Cigar Hustler Special Episode Erik Espinosa

Episode Summary

In this special episode of A Cigar Hustler's Podcast, Erik Espinosa of Espinosa Premium Cigars sits down for a candid, friend-to-friend conversation that skips the usual product pitch. He opens with a recap of La Zona Palooza, the annual consumer event held at his La Zona warehouse in Estelí — roughly 250 guests, house rules about drinking and respect, and surprise appearances from Guy Fieri (who did a Q&A) and Godsmack frontman Sully Erna. Erik explains how his partnership with Guy Fieri on Knuckle Sandwich came together the Friday before the COVID shutdown, and why Sammy Hagar told him Fieri would be the best business partner he'd ever have.

The heart of the episode is Erik's blunt advice to anyone thinking about launching a cigar brand: don't. He walks through how he got in — repping for Drew Estate and Rocky Patel, knowing every shop in Florida — and how winning Salesman of the Year and getting a $20,000 bonus and a pink slip on the same day forced him to start his own company with his son. He describes the dark early days of buying his own cigars back from a wholesaler at wholesale prices, why he'll never take a business partner again, and his core belief that retailers buy the person, not the cigar. Getting placed is easy; reorders are the hard part.

Erik also gets personal: his 89-year-old Cuban father who's been smoking cigars since age 12 and still pockets cigars in cargo pants at the warehouse, his mother as his rock, growing up one of five kids in the projects after leaving Cuba, and how respect shapes his relationship with his son Erik Jr. He opens up about developing anxiety during COVID after a health scare, dismissing it as "weak" until it hit him, and how daily meditation and breathing work turned it around. Lighter segments cover his self-taught cooking (penne alla vodka with San Marzano tomatoes, reverse-engineered white chocolate bread pudding) and a running bet he lost to the host about an election-year shutdown.

The business talk closes on the million-dollar question every boutique faces: how do you reach the casual smoker who buys Montecristo and Romeo y Julieta on the golf course? Erik is honest that he's not where he wants to be, that 2024 is flat-to-down like most of the industry, and that even with Cigar Aficionado coverage and a Big Smoke booth, plenty of consumers still don't know who Espinosa is. He also discusses the importance of Connecticut wrappers as the real volume seller, why Drew Estate is a vital gateway for new smokers, new releases like Chicago and Sixth Province shipping that month, and wraps with his take on the scripted-feeling Mike Tyson–Jake Paul Netflix fight.

In This Episode

1. 01
   La Zona Palooza Recap
   Erik breaks down hosting 250 guests at the La Zona warehouse, his house rules, and surprise guests Guy Fieri and Sully Erna of Godsmack.
2. 02
   The Guy Fieri / Knuckle Sandwich Partnership
   How the deal came together the Friday before the COVID shutdown, Sammy Hagar's endorsement of Fieri's work ethic, and what celebrity attachment actually does for a cigar brand.
3. 03
   Why He Tells People Not to Start a Cigar Brand
   Erik argues retailers don't need anyone's cigars — they buy relationships, and reorders, not placement, are where new brands die.
4. 04
   Fired Into Entrepreneurship
   Winning Salesman of the Year, getting a $20K bonus and a pink slip the same day, and the brutal early days of buying his own cigars back from a wholesaler.
5. 05
   Taking Care of the Team
   Why his sales crew stays at the host hotel, eats well on the road, and why he'd go broke before laying anyone off.
6. 06
   Family: Dad, Mom, and Respect
   His 89-year-old Cuban father who's smoked since 12, his mother as his rock, growing up with four siblings in the projects, and how respect shapes his relationship with his son.
7. 07
   Anxiety, a Health Scare, and Meditation
   Erik opens up about a COVID-era blood pressure scare, discovering anxiety was real, and how meditation and breathing techniques fixed it.
8. 08
   The Million-Dollar Question: Reaching the Casual Smoker
   Connecticut wrappers, gateway brands, Big Smoke anonymity, flat 2024 sales, and new releases including Chicago and Sixth Province.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

We are officially here with the Alpha Dog himself, our dear friend, Erik Espinosa. What's up, man? They got to clap a little louder than that, bro. I paid my dues.

Thanks for having me, bro. You think so? You think you paid your dues? I have.

Yeah? I think you have. I think you most definitely have. 24 years doing this, I mean, I think I have.

And we've been friends for a little while now. We have. We have. And, man, you know, you've always been a mentor for me in many ways, and I really appreciate that.

You've always given it to me straight. And this is going to be one of those interviews where it's two friends kind of talking, and we're not going to talk about your normal bullshit that you normally talk about. Good. I'm glad.

But before we get into some of the details about things, I do want to cover briefly that you just had Lozano Palooza. Yep. How did that go? Because you looked a little stressed.

You had some shit going on. Yeah, I mean, look, you have about 250 people in your home. That's the way I said it. It's in the warehouse.

It's not in my house, but that's a home away from home. And you want everything to come out right, you know? You try feeding 250 people. you try having 250 people with a lot of libation in the place, you know, and not have any issues, you know?

Yeah. You know, I got to make sure everything's okay. Because here's the thing that I tell everybody. We have our rules down there.

Right. And they're very simple. Aim the mic a little bit more towards you, just so you know. You can, there you go, that works too.

They're very simple rules. There you go. You can drink all you want as long as you don't bother nobody. Because the problem is that people take vacation time.

They take that week off just to go to Lozona Palooza, and they pay their fare, and they pay for their stay, and I want them to enjoy themselves. You know, we don't talk about race, religion, politics, none of that, and I want everybody to meet everybody, you know? If you have too much to drink, you gotta go. You can come the next day.

Right. But when you start bothering somebody, I have an issue with that because, again, I don't know the stress level or the financial of, you know, Of getting there, what everybody has. So I just want everybody to enjoy themselves, have a good time, and listen, were there any issues? Minors, minor bullshit, like always, but for the most, it was incredible.

We had Guy Fieri there, you know, did a Q&A's, and then we had a little surprise. We had the lead singer of Godsmack there, Sully. Yeah, Sully was there, yeah. You know, it's funny, I've never heard a song.

I don't like, I'm not at the heavy metal. I don't understand that. I'm not at the heavy metal. How have you not heard this?

Dude, because I, when I grew up, I was big into Rush. I liked, as far as heavy metal that I would ever go with, probably Led Zeppelin. I was a big fan of Leonard Skinner. It's still like 70s, 80s.

You know? You never kept up with music? I mean, what happened? No, dude.

No, the, uh, the, uh, eight tracks came out. And that was the end of it for you, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

And then the CDs and then, you know, the tapes and all that. You know, I, when When I was traveling salesman, I got into a book on audio, so I read a lot of books, I read probably all of Dan Brown's book, Da Vinci Code, and all those, and then John Grisham was a good one, if I remember, so I would buy them and just listen. Now I just listen to a lot of sports radio. Gotcha.

