on the ground, you're going to pick it up, you're going to fucking kick it to the curb. But look, at the end of the day, I think that the reality is he's 59 years old. So, you know, no matter how great you are, we all still tuned in.

I guess. It was on Netflix. But I'll never do it again. Well, I wouldn't have bought it, but it was on Netflix.

And I did the buffering, and I got fucking frustrated the whole time. Dude, we were at our warehouse, and I thought it was me. I was so embarrassed, you know, every five minutes. But then I realized it was the whole country.

Right. They got, they got, they got, I guess, I think they're being sued. Are they? That's a bigger thing.

Like, you know, Netflix not having the capacity to handle that was, was definitely the biggest egg on the face for the entirety of the whole thing. And they had some good, look, they even put some good fights before it. Are you a boxing fan? No, but, you know, I was watching those fights and I'm like, damn, this is really good.

You know, I'm a, I'm, I'm a competitive fan. Like, I like the, I like UFC, you know? The cigar's very good, by the way. Thank you.

Thank you. San Andre. Yep. Postonic?

Postonic. Postonic. Powstanie. Powstanie.

Yeah. That one won't come out. And why Powstanie? What does that mean?

Because it means uprising. Uprising. Yeah. Okay.

So why is the arrow pointing down? Well, because it's actually Polish revolutionaries would repeat with an anchor. Okay. So we just kind of modified it.

How many letters are in your last name? 15. How many are in Schwarzenegger? It's a real question.

How many of those? 14. 14. That's it.

That's it. Nice, bro. And how do you pronounce your last name? It's Szczeponkiewicz.

Szczeponkiewicz. Yeah. Good stuff, right? Yeah, that's not coming out till the show, but, you know.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to tell the whole world. No, you're good. You know, I don't care. But I wanted you to have something special.

You know, this is a special occasion. I love this size, bro. Yeah. Cigar's really good, bro.

Congratulations. Thanks, man. And working with good people. That's what it is.

You got to work with good people for, you know. People you can trust. People you can trust and, you know. Yeah, cause a lot of those people don't know that this is a chain here, and who makes the skip?

Yep, Roma. Right, so, see, here's the difference. They have their own company, and they know that it's a chain, cause if they make bad shit, you understand, we're not making Cuban cigars here that are dog rockets and nobody complains and they don't ship it back. Right.

So, when they make cigars, it's got to be done right, because this person- It's a reflection of their brand. No doubt. Yeah. Everybody knows they make it, and it's a chain.

One guy can get one that doesn't draw right or whatever, then, okay, you know, they give another shot or whatever. Handmade product. But yeah, dude, but when you don't have it, when it's back ordered, they go on trying another thing, and they don't even remember the fucking brand, dude. Yeah.

The one with the letter, the 809, are you talking about the 601? The 601? Yeah. Yeah, that one.

That's the one. Yeah, dude. It just happened upstairs. A guy came in and he said, "Oh, Johnny" something.

It was a Johnny cigar. Like, Johnny Tobacco? No, not that one. It's got red lettering on it.

Red lettering on it? What the fuck is this guy talking about? Yeah. So then you go back, you look at the data, you try and figure out the customer name, the customer ID, when he made the purchase.

We can't find the data. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, what is this guy? Did he come in here?

Right, right, right. You know? What was it? Oh, I don't know.

I don't know what they finish off, we went downstairs, we went downstairs. It's like that Echomano guy, he makes all the cigars in the industry. The guy's crushing it. He's crushing it.

He's a fucking bad dude, dude, yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, Plasencia, you know, he's one tier lower than Echomano. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The names of the names that people come up with.

Oh shit. Macadonals, Macadoodles, you know, yeah. The cows. And the CAOs.

Yeah, the cows, that's right. I'm a big cow fan. Yeah. You like the cows.

All right. Well, let's go upstairs. Let's do this. This has been a great podcast, man.

My pleasure, brother. Whenever you do it. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on.

And thank you so much for driving up, dude. Ah, dude. My pleasure. I love you guys, dude.

For me, you know, I smoked a couple cigars on the way up here, and, you know, now we're gonna rock and roll. That's it. I wish you nothing but success, you and your team, your family, brother. You know, I root for you guys, and I'm not that guy.

I don't look at you guys as competition, I look at you guys as friends, and there's enough room for everybody, that's what people don't understand, there's no need to badmouth anybody out there, you know, unless they're crooks, there's a couple guys out there, you know what I'm saying, and there's no need to badmouth anybody out there, you know, and I'm the guy that buys cigars from everybody, you know, people ask me, you know, what do you smoke, I smoke everybody's stuff, not for me to know what they're doing, I just want to try different stuff. - Right. - I get tired of smoking my own shit, I do. - You wanna mix it up.

- Yeah, you wanna mix it up, you know. - Sometimes you want penneata vodka, you know. - Right, sometimes you want white chocolate bread pudding. - That's it.

- Every day is different, you know. - That's it. - But thanks for having me. - Thank you, man, I appreciate it.

- You got it, my brother. - All right, let's go. - One, two, three, four. I'm out.

Show Notes

Replay Episode: The Erik Espinosa Interview — Special Edition

To celebrate this Friday night’s big ticketed event in the Hustler Private Lounge, we’re bringing back one of our most popular conversations — the unfiltered, hilarious, and surprisingly deep sit-down with Erik Espinosa.

In this replay, Erik talks shop, drops gems, breaks balls, and gives that signature Espinosa energy that always lights up the studio.

Whether you’re coming to the event or just want to relive a classic, this episode sets the tone for an unforgettable night at Hustler.