Cigar Hustlers Podcast 212 Brian Desind Privada Cigar Club

Episode Summary

Episode 212 of the Cigar Hustlers Podcast welcomes back Brian Desind of Privada Cigar Club and the Limited Cigar Association (LCA). Brian arrives with a surprise: a custom cigar blended for the Cigar Hustlers, made with Guillermo Rodríguez at Tabacalera Perla, a mostly Nicaraguan blend finished with an unusual (and expensive) Bolivian wrapper. The hosts smoke it on air and walk through the draw, the box press and the chocolatey, creamy first third.

From there the conversation gets candid. Brian addresses the fallout from a recent appearance on another cigar podcast where his blunt opinion about an unnamed industry figure was edited out and the episode re-posted — and the hosts weigh in on grudges, transparency and unedited podcasting. Brian also opens up about stress and road rage, telling a run of stories (a downtown Orlando parking incident, a valet fender bender before a Leon Bridges concert, and the Rolex 24 traffic jam) that prompt a genuinely funny and self-aware conversation about letting things go.

The industry talk is the meat of the episode: what retailers should be doing to create new cigar smokers, whether celebrity endorsements still mean anything in cigars (Joe Burrow, Mario Lopez, the Jonas Brothers cover), the diminishing pull of Cigar Aficionado's Top 25 — this year's Padrón winner drew no rush of demand — and Marvin Shanken's outsized historical role, with a nod to Stanford Newman's "Cigar Family" as essential reading. Brian explains why TPE left him bitter about the cigar industry's shrinking footprint, why he questions attending trade shows at all, and why the hosts think he should go to PCA anyway for the camaraderie with the hundreds of LCA retail accounts. They also dig into Halfwheel's Top 25 (My Father Humidor Deluxe at No. 1, Tatuaje T110 Capa Especial, Hoyo de Monterrey), the enduring pull of LFD's Andalusian Bull, and why cigar reviews may no longer move product.

Brian, a self-described RoMa Craft superfan, runs through his daily rotation — Intemperance BA XXI Brotherly Kindness in the morning, CroMagnon Anthropology or Cranium midday, Neanderthal HN to close — and previews a trip to RoMa Craft in Austin with Skip Martin. The news segment covers the FDA opening applications for a new Center for Tobacco Products director as Mitch Zeller retires, the $4.99 Diesel Sunday Gravy from Justin Andrews and AJ Fernandez, J. London's Gold Series Pyramid for Luxury Cigar Club, RoMa Craft's Europe-only Wunderlust PG County, and Austin's boil-water notice. The show closes with the story of the Kentucky woman who started smoking cigars six months earlier just to win Privada's wrapped Dodge Charger giveaway — and the cease-and-desist Chrysler sent afterward.

In This Episode

1. 01
   A custom Cigar Hustlers cigar
   Brian Desind brings a cigar he had made at Tabacalera Perla with Guillermo Rodríguez — a mostly Nicaraguan blend under a rare Bolivian wrapper — and the crew smokes it live.
2. 02
   The edited podcast controversy
   Brian addresses the other podcast appearance where his candid opinion about an industry figure was cut and the episode re-uploaded, and the hosts discuss editing, grudges and transparency.
3. 03
   Stress, road rage and letting it go
   Brian shares a string of driving incidents in Orlando and at the Rolex 24 that have him rethinking how he reacts, with the hosts offering some blunt advice.
4. 04
   Growing the cigar consumer base
   Whether retailers are creating new smokers, the role of infused cigars as entry points, and why celebrity endorsements no longer sell cigars — from Joe Burrow to Mario Lopez.
5. 05
   Cigar Aficionado, Marvin Shanken and the Top 25
   Why the No. 1 cigar no longer causes a run on the humidor, Brian's pitch to modernize Cigar Aficionado, and what Stanford Newman's book reveals about the industry's history.
6. 06
   TPE vs. PCA and the state of the trade show
   Why TPE left Brian bitter about cigars' shrinking share of the floor, and the hosts' argument that the value of a trade show is the retailers and relationships.
7. 07
   Halfwheel's Top 25 and whether reviews still matter
   Breaking down My Father Humidor Deluxe at No. 1, the Tatuaje T110 and Hoyo showings, the perennial demand for LFD Andalusian Bull, and why review scores may not move boxes.
8. 08
   RoMa Craft deep dive
   Brian's daily RoMa Craft rotation, the Privada Trail Mix collaboration, and a preview of the trip to the RoMa Craft office in Austin with Skip Martin.
9. 09
   Industry news roundup
   FDA seeking a new CTP director, the $4.99 Diesel Sunday Gravy, J. London Gold Series for Luxury Cigar Club, RoMa Craft's Wunderlust PG County for Europe, and Austin's boil-water notice.
10. 10
    The Charger giveaway and its aftermath
    The Kentucky winner who took up cigars six months earlier to win the wrapped Dodge Charger for her husband — and the cease-and-desist Chrysler sent afterward.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