So all fiction books, no personal development things, none of that stuff, huh? No, because... No Tony Robbins kit back in the day? I don't need anybody to motivate me.

Yeah, that's true. I really don't. I, you know, I like everyone's different, you know, everyone has a different style and how they sell and I don't, I really don't need, I wake up in the morning and I, when I'm home, I go to the gym and I have a power shake when I'm done and I'm ready to go, I'm ready to roll, I'm, I just... You're ready to go?

I'm made different I guess I don't know I don't yeah I think that you are I don't need nothing or anybody to motivate me you know if you find me somebody who likes to lose I'll show you a loser right I don't like to lose in anything I know you and I gotta talk about that speaking of that I was gonna lead into that if you want so you know I really don't I don't you know listen I'm off for everybody being successful right yeah I really don't you know and I do listen to people But here's the difference: you can be successful at what you do, but they don't know shit about the cigar world. Right. You know, it's no different than I told Guy. I told him no, you know, since we're on that subject, and he asked me why not, because, just because it's called Knuckle Sandwich or Guy Fieri doesn't mean it's gonna sell.

Right. Unless you do something about it, and he has, you know, so, you know, and I don't care what, I don't want any outside advice. advice on telling me how to run my business now sure i can get advice on financial and uh you know and advertising and all that yes but as far as selling cigars no well i mean that's what you do you've done it for a hundred years but there is definitely some some uh some part of an alliance there with you and guy as far as looking to develop and grow a vision right so you know He knows that he aligned with you, because you're good at what you do, right? You're good at sales, you're good, you're good at marketing, you're good at creating cigars, all those things, right?

" You never seen the show? No, I have, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know the cool slogan logo that you guys call it, or whatever the hell, you know, like-- I really thought he was one of the Backstreet Boys, I swear to God, you know, before I met him, because he looks a little bit, I hope he's not listening to the show, but I'll clip that so you can, I'll tag him. No, dude, I really, I really didn't, you know, I didn't know anything about him. I knew about the show and I would follow him because I have the app before we even met and all that.

I didn't know anything about him, you know, but I liked what he told me, you know, and I did a little bit of research, and then the first time we met, the second time we met, I was talking to Sammy Hagar, and I'm not dropping names, I really don't care, but they have a tequila company together, and Sammy shook my hand and looked me in the eye and told me, that'll be, that's the best business partner you'll ever have in your life. I believe that. and he told me this guy's a non-stop. He's non-stop working.

His work ethic is better than mine. She told me he's promoting, promoting, promoting. And he gets mad. Like, we were in the Food and Wine Festival in Miami.

And we went, you know, you got to dress up a little bit. I dressed up a little bit. Right. And he's ready to call me on stage.

He looks at me and goes, where's your fucking shirt? The Knuckle Sandwich shirt. And I'm like, dude, I didn't know you were going to call me on stage. He's like, I said, I got an idea.

Hold on. There's a good friend of his that I gave a shirt to, and he wore the shirt, and I said, "Hey, come here, bro. " Nice. That's awesome.

All right, so I want to get into some other things. One thing that you, you know, we've always had back and forth conversations throughout my journey in this industry, and I'm grateful for all of it, because you definitely have an honest perspective of things, right? now one thing that i always hear you say is somebody's getting into the cigar industry you say hey don't do it don't do it don't do it right now so then why the hell did you get into the cigar industry like why did you you were you started off just to briefly surmise drew estate rocky patel whole thing i mean you're big deal right and then you decide to go into your own And at that time, did you know what it was going to take, or did you just, or were you also kind of like, you know, blind into it? You know what I mean?

No, here's the difference. I had the connections. Right. Because I had already done, I had already rep for other people, and I knew a lot of the stores.

Yeah, you were the guy that would come in, you played the Domino's, and people would have to buy the assets. Cassids, yes. Correct. Or whatever.

However that was. And I knew every single shop in Florida. Right. I was just telling somebody, I used to come here before you guys owned it.

Yeah. I remember they had a bird called Arturo. They had a bird. They had a parrot.

You know what's funny is there was like a two or three year lull where there was nothing here. Really? Yeah, we had no idea it was a cigar store. So I have a lease.

I had the whole state of Florida covered. Now, when I had a, I did it with a business partner, it was Eddie, and he knew a lot of the other people in the States, the big accounts and all that, so I have a huge advantage, so when somebody approaches me and I tell them, who are you going to sell it to, let's stop and think about this, you have your own brand, and you're successful in your brand, but it took you a long fucking time. I mean, it's been 10 years of abuse, and it's nowhere near where it needs to be. " You know, so I don't think they need anybody's cigars.

Now, how do you sell cigars? A, they gotta be good, but mostly all the cigars out there are good. Yeah, I don't know. Well, a high percentage of them.

Okay. Okay. I'll give you that. Right.

I'll just agree. Okay, a high percentage of them, but why are people going to buy your cigars, the retailers? Right. Because of you.

Right. Ain't got shit to do about the cigar, bro. Sure. It's because of you, the relationships you build.

Right. Okay, now, getting it in the store is easy. Right. The reorders where it becomes a problem.

100%. Now, you're doing something. something you have this podcast yeah you you ship you you know you have a mail order you have your own retail shop so you have a huge advantage other than joe blow who hangs out in a cigar shop in wyoming and don't know and don't know a fucking person in the industry and they think they're gonna you know they're good and i tell everybody i can make you the best cigar in the world and it don't fucking matter right even with money let's stop and think about what i'm mentioning names here all right just i want you to reminisce a little bit sure so there's people here in the industry now that i've tried for three four years who got a well i wish i had a nickel for everybody actually like they got money and they're fucking flat broke but especially in this industry yeah you reminisce a little bit there's two or three guys out there they're fucking tycoons according to them right they're not successful no not even close and that's my point yeah you can have you You can have fuck you money, and it don't mean you're going to make it. People smoke cigars from people who they like.

That's true. Because if I come in here, which we have the event tonight. By the way, we're running some specials and you can get a lighter. But I know this don't happen next week anyways.

So anyway, you know, and I become an asshole to somebody or, you know, they're never going to smoke my cigar again. I don't give a fuck how good the cigar is. Right. You know, it's the little things that matter.

You know the the impact you have on people and um and at least they'll give you a shot and that's all I ask for somebody to give you a shot right and getting back to what you asked me these these people have no connection they have no I tell them the only way you can make it work you got to be great in social media and sell it to the consumers right because the shops it ain't gonna work right I think it's too late in the game but but to bring it kind of back so you felt that because you had those connections you could build a brand and I was forced. You were forced. I was forced to do this because one time I won Salesman of the Year with one of the companies and I got a bonus check for 20 grand and a pink slip the same day. See you later.

" Right. It didn't matter. So, and then, you know, you guys know my story. Then that same day I called my son and I was still repping for her.

I still have Drew Estate and Rocky at the time. " You know what I mean? Right. Because to me, college is overrated, dude.

I get three, four, two. I think knowledge is power, don't get me wrong, but I think a lot of people go to college and never do what the fuck they want to do. No, I mean, you got to have a vision if you're going to college. Yes, and you got to like it.

You got to like what you do. If you love what you do for a living, you never work a daily life. But it, so, you know, and I said, look, can you take that shit online or whatever, you know, I'm not a tech guy, so I really don't know about those things. And he said, yeah, dad, I can.

I said, all right, well, why don't you, you know, I need your help. Now, at that point, I got screwed by several people. Cigar industry. He's cigar industry, sir.

Yeah, and I said to myself, I'm never going to have another business partner. Because I tell everybody, there's a ship that's guaranteed to sink all the time. And that's called the partnership. And I said to myself, never again would I have a partner in any business.

So I said, I have this vision. There were some dark times, man, dark days. I mean, I had to buy my cigars back from a wholesaler who bought them all and pay the wholesale price on them to sell it to the stores at the wholesale price. Oh, my God.

Because I didn't have a factory, I didn't have nobody to make the cigars for me. It was fucking horrible. Wow, man. That is absolutely incredible.

Dude, it was, and I had to pay for the shipping from where they were at, when I mentioned the name, to get it here, then to, then to, I was losing my ass. I think the first time that we met, I just, I had popped into like a smoke in or some shit, and you were doing, La Bamba had just launched, it was brand new, I said, oh, I got a cigar store up in Deltona or whatever, you said, oh, hey, take down my number, whatever, we'll be in touch, and that was kind of the beginning of it, so you were out humping it and just putting in the I think they're so structured, you know what I'm saying? You tell them at 7 o'clock, you don't have to work as soon as your brand started, you know? But now you kind of fast forward, you have some people under your own corporation, you still have some brokers and stuff like that, right?

I mean, you got, look, Tyler, I love, right? Richie's amazing. Jack's amazing. Hex, you have some fucking solid guys.

We do. I got some soldiers, man. In your crew. I, um, you know, I'm a huge military guy, even though I wasn't even born in this country, but I support our military and I think they're so structured, you know what I'm saying?

You tell them at 7 o'clock, you know what I'm saying? And they're there at 6:50. Right. You know, and I, look, some of these times, I like to get home when I'm done, so I get the earliest flight out, I don't care if it's 4 o'clock in the morning.

Right. And I'd say, just leave me in a hotel, close to the airport, I'll Uber to the, no, no, no, no, no. No, there's no way you're taking an Uber, I'll take you. Right.

No different than Tyler, Gavin, Josh. These guys would tell me, no, I'll get up, I'll be up, and they're, and I'd be damned if they're not up before me. They're knocking on my door, hey, let's go. Let's go.

And then they get, and then they get, they go home or whatever, you know, we're at the same hotel, whatever. And, um, but I like shoulders. I like people that, and I compensate them. I, you know, I take care of my people.

They don't, you know, yeah, I believe that because I haven't heard an ill word about anybody who's worked under your business with your actual corporation, right? Like these guys think the world of you, you know? Um, and that's kind of, that's gotta be good to hear. Because I'll tell you right now, if Jack were talking shit, I'd tell you that.

Listen, they stay where I stay. You know how expensive the trade show can be. I don't need to tell you that. But wherever the trade show, the host, whatever hotel, we're staying there.

Right. And everybody's got their room, and I'm not putting them across the street on a $59 hotel shit. Right. I get, I pay a lot of money for the padding, just for the padding at our booth.

Right. You're on your feet the whole time there, dude, and you have to be comfortable, you know, and, you know, I take care of them, man. We don't need garbage at Espinosa Cigars. I don't go to McDonald's, Burger King, or none of that bullshit, you know, because you pay for it later in life.

So, we're going to go out to eat. We're going to go out to eat. And they deserve it, man. If you've got people that are with you, you know, I don't mind spending the money on my guys.

I really don't, you know. I remember, I'm a big fan of Dana White. " Right. Non-negotiable.

If we don't have the money, I'll sell my house. Right. We'd go broke first. I'd go broke before.

100%. Before I'd let go of people in tough times. And they know that. Right.

So, you know, a lot of my guys don't want to go nowhere. You know what I'm saying? Right. I was telling them the grass is not greener on the other side, you know?

Why would you want to go somewhere where you got a GPS up your ass? Right. I don't think they're looking, buddy. I don't think they're looking, you know?

There's too much entertainment alone going on at Espinosa Cigars to go anywhere else, you know? I do want to talk about one other thing as far kind of that comes out of Lozona Palooza. It's one thing that I've always noticed is your dad is always there. Yeah, your dad is always with you a hundred percent of the time.

I mean, that's my ride or die, bro. Yeah. So like what, you know, how, how is that relationship kind of formulated? Was he, was he a hero to you growing up?

Like, what was he to you? And, you know, where is your relationship now currently? Right. You know, being Hispanic, we think differently than a lot of Americans, because I hear horror stories, I hear Americans, and there's nothing wrong with that, everybody raises their kids however they want, you know, but most Americans, when their kids turn 18, they're out.

They're like, gotta go. Gotta go, not us, we don't want them to leave, you know what I'm saying, we want the kids to stay with us, you know, we want them to get married and all that, but, you know, you don't gotta leave, you understand. Now, if you're a bum, and you don't have a job, and you don't this, you're playing video games and smoking weed all fucking day, it's a different story, but I don't know, I've never asked my dad this, but my dad would do things for us to hate cigars, I'll give an example, because one of the things I hated the most in life were cigars, man, my dad being Cuban, I laugh at people when they tell me, hey, come over to my house, I have this man cave to smoke cigars, dude, the whole house was this fucking man cave. My dad was smoking the toilet, my dad could be taking the dump and smoking the cigar.

I swear on my life, I turn in a car, one time I want my dad to change cars, the whole gauges, you couldn't see it. I swear on my life, the guy gets in, you know how they do that test run and the guy goes, "Dude, I didn't even know how fast I was going. " And it was brown, I mean brown. And he would chew the cigar.

And whenever we're, I must be eight, nine years old, he'll come by us and go like this with a cigar. You're like, you know, you're spitting and you'll never see my dad without a cigar and it looks like a paintbrush. Now, I know you might not believe me, but my dad eats cigars, being Cuban, my dad's been smoking cigars since I think he's 12. You know, in Cuba, that's how you did, you know, you work in the farm and you would chew tobacco and smoke cigars.

" Oh, he wanted a picture? Yeah, he got a fucking picture. He don't even know who the fuck guy is. He has no fucking idea.

He's never watched Dinah Drive. You know, he speaks very little. You know, he understands, especially the cuss words and all that, you know, the Spanish. But I remember one time, I gotta tell you this funny story.

So, we used to have a pig farm. Okay. And it's ironic. Dude, our pig farm was next to Oliva.