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Transcript

I hate being rushed. Welcome to episode 212 of the Cigar Hustlers podcast. Calm down. Don't give me trouble, Mike.

My life is one big rush. I'll make you sleep on the floor the rest of the week. I, you know, I can't see that happening. This isn't nice and straight.

You're a mess. I got you. Greg threw that over here. He cleaned off his desk, which means everything comes over here.

It's true. You too can become part of our podcast family and invest in our show. Put your products in front of thousands, literally thousands of listeners and viewers every episode. We are heard on 13 different podcast providers weekly all around the world.

We're also voted the number two cigar podcast to listen to in 2022. Yes. Yes. Remember to please rate, comment.

Podbean. It wasn't Podbean. It's some website that does it every year. Oh, yeah, it's true.

Who's that guy? We don't know. We don't fact. We don't know.

We just go through this. Somebody told us we were on it. Oh, good. We'll talk about that.

Number two. Please remember to rate, comment, and subscribe. And that's a different show. That's it.

That's it. Mike will introduce our guest. We have Brian back again. Brian back again from the Limited Cigar Association.

Yes. The world wide web. So I reached out, you know, it's been a couple months. Yeah.

I haven't heard any, like it's been kind of quiet. Kind of laying low. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. So I wanted to check in on you. Yeah, no. And that turned into this.

Hey, I'm coming up. Yeah. Well, I told you, I had sent you a design. Yes, you did.

And you were like, yeah, that looks all right. Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm down.

And so, we made for you all. Boom. Your own cigar. Oh, look at that.

We've custom made a cigar for you all. How fucking awesome. Which I'd like to smoke with you right now. Hell yeah.

It's beautiful. We'll put a picture up here. Ooh. On the video.

Look, it looks like it's right here. I like that. A little nick on it. It's okay.

If they have nicks on them, let me know. So who made them? Yeah, no, we made them with Guillermo down at Tabacalera Perla. Okay.

It is a mostly Nicaraguan cigar. It's got a really good Nicaraguan blend. And on the outside, we actually experimented with a wrapper from Bolivia. And I love it.

I'm a big fan of this cigar, so I hope you guys like it as much as I do. It is nice, right? It's a beautiful wrapper. It's a very expensive wrapper.

Well, you know, you guys show me a little love and I like to add value, you know, where I can. And so I thought that would be a nice way to say thank you. I have to use those too. Don't take notes.

Yeah, thank you. All right, guys, there's your cigar. I need this. They're mine.

I did one other podcast since you guys. Really? You did? Yeah.

You did do one? Yeah. Yes. Coops?

Yes. Yes. It wasn't this guy? It wasn't this guy?

Who's number one? No. Hustler? Oh, it wasn't David Garoppolo?

No, it wasn't David Garoppolo. David Garoppolo loves us. Oh, he loves you guys? No, he has no idea who the fuck we are.

Yeah, right, okay, got it. We met him at TPE. Yeah, and he's like, hey, how are you guys? Good to see him.

I'm like, this guy has no fucking idea. He's in New Hampshire, I mean. I don't even know if they have the internet up there. No offense to anyone.

Well, his show actually is the number one show. Yeah. He always beats us on the national ones. He's the number one.

According to who? Everybody else. Well, who knows? We do beat him on Podbean.

Wait, we don't beat him on Podbean. We do. Because we're good at Podbean, yeah. Okay.

Hey, listen, who am I to say anything about anyone? Right? Well, speaking of which, I mean, I had checked out, I had went to bed during your podcast, I was like, I watched it for about the first hour, and then we heard about it, about the, you know, the full drunk Brian, and I was like, please, for the love of God, just somebody send me this clip, I want to know what the fuck happened. Yeah.