Oliva had a pig farm too. because since they made my very first cigar, I'm going back years ago. And when I get to the house, you know, I show them the cigar, and he goes, who's making this for you? Now, my dad don't know no shit about cigars.

He knows the short filler shit they used to sell before I got in the business. You know, they were selling the grocery stores and cafeterias. So he tells me that, and he goes, oh, Liva, who, Gilberto? I'm like, Dad, how the fuck do you know this?

He goes, we had the pig farm together. " But that was our, you know, that was our story, dude, growing up, but we're very, very, very tight. So he was, so he's always kind of been a hero to you than I would assume? Oh, absolutely, dude.

He's very, very, I'm a spitting image of him, dude. He, he, he straightforward. He don't give a fuck. He don't sugarcoat a fucking thing.

He tells people what he's got to tell them and he don't give a shit who's around them. He doesn't care, you know, but right. You know, he, he doesn't disrespect nobody. He tells people, you know, if you're wrong, you're wrong.

And, and I'm a spitting image and, and, you know, you know, he's my hero. Of course he's my hero. He's, you know, a lot of things I learned and I didn't learn a lot from him because he was always working to provide, you know, and everything I had to learn. And I never held it against him 'cause I know what we did.

It's not like he was screwing around. Right, right, right. But we always, remember, we're five. If you bought one bike, you have to buy five bikes.

You know what I'm saying? And growing up, you know, we lived, when we came from Cuba, we were in the hood, dude. I mean, it was, you know, we were in the hood, the hood. I remember one time, I think I was three years old, and I still remember this.

I swear to my life. I don't remember how old I was, three, four, five years old. And we remember those piñatas? Mm-hmm.

So I pulled the piñata, and bro, people came out of the woodworks, I mean, they came out of the woodworks, I didn't get one fucking candy, I mean it was in the back of these projects, and everybody just came out of the woodworks, dude, I didn't even get one, and I'm crying and shit, you know what I'm saying. Right, that was dope candy. That was us growing up, I'm sure a lot of people have their stories, you know, we didn't have a lot of money or anything like that, you know, but he's definitely my hero, bro, he's a bad motherfucker, bro, 89 years old, And he goes to the cigar, bro, he steals my cigar, he takes cargo pants, so my mom, my mom's a prankster, so my mom weighs them, you know, there's a big scale there for the pallets, so we weigh him when he gets in, and then we weigh him when he gets out to see how many cigars he takes cargo pants, they got pockets everywhere, this is my fucking place, you know, and I'm like, yeah, dad, alright, you know what I'm saying. I remember one time, Erik needed some pictures of these, of this box, it was a new project we're doing, he goes in his office and grabs them and fuckin' start smoking them and shit, and Erik, who took the other cigars, we're trying to find out, everybody that knows we need it for the picture, so we had to bring the ones in the bottom and put different cigars in and just set 'em up top, 'cause we only had 20 cigars, only one box of this, yeah, it was wrecking, he's the best though.

All right, so, you know, one person that you never talk about, though, is your mom. My mom, my dad and my mom are day and night, day, my mom goes to church almost every day. Yeah. My dad's a, don't gamble anymore, but my dad used to be a drinker, cigar smoker, and they meet in the middle, but my mom is my rock.

Right. Yeah, that woman, I tell you, when that woman tells you something, bro, I don't question it. She tells me, you know, she prays for me all the time. I got to talk to her every day.

If I don't talk to her once a day, I'll help break sleeves. No kidding. Yeah, the next day, you forgot you have a mother, you know, yeah, yeah, and... She hit you with a slipper?

Back in the day, I never got hit a lot, but when I did, it was my mom, and remember that Richard Pryor joke? But my mom wouldn't, you know, I would tell her, it never hurt, but I would tell her, hurry up and finish. You know what that would do with the bell? I told you not to.

Hurry up and finish your sentence. Hurry up and finish your sentence. I mean, you know. But my mom's my rock.

I tell you what. Listen, my dad's nine brothers and sister, and they're all here in the States. Holy moly. Right.

And we're the biggest. We have five, but another one has four, and three, and two, and all the cousins. My dad and my mom's house were where everybody hanged out at. So anybody got any issue, they call my mom.

call my mom anybody needs advice they call my mom my mom's a rock i remember my mom telling me one time i was 18 years old and i used to use my brother's id to go to the club and she goes you ain't going out i said mom i'm 18 years old you're not going out tonight and my cousin's calling me dude i said i'm embarrassed to tell him i got to i don't feel good i don't feel good but i couldn't tell him my mom because you know that's a punk move right and then she woke me up like at three in the morning said let's go your cousin's in the hospital he he he was drinking and you know and And he got into an accident and he hit a light pole on the side I would have been in, you know? Wow. Yeah, dude, so I don't question my mom. When my mom tells me something, dude, I don't question her at all.

So you had four other siblings? Yes. You have four other siblings? Yes.

Are you the oldest, middle, youngest? I'm the youngest. You're the baby. I'm the youngest, yeah.

Got it. I'm the youngest, bro. Got it. We're very tight.

I mean, they were all there, except my other sister lives in Tennessee, but-- Right. You've seen them. I don't know if I've introduced them to it because, you know, it's so busy and so hectic there, but... But they're there.

They're there, yeah. No shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No shit.

That's incredible, man. Yeah. See, I would have never guessed you were so close to your mother. Oh.

Never would have guessed in a million years. I won't go to my dad. I have so much respect for my dad. I'll give an example.

I would never get naked in front of my dad. I can get naked in front of the whole world. I can do shit, seriously. I would never get naked in front of my dad, out of respect.

I don't know what it is. And so I try to incorporate that with Eric. So I would take showers with Erik, you know, when he was younger and stuff like that, but Erik won't do it to me. " He goes, yeah.

Where'd you guys go? Strip club. Oh, nice. Who was there?

I mean, this was before he got married and all that. Right. And I said, who was there? Oh, me, your son, so-and-so, so-and-so.

I said, okay, motherfucker. I said, why didn't you fucking invite me, bro? Right. You know?

I guess it's a respect thing. You know, I would love to have gone, but I don't know if he can do that with me. You know? Your kids are young.

Wait till they get older. You'll understand exactly everything that I'm telling you. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, yeah, I won't be incorporated on specific things. Right, they won't, you know. Right.

I don't know if it's... They just don't want to, you don't want, they're worried about how you're going to perceive them afterwards. Correct, but I'm the cool dad. I mean, I'm the dad that all his friends would hang out with, you know what I mean?

I'm the guy that, you know, that they called me in the office one day and he had this loud horn. I bought him a pickup truck and they called me in the office. It was a private school. And, you know, your son, every time at lunchtime, blows his horn every day and the kids, he scares the kids and all that, and I look at him.

This is from the principal. True story. I said, you do that every day? And he looks down.

He goes, yes, because he doesn't lie to me. And I said, do me a favor. Only do it on Mondays and Fridays and give the kids Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday off, you know. And I look at the principal.

Are we good here? Right. What the fuck are you calling me for this bullshit? I fucking take off.

I'm that guy. I'm that dad. You know what I mean? Right.

Oh, I'll talk to Eric. I heard And a little birdie told me that you're actually into meditation. Yeah, but you meditate a lot. I, I used to do a lot more.

Um, I just feel that everybody needs to relax the mind, especially minds minds, uh, not that my mind races a lot. It's just so much information, a lot of useless information, but, um, I struggled with an anxiety and my, my stepson suffered a lot from anxiety and I really thought that was a, A pussy shit. I really thought I thought that was for weak motherfuckers. You know, boy, was I wrong.

You know, could you think one way until it hits home? Right. And, and until you experience your experience. And then during COVID, I got a real scare with, um, I've never taken a pill in my life.

At 50 years old, I never took a pill in my life ever. Um, you know, I would take vitamins, but never a pill. Right. You know, of course, the minor headaches or whatever.

And then, um, you know, one day I was, I went to the warehouse and I didn't know anything about blood pressure and this and none of that bullshit and then I didn't feel good and they called the rescue and all this shit and anyway I had high blood pressure and they put me on these pills and I just wasn't feeling right you know and then I went to the doctor and then they did a stress test everything was fine with the heart but when I did the stress test you gotta run and all that shit the doctor tells me look there's something not right. And I needed to do a sonogram, not a sonogram, what is that called when you go into the tunnel and they put an MRI, but with the iodine and all the bullshit. Like a CT scanner or something like that? Yeah, whatever it's called.

So the day I go there, you know, no big deal, I'm gonna go do it. " And I kind of freaked the fuck out, I'm like, "What the fuck, nitro? " Bullshit. I just wanted out.

I just wanted out. " And I never went. " So during that period that I didn't do it, I was kind of freaked out. So then I didn't know what anxiety was, dude, I really didn't, and then that's when I developed it, and then I started talking to people and shit like that, and then they said, you know, I remember Caldwell would have these little liquid that you put under your tongue, you know, it's like a CBD type shit, and that would calm you down, that shit works like crazy.

So I would, you know, I would have hot flashers, dude, and I thought that was just for women, you know what I'm saying, and I experienced all this bullshit, and then I started meditating, dude, and all that shit went away, you know? No shit. " and she's calmed down everything is good if not i would you know i would have called you yesterday you have seven percent blockage on one artery eight on the other and nine on the other and i tell her what does that mean she says a doctor won't even look at you unless you have 50 percent on something you're fine you know keep doing what you're doing and and whatever i need you to lose a little bit of weight whatever and all this shit you know so so then you know and then i started doing the meditation there's this thing called the daily calm and i recommend this to everybody I try not to sweat the small shit, you know what I mean? So if you wake up in the morning, you go to the gym and all that, dude, and you got the kids, and you got the business, and I'm sure you have some stress in your life, and it calms you down, dude, breathing techniques and all that, the martial arts used to do that, when I used to do martial arts, that would really relax you when you're done, because you're so spent that you don't want to do anything, and they teach you how to breathe.

When you fight breathing is a lot, you know, and so I incorporated all that, and I'm fine now, you know, I don't, you know, I don't suffer from anxiety anymore, I don't, you know, I'm, you know, but I'm, that meditation should help like crazy. Yeah, I mean, it could always rear its head back, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, if you do the right thing, sure. Everybody has it though.

Right. Everybody suffers from anxiety. When you have a big trauma in your life, okay, that's when it comes out. Right.

You know, but unless you've had a big, big trauma in your life, you know, a lot of people don't. Because a lot of people, you know, people take things and there's some people that are so laid back that nothing bothers them. Yeah. And that's the way you should live your life.

Super chill. I can't. Yeah, you're not built that way. I'm not built that way.

I don't think I'm built that way either. I got news for you. Yeah. That's pretty incredible, man.

I heard also that you fancy yourself as quite the chef. I wouldn't say that. I'm not a chef. By all means, I'm not a chef.

But one thing I do, I learned, and this has nothing to do with guy. Absolutely nothing. This is pre-guy. This is pre-guy.

With all my travels, whenever I go to a restaurant, and they have something that's good, and whatever I ate, the best thing that I ate in a restaurant, which is, I say is above average, it was spectacular, I try to make it at home. Try and replicate it. What I do is I get the menu, I call them, "Hey, can I have that menu? " I don't, but I just take a picture of, without them seeing me, I take a picture of the ingredients and shit, and then I try to go make it at home.

Right. And I learned that a lot of people don't know these things. People go to McDonald's and Burger King, I feel, 'cause they don't know any better. Right.

Once you try the pizza in New York, you don't want to eat pizza anywhere else. Right. I try the best. It's hard to go backwards.

So I try to buy the best possible ingredients whenever I'm cooking. I don't cook corners when I cook. Am I a good chef? Hell, no.

Do I make good dishes? Absolutely. What's your best dish? Penielabaka.

Yeah? Yeah. That's your go-to? That's my go-to.

How often do you make it? Depends on whether I'm on a diet or not. But I've made that dish in Philadelphia, California, Jersey. I've done it at home a bunch of times.

But I make it really, really good, and it's just little things that people don't know. Tiny little intricacies. That's all it is, and good ingredients. Right.

I use these tomatoes that are called San Marzano tomatoes, they're some of the best tomatoes in the world, a lot of people don't know. And it comes in a can, it doesn't matter that it comes in a can, they're the best tomatoes. I rinse them off, take that canned flavor shit out of it, and I make my sauce or gravy or whatever, depending on what part of the country we're in. Because some people call it sauce, some people call it gravy.

Right. But it comes, it comes out, out of this world. The secret is, when you're done with your sauce, because I put prosciutto, onions, all kind of shit in there, when you're done with your sauce, you got to get a frying pan, and then you put the penny, then you put your sauce, and then you grade the cheese, and then you put a little bit of parsley or whatever, but then you let it sit there, and you're like refrying it, so you're like sort of sauteing it, now it becomes thick. Yeah, just by doing that little thing, 'cause some people do the pasta, the sauce, and they put it together, and here you go, nah, it don't work that way.

Nah, it's a process. It's a process. You gotta do it right. It's a process, yeah.

And I do a phenomenal white chocolate bread pudding. Really? Yeah. How have we not had this?

Palmer, how have we not had this? You don't... It sounds amazing. You don't have a kitchen here.

Dude. You know what, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna make this a thing. I'm gonna make sure that whenever you come up again, Whenever that is. We'll do it from your house or wherever, give me a stove, all I need is an oven, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you the ingredients, how you do it, and I'll show you the process, and you pay me a little bit of royalties for the, for, well, you gotta make the ashtray back.