Now, I won't give up my sources, but we did get the clip. We got the entire show. So, so we got the, we got the second of it. So, I mean, you know, cool.

If you want to address it, you can, you know, if not, we can let it go, it's up to you. Yeah, no, I think we should address it. That could be his thing, he comes on here and talks about something he did somewhere. It's a review.

Talk without being edited. " We get the review, Brian, the totally sober Brian. It's perfect. It's the next day.

It's like the hangover edition. Yeah, no, I went on the show. He's a nice enough guy. I mean, everyone knew we had a little bit of friction with him and the people that he surrounds himself with.

It was a great interview. I thought so, too. I got, you know, there is obvious, can I use that letter, please? This one went up.

You can't keep that either. Well, he did take my other one ended up on the other side of him, too. He's got a pile of cutters and ladders over there. I am right-handed, though, in my defense.

Are you sure you want Palmer to talk? Right. You starting it, I'm sorry. So...

You are correct. Give me that back. Give me that back. At the end of the show, I'm just going to pass everything back.

Let's do it. Here's your keys, here's your wallet. This is good, man. Initial light?

Yeah. Fucking A, man. Thanks, bro. Chocolatey, creamy.

Okay, so, and you're very welcome. Many more. So, did the thing, you know, they definitely, Aaron Loomis, he was definitely waiting for that. Dude, I love Aaron.

He was waiting for that interview. Only guy that talks less than me. Yeah. " He came, he brought the heat.

He did bring the heat. He's definitely not a fan of my methods. " But, you know, it was cool. I didn't, I think that, I'm not gonna say, like, my, well, I mean, my opinion on it was it shouldn't have been edited.

But it's not that big a deal to me. It is a big deal to a lot of people that watched it, though. And that's where I don't want you know them to have a negative reputation based on one show that we did right it didn't you know it didn't it didn't hit well yeah I could see that you know for those that don't know I did a podcast yeah a person's name came up I said he owns you guys they said no way he does it and I said okay so let me tell you let me tell you my opinion on this guy I gave my opinion yeah the podcast went up and within 48 hours it was taken down that part was edited out and then it It was reposted. Right.

Exactly. Well, we have it right here. Would you like to say something? He did do that.

Well, you know, it's, yeah. Yeah, that was definitely interesting, you know, because of like, you're going, you're working things through, right? Like I'm seeing, I'm seeing the development of Brian, not only just Provodica, but of Brian. Sure.

Right. And like, man, there's so many similarities. There's so many experiences that you have that have been similar to me. similar to me but the difference is you know i you know i i do like the guy right and and you know and i understand why you don't and why you have your feelings about him you know what i mean who are we talking about now the one guy that you went on the diatribe the guy's name we can't say oh okay so like i i get it you know and i understand i understand where you're coming from yeah he must not be all bad because a lot of people that i like yeah like him he's not he He really isn't.

He's always been very nice to us. Yeah, you know, and I can assure you that other people in this industry have not been very fucking nice to me. Not even close. I mean, to a point where, you know, I've allegedly had fucking ATF come in here over and over and over again.

Wow. And all types of crazy shit. Department of Agriculture. I mean, like to a point where these guys were coming in like, I honestly have no idea why I'm here.

What they said is that you don't even carry that. Right. You know, that type of shit. So, he's never done that.

He's never done anything like that. whenever i have ran into him and come across him he's always been very gracious to me you know never i've gone into other shops and like those owners have pulled the reps aside like why the fuck is he here get him the fuck out of here you know when i'm just legitimately going in to kind of support and you know be like whatever yeah you had a problem with that yeah yeah yeah so never done that to me yeah never in a million years i'm gonna need your driver's license so So that's all right. If it's a fire, it's a skull. But, but I, you know, it's like, it, this isn't the first time that something like that has been said about somebody in the industry.

The difference is, you, you were bold enough to fucking say it on a podcast, you know, which I don't think has ever really, you know, other than us kind of just fucking saying whatever the fuck we want, you know, talking to anyone except the same people I've been saying the same They think they're gonna watch it. Right, so, you know, I do hope that you guys eventually kind of see eye to eye. Welcome to the, listen, nice guy, it was a fun time. Coop's a sweetheart, he's a sweetheart, he is.