I'll tell you how I did this, I went to a place, it was a restaurant, if I'm talking too much, bro, let me know. No, you're good. We go into this restaurant, and I ordered one, I ordered the, you know, dessert, and it was incredible, and I couldn't wait to go back to this place. The food was okay, from one to ten it was a six, seven, but the dessert was a ten, and I go back another day, and I tried to make it at home, but it wasn't, it couldn't do it.

I went back again, and I ate one there, and I took one to go, and in the morning I woke up, and I went to get a little slice of it, and it was hard, the white chocolate was hard. " 'Cause I used to do the white chocolate chips. Right. What they use as a brick.

" And then I started doing the brick. And now it tastes the same. It's fucking delicious. And I put raspberry, blueberry on top, strawberries.

You reverse engineered it. Yeah. That's how I got. Look at you.

That's how I got those motherfuckers. That's hilarious, man. I love that, dude. All right.

Alright, couple brief things to surmise, and then we'll wrap this up. Number one, you lost the fucking bet. Fair and square. Look, I don't think I did.

Look, I love, I just want you to know, I cherish the fact. Well, let's tell America what the bet was. I have no problem telling the bet. I cherish the fact that you continue to be upset about the fact that you lost the bet.

Well, he lost. He doesn't like to learn. Well, I paid my, I paid up. You did, you paid all.

I thought it was a gray area. I really did. Rubenosa always pays his debts, I get it. Okay, I thought it was a gray area, okay, um, I, I don't remember exactly, um, some of the details of the bet, but, and I'll tell America, I, I said, I said, listen, if, come election time, something big will happen, it'll be either COVID, it'll be, uh, uh, something that, that, because...

You can go ahead and tell your side of the story here. I like the smug look on Michael's face. You can go ahead and tell your side of the story. You and I both know that all these politicians are full of shit.

Of course. Okay, so they're gonna do everything possible to win. So, my bet to you was that something big was gonna happen, either another COVID, a fucking disease, the fucking banana chocolate strawberry disease, some big shit was gonna happen. Chocolate strawberry disease, right.

Alright. Banana chocolate strawberry. Possibly banana. Whatever the fuck it is.

It could be bananas. Or strawberry. And we got a date and the date came and you text me but I think two or three weeks before that the Democrats changed their candidate from Biden to Kamala. Right.

Never in the history of the free world have we. And I think that's huge. That's fucking big, dude. Yeah, I will agree with you.

That is big. You just nominate somebody a hundred percent. Right. That's huge.

And that's why the bed is still a gray area, because that's big. Now, if I didn't use the word something big would happen, and then I shut the fuck up and I lost. Right. Okay, now, if I just said banana, cherry, strawberry, fucking disease, or COVID, another number of COVID, and then you want fair and square.

But if I use the word big, then I think it's a little fucking gray area. So let's back this up for you. Here's what I love about you. I love you to death.

All right. When you get on your tangents. Okay. You're elevated, right?

A little bit. And you're going. All right. Right?

And you say verbatim. Okay. I will bet that they are going to shut down the entire country again for COVID. And I said, I'll take that bet.

And you said, all right, well, you had said specifically it would be like June. " I'll give you to August. " And I said, "No problem, I'll give you more time. Did you pick the date?

" Yes, you sent me the date that it expired, yes, and the date, yes, you did. Specifically, what it was. I would have to go through my text, I don't think specifically. I'm not a betting.

Listen, I lost, I paid my debt. Yeah, but I love this, this I love. I paid my debt. Of course, you did.

I think you gotta give me another chance, because there's still a little gray area. We can do another one, that's fine. But I think there's a little gray area. We can do another.

By the way, I give three flying fucks about the ashtray and whatever I sent you. I don't even know what the hell I sent you, but, you know, I did good on the bet, but I hate to lose. I know. I love that.

You're probably the only guy in the country that's ever beaten me in the bet. Yeah, I was gonna-- You know Abe has those dollar bills and all the bullshit. Dude, you're just beating me to it. I was gonna say, I was gonna have you say I lost a dollar to Abe, but someone else is already doing that.

I have two of them from him. Yeah? Yeah. You have two dollars from Abe.

I have a $5 bill, and I had a $10, but I was broke in Vegas, I think I put it in a straw machine. I slipped in something. We could have Eric sign the ashtray. But I had two somewhere, I think I have them in the office, but I have two from Abe.

I don't bet unless I'm like a dollar. But listen, I lost. I caught you. I would tell America, all your listeners, I lost.

I lost. You can't win them all. I lost. You can't win them all.

Because the details is my fault. I wasn't specific and I blame myself. I don't blame you. Well, you were specific.

That was why I took the bet. Something big did happen though. That's not what you said. First time in history.

It's not what you said at the time. You know, of course. George Washington didn't do that. Abe Lincoln didn't do that.

Yeah, I get it. Listen, George Washington didn't go to his mother's funeral. What are we saying here? Abe Lincoln fought a guy in a ditch.

I mean, like, come on. Nobody's done that, you know. To equal the height. I don't know.

It's crazy. Yeah, dude. Okay, a little bit of business talk and then we're going to move on, all right? We're going to go upstairs.

We're going to have a good time. We're going to sell some Eric Espinosa cigars. There we go. It's going to be fantastic.

Okay, so, COVID hits, and then shortly thereafter, you partner with Guy, right? Yeah. Actually, it was the day, it was the Friday before the shutdown. Really?

Yes, Abe's event was that Saturday. Okay. I meet him on Friday. I go to Saturday after Abe's event to the Food and Wine Festival.

No kidding. And then Sunday and then Monday, I remember going to the TPE in January. Okay. And you had people wearing masks and I've never seen that.

Yeah, it's crazy. I didn't know what the fuck that was about. And I'm always a prankster. I would see the Asian girl had a mask on and I'm thinking the smokes bother.

Right. I looked at her and I said, "You have a lighter? I can borrow just to fuck with her because she had a mask on and shit. And of course, no English, no English, whatever.

But I didn't know what that was about. I never experienced that. " I think we were coming back from Philadelphia and we started to see people wearing masks and stuff, right Palmer? I believe that's what it was, yeah.

But anyways, okay, so tabling the 2020 year and looking at 2021, 22, or 23 and 24, right? So four years. I think that you have scaled a lot. You've been very successful in a lot of things as far as your company is concerned.

This is me just spitballing here, but I think that that's accurate. Are you where you want to be? No. No.

Not even close. Not even close. Oh, not even close, bro, no. But, I have the same issue that every other boutique brand has.

How do you get to the regular guy who don't know shit about cigars? Sure. Because you sell more to guys who don't know shit about cigars. You know, I compete with, you know, the malittles of the world, the Soccas of the world, the skips of the world, yourself and all that, and we have basically the same fan base.

Sure, we share a lot of consumers. We share a lot of consumers, but the golfer, or the guy who don't know shit that goes out and gets the name brands, how do you get to those guys? That's a million dollar question. And in my lifetime, I've seen maybe, I would tell you, maybe six companies that have done that.

Right. They were where I was at. The Rocky Patels, the Perdomos, the Olivas. You know, that's the million dollar question.

How do you do that? Yes. Has Guy helped? Absolutely.

Of course. I've had a lot of celebrities that I've sent boxes of cigars through Guy, the Appuccinos. But Appuccinos, I don't know if he's ever smoked a cigar. Right.

You know, if I send him a box and he don't snap a picture with it, you know, I would love for him to snap a picture. i'll post the fuck out of it but you know um that's the million dollar question bro how do you get just like you you you know you you ship product how do you how do you get to to the guys who um you know who smoke the monte crystals and the romeos and you know and stuff like that you know that's you know their name brands they're very powerful and but you know i want a piece of that right just don't know how to do so that's your vision you want to you want to cut into that Well sure, but whoever doesn't tell you that they want to do that, it's insane, and I know that some people do their business differently, and they're content of where they're at, you know, I don't, I'm not going anywhere, I don't want to sell this company, I want to leave it for my son, you know, but I need to leave it, you know, flush, you know what I'm saying, I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong, that's not what the question is, right, right, but, but, here I'll tell you, your listeners this, probably cigars you don't smoke, Mike or a lot of your consumers, Connecticut, that's the number one selling rapper in the world, Connecticut, at least in this country, you know, but we don't smoke it. I mean, you might smoke one or two, you know, do you? I do.

I don't. Because I made a badass one. Okay. All right, cool.

Now you made some, I made some to sell, but it's not, but yes, but here's the thing. A lot of people don't talk about that, right? You know, when, when, you know, it's not, but it's not, but yes, but here's the thing. A lot of people don't talk about that, right?

You know, when, when, you know, it's a It's got to be medium to full. You know, when's the last time you heard, oh, I smoked this great, you know, Connecticut cigar? You don't hear that. You do hear it, but not as much as you do the other ones.

Right. But you smoke, you sell more Connecticut than anything, you know? Yeah. And that's the target.

How do I get the guy? And it's the million dollar question. And how do you educate that guy? Because a lot of those guys are smoking bullshit Connecticut.

Well, they don't know. Right. And I don't think they care. No.

I don't think they care. They're in the golf course and all that. How do you make them care? And that's why Drew Estates is so important to our industry, man, because it's a gateway cigar, you know, when I used to rep them, you know, and they start smoking the acid in the fat bottom belly and then they move up, you know, and, but how do you get them to smoke, like, listen, I do fantastic with Cremor, you know, and the Knuckle Sandwich Connecticut, but I can't get it to the everyday Joe Smoke, you know.

Right. How do you get those guys, or women? It's tough. Yeah.

That's the million dollar question. So is that what you're planning on working on in the coming years? Absolutely, absolutely. That's something that, you know, I'm targeting.

How do you do it though? You know, it's hard. I remember Rocky, I know how some people got there. Rocky had three great hits back-to-back-to-back.

Right. Which he had the Edge, the Java, and the Vintage. And he had three monster hits back-to-back. And that escalated to, brought me the big smoke, just to give you an idea, I'm in the big smoke about a month ago, I have the magazine they did an article on me, in the big smoke, I got one of the, in Cigar Faccionato, one of the highest rated cigar, okay, we got both magazines they're showing.

And I'll be honest with you, you know, there was 4,000 people there, I took maybe 50 pictures. Right. You know, it's not a lot. I took a hell of a lot more, but when Guy was next to me.

But Guy wasn't there the first day. I was gonna drop that joke. You just beat me to it. Right.

You're two for two on me. But Guy was there the second day, the first day. Right. I mean, these are guys that read Cigar Aficionado.

I have no idea who the fuck Espinosa is. No idea. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and tell you all, you know, everybody knows. You know who I am.

Right. A lot of people don't know where the fuck Rocky Patel is. No. No.

You know. And that's my point. There's people go there and then, and then you tell them, you ever heard of 601, Muschielago, Knuckle Sandwich, this, that, no. What do you smoke?

Oh, you know, and, and then they, they tell your brand that you're like, oh, okay. So I, I'm like, you know, I, I give up once I hear the brand that they smoke. I'm done with you. You know, but you're advertising aficionado.

I'm out there. I've been to every state. I've been to mostly, I would tell you, 70% of every retail shop in the country. Not everybody knows who the fuck we are.

Right. You know, and how do you get there? You got to keep knocking on doors. And I don't know what the formula is.

Any of your listeners know what the formula is? I'm all ears, bro. You know, I'm all ears. Listen, I don't need to tell you.

You know the struggles. Yeah, no shame. I don't have to tell you. Yeah, absolutely.

Anybody comes up to me and tells me, you're a crock of shit, dude, get the fuck out of here. Who the fuck? One thing I don't do is lie, dude. Right.

You know, it is, listen, every year at the trade show we sell more. You know, every year we sell more. This year's a little flat for mostly everybody. You know, I gotta have a big month, you know, to surpass last year.

But I talk to everybody, everybody's flat, everybody's, you know. Yeah. And the economy is... Yeah, well, I mean, but realistically, when everybody says they're flat, you're probably down.

They're probably down, right. One thing about me, dude, I'm too old to lie, 'cause you gotta remember your lies. No, I'm a little down, but I got some new things. I got the Chicago shipping, the Sixth Province, I got a bunch of shit this month.

Yeah, you got a lot of things exciting. This month, right, that'll probably get me there. You know, if we're up, not a hell of a lot. And if we're down, not a hell of a lot, but every year, my goal, since I started the company, we've been up.

The whole company, we've been up, you know, every year grows, it grows, and it grows, and more and more people getting to know who we are, you know? I think that's true. I honestly do. You know, we're not flat, you know, we're definitely climbing, we're on the right path.

I think you have more people in La Zona this year than you did the past two, three years. I can put a thousand people in there, I just can't, I don't know where the hell to take them though. You know what I mean? And I don't mind doing that, but, you know, it's so intimate, it's so, you know, We don't have a big space, so that's the reason, so who do I invite?

The people that post our cigars the most and buy a cigar the most. Yeah, it just felt like, to me, there was more there. I'm going to tell you right now. Yeah, it could have been.

I don't know if my son handles all that, but you know. Because I want to go hide in the back. I was like, let's go hide in the back. Let's go hide in the back.

You were following Hector's office all the time. I stopped to see Hector, yeah, and then the conference room was pretty cool with Jack and Tyler. I saw a Mike Tyson fight there. What a fucking wage.

I can't get those two hours back in my life. Well, you know. It was so script though. Not to change conversation, but that was script.

Well, we can end it on that. So, you know, at the end of the day, you got a guy that's really good at marketing. Yes. And then you have another guy who's not going to say no to 20 million fucking dollars.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, imagine, right? Like, hey, you got to show up.