But, you know, I hope that eventually you kind of mull things over and, you know, you guys do at least get to speak at one day, at one point, and, you know, it's all fucking fine and dated because, as different as you are, you guys are the same in so many avenues too, you know what I mean? So, um, and I could see you guys fucking ironing it out one way, one way or the other, you know? I think he holds a grudge, though. Who?

That's one thing that I don't do. Right. I don't hold grudges, unless you like fucking disrespect my, you know, my fucking family or something. Like, I really just don't hold grudges.

But it was fun for us. We enjoyed it. We enjoyed it. It was a good job.

Yeah, um, shout out to the person who gave us the source. So we have a drink for you here, if you'd like to start drinking and just talk to anybody you want. If you want to get drunk, you know what? Fuck some more people.

That does wonders for our ratings, whatever you want to do. Yeah, whenever you blow up. We don't edit anything out, I really don't know how, so. That's not entirely true, we have edited some things out.

Twice. Yes, when we felt that what they said would cost them their jobs. Right, well, the second guy, he didn't work for the industry, I can't remember his name, the older gentleman, who's now dead. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He made some racial, sexist comments. Is your draw good? Yeah, mine's perfect. Oh, mine works great.

This is delicious. This is great. Okay, yeah. It's got a lot of tobacco in it.

And that's always hard when you do a box press. But yeah, mine's drawn fine. Good. Listen, it's all fun.

Well, I'm not taking money out of anyone's pocket. They're not taking money out of mine. And that's the whole thing, to that industry, because I do feel like I'm kind of in a different timeline. Right.

Like it's like pre-internet post-internet or pre, I don't know, whatever, pre-electric vehicle post, you know, so it's like, I feel like we're, we're in a different thing and we have a different audience. Right. It doesn't mean Ford's going to go out of business. They're going to do more business than ever.

Right. It's just, we're in a different, I totally agree. You know, and I know that we kind of touched on this before, but like, one of the things that I always believe in is, you know, what as retailers are we kind of doing to create new cigar smokers, right? And I really feel like that's kind of fallen to the wayside that's never really been a good subject that's ever really kind of been addressed.

And do I have the solution? No, but I will try in any way possible to expand, you know? So, J. Drew did a good job with that with the flavored cigars, right?

That's a good entry-level smoke, yeah. Yeah, so with acid, acid kind of did that, and then we're doing that with the online social media stuff. Right, and I think that there's also some validity with the whole fucking Joe Burrow thing, quarterback smoke cigars. Oh, we're sure, we're sure, we're sure.

Excuse me, and he was open about it. You don't see too many celebrities. I mean, Mario Lopez came out about smoking cigars. Mick, Mick, Mick, I'm such a bad sports guy, but Mick, Mick, Mick, Mickonis, McMahon.

Oh, thank God. I don't know anybody. Quarterback. Ed McMahon from Johnny Carson.

Oh, Joe Burrow. That's him. Joe Rogan from the. Joe Burrow.

Well, he was the LSU guy. Now he's the Cincinnati Bengals quarterback. He's the one with like the most expensive rookie card. As of right now?

Probably. Yeah, put it in terms of. Is there another guy? Look, curly hair.

Might be of a mixed race almost. Kaepernick? Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, Kaepernick.

No, not Kaepernick. No, no, no. Young dude. So maybe it is Joe, but I just don't know the name because I'm terrible at sports.

Okay, yeah, so he's like, you know, he was smoking the cigar at LSU when they won, and then, you know, he's made his way into the Super Bowl after two years, I mean, he tore his ACL year one, so, and they were all smoking tabacs or whatever, I mean, you know, it's questionable what they're smoking, but they're still smoking, god damn it, I'll take it. They were smoking tabac. Yeah, he's a big flavored guy, he's a big infused guy. Wow.

Yeah, yeah. Boy, we got to infiltrate that situation. Can I say something else? Yeah.

Anything you want. And I love this about this generation of cigar, like where we are in cigar culture now, celebrities don't sell cigars. It's fucking amazing. This is one of the few industries where it's almost hurts you to come out with a celebrity representing your stuff.

Right. I love that because it means that there's something real or more authentic here than that. Right. Well, I mean, before, if you were a cigar guy as an actor or celebrity, and you didn't say anything about it, and then 15 or 20 years into your career, you said that you were a cigar guy, you got fucking blasted.