You're gonna get paid 20 mil, you know, legacy intact, we're gonna protect you, we're gonna protect, and I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't, I think that it took a minute for Mike to slow down. Like when he started off the gate. Yes. He was like, yes, like he wanted to know that.

Did you see him train? Yeah, of course. It's nothing that what he did. No, there is, there is a guy like that, you know, a legend like that.

I know you don't believe me, but I look you straight in your eyes and I swear, I swear, I'm going to And if he sold my life, I wouldn't do it. What, the 20 million? No. I actually do believe you.

There's no fucking way I'm going to sell my soul for any amount of money. Well, you think that he sold the soul. I don't think he sold the soul. Well, he's old.

People gave him a pass because he's old. And probably people gave him a pass. But he looked like an ass. When he's told his brother, I'll fight you.

Right. And that's where I know something. Because his soul, he wasn't even there. And when he told his brother, and his brother said, I'll kill you.

You know what I'm saying? I know of a script. A million percent had to be script because there's no way in the world a guy, because he's a monster. Now, he was biting his gloves, and I don't care what nobody said.

Would he do it when he fight? Very little. He was biting his gloves the whole fucking time not to throw a fucking punch. Listen, don't throw a punch, motherfucker.

You know what I'm saying? Of course. There's no fucking way that, you know, I would have put my life, you know, that Tyson was, I was hoping he clocked the motherfucker and all that, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

But something was wrong there, you know? Listen, he needed the money, he wanted to do it, hey man, congratulations, whatever. He's 59 years old, right? I'm 57, dude.

And I promise you, promise you, give me two months, and I would have had a better showing than him. Okay. But at the end of the day, right, he's 59 years old. He's got nothing to prove, right?

That's my point. He's done a lot of these great things. But he's making good money now, is what I'm told, I could be wrong, he's got the weed business, he's got those gummy ears with the ear bit off and all the bullshit, yeah, you know, so, did he need the $20 million to do a fucking shit? I don't know, you find $20 million on the ground, you're gonna pick it up, you're gonna fucking kick to the curb, but look, you know, at the end of the day, I think that the reality is, he's 59 years old, so, you know, no matter how great you are, we all still tuned in.

I guess... It was on Netflix. But I'll never do it again. Well, I wouldn't have bought it, but it was on Netflix.

And I did the buffering, and I got fucking frustrated the whole time. Dude, we were at our warehouse, and I thought it was me. I was so embarrassed, you know, every five minutes, but then I realized it was the whole country. Right.

They got, I guess, I think they're being sued. Are they? That's a bigger thing. Like, you know, Netflix not having the capacity to handle that was definitely the biggest egg on the face for the entirety of the whole thing.

And they had some good, look, they even put some good fights before it. Are you a boxing fan? No, but, you know, I was watching those fights and I'm like, damn, this is really good. You know, I'm a competitive fan.

Like, I like UFC, you know. The cigar is very good, by the way. Thank you. Thank you.

San Andre. Postanic? Postanic. Postana.

Postana. Postana. Yeah, that one won't come out. And why Postana?

What does that mean? Because it means uprising. Uprising. Yeah.

Okay. So why is the arrow pointing down? Well, because it's actually Polish revolutionaries where we pee with an anchor. Okay.

So we just kind of modified it. How many letters are in your last name? Fifteen. How many are in Schwarzenegger is the real question.

How many of those? Fourteen. Fourteen. One better than Schwarzenegger.

You upped them one? That's it. That's it, baby. And how do you pronounce your last name?

It's Szczeponkiewicz. Szczeponkiewicz. Yeah. Good stuff, right?

Yeah, that's not coming out until the show, but, you know. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to tell the whole world. No, you're good. You know, I don't care.

But I wanted you to have something special. You know, this is a special occasion. I love this size, bro. Cigar's really good, bro.

Congratulations. Thanks, man. I'm working with good people. That's what it is.

You got to work with good people. People you can trust. People you can trust. Yeah, because a lot of those people don't know that this is a chain here.

And who makes the skip? Yep. Roma. Right.

So, Nika Swing. Yeah. So, Roma. So, see, here's the difference.

They have their own company. And they know that it's a chain, because if they make bad shit, you understand, we're not making Cuban cigars here that are dog rockets and nobody complains and they don't ship it back, so when they make cigars, it's got to be done right, because it's a reflection of their brand. No doubt. Everybody knows they make it and it's a chain.

One guy can get one that doesn't draw right or whatever, then okay, you know, they give another. Handmade products. Handmade products. But yeah, dude, but when you don't have it, when it's back ordered, they go on trying another thing, and they don't even remember the fucking brand, dude.

The one with the letter, the 809, are you talking about the 601? Yeah. Yeah, that one. That's the one.

It just happened upstairs. A guy came in and he said, "Oh, Johnny" something, it was a Johnny cigar, like Johnny Tobacco. No, not that one. It's got red lettering on it.

Red lettering on it? What the fuck is this guy talking about? So then you go back, you look at the data, you try and figure out the customer name, the customer, The customer name, the customer ID, when he made the purchase, we can't find the data, I'm like, what the fuck, like, what is this guy, did he come in here, was this the, I mean, what the fuck, you know? What was it?

Oh, I don't know, I don't know what they finished up, we went downstairs, we went downstairs. It's like that Hechomano guy, he makes all the cigars in the industry. The guy's crushing it. The guy's a fucking bad dude.

Yeah, it's, you know, Plasencia, you know, he's one tier lower than Hechomano. Yeah, dude, it's like, yeah, dude, the names of the names of people come up with, the Macadonals, Macadoodles, you know, yeah. The cows. And the CAOs.

Yeah, the cows, that's right. I'm a big cow fan. Yeah. You like the cows.

Oh, dude, it's great. All right. Well, let's go, let's go upstairs. Let's do this.

This has been a great podcast, man. My pleasure, brother. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on.

And thank you so much for driving up, dude. Ah, dude, my pleasure. I love you guys, dude. For me, you know, I smoked a couple cigars up on the way up.

Chigars on the way up here, and you know, now we're gonna rock and roll, and I wish you nothing but success, you and your team, your family, brother, you know, I root for you guys, and I'm not that guy, I don't look at you guys as competition, I look at you guys as friends, and there's enough room for everybody, that's what people don't understand, there's no need to bad mouth anybody out there, you know, unless they're crooks, there's a couple guys, and there's no need to bad mouth anybody out there. You know, and I'm the guy that buys cigars from everybody. You know, people ask me, you know, what do you smoke? I smoke everybody's stuff.

Right. Not for me to know what they're doing. I just want to try different stuff. Right.

I get tired of smoking my own shit. I do want to mix it up. Yeah. You want to mix it up, you know, and sometimes you want penne alla vodka, you know, right?

Sometimes you want white chocolate bread pudding. Every day is different, you know, but thanks for having me. Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

You got it, my brother. All right, let's go. One, two, three, four!

Show Notes

A in depth interview with Erik Espinosa