C. Slater, Mario Lopez. What, he got blasted over this? Yeah, he did a tweet back in the day about a cigar, and people were like, shame on you, and all types of shit.

One of the singers from Backstreet Boys, or the little guy. It wasn't Backstreet Boys, but it was one of the boy band groups. Not Fatone, right? Jonas Brothers.

Jonas Brothers. He got shit about being on the cover. Yeah, right. You know what I mean?

It's the highest viewed cover they've ever done. I believe it. I believe it. Speaking of which, top 25 cigars came out.

Yes. Number one cigar, Padron, the Torb. I haven't even looked. This is the first, this is maybe the second year that there was no flurry of demand for the number one cigar out of Aficionados.

Oh, you're right. Nobody's come in looking for it. " That's where I'm getting at. I don't want to pick on them in particular, although who gives a shit?

It's the evolution is what it is, it's not fuck the company. Dude, I reached out to Cigar Aficionado last year, and I was like, let me help save, revive, let me help create the next chapter. Bring it into the modern day age. And they were like, hey, you play golf?

And I was like, nah, and they're like, okay, cool, see you later. I'm serious, that's basically our conversation. It was like, first of all, Marvin is much older now, he's definitely on some retirement shit, and who could, I mean, the guy is epic, we did like a quick video on him, like Cigar Icons, and like I went over his history, I mean, this guy is, forget about cigars, he's a publishing magnate. I mean, cigars were the last thing he did, and when you read books from like "100 Years of Tobacco Family" from Stanford Newman wrote, which is the best book I've ever read on cigars, it will give you a complete global view of the last 100 years of cigars, and it really puts things into context.

Like, all of a sudden, you're like, oh, like, this current thing is just one chapter of, okay, and when you know where something was, you know what not to do sometimes, stuff like that, right, so it was really interesting for me, and what he said, that there was the cigar industry before Aficionado, and there was the cigar industry after Aficionado, and he wrote in the book, like, a thank you to Marvin, saying, like, you made all of the shit years worth, you know, and we finally made money, and we had a good time, and cigars were respected, and so, So I'd like to think that that's something that Privada is doing, too, is throwing some respect back on the name in the culture, because if not, it's going to be, oh, you smoke, that's bad for, no, it's not really, like, come on, let's get with it, young, healthy people smoke cigars. Right. I mean, the potentially Super Bowl champion. Smoking his tobacco.

Smokes his tobacco. Loves his tobacco, you know, so fucking A. I mean, I fucking work out all the time. Yeah, you're in great shape.

Yeah, well, you know, it's a shape, but, you know, it's not the shape I want to be in, but it's a shape. I can lift a car over here. I can lift a car, but, you know, I can pick up a lot of heavy shit, for sure, but, you know, I mean, am I, am I the fucking epitome of, you know, what I want to be? Bro, you're going to live a lot longer than most Americans.

A hundred percent. If you get that stress under control, Mike. Top ten. Well, then I need to get...

I was talking to your wife today. You've got to get some... I need to cut you out of my life. Yeah, don't break.

Cut me out. Well, so... What fun would you have? No, I run a football team with my six-year-old.

Wow, okay. So, I run the defense. We lost our first game this week. Did that bother you?

Yeah, it bothers me a little bit. It bothers me a little bit. And I'll tell you what bothers me. What bothers me is the fact that we do two or three simple things on defense.

It's like, hey, I need you to do two things. Number one, always keep your eye on the, and I finish, they let them finish, ball. Okay, good. Eye on ball.

Always eye on. I mean, they're six. I know. That's what I want to say to you is that they're six.

They're five and six. You know, eye on ball. Not even fully six. And we're guarding an area because it's zone defense, right?

So stay home. They already know more than I do. Right? We're going to sit tight.

Are you going to sit tight? Right? First play of the game, and first of all, these guys are waiting for us because I beat them like three weeks ago. So now they want to beat us.

They do like a fake handoff. to one kid and the kid runs away and all my entire defense is gone they're going after this kid and the kid that doesn't have the ball and i'm like guys i'm yelling one of the kids names carter right and he was the guy with kid that was right next to me i'm like carter carter like i see them going carter like i'm yelling yeah i'm like the balls over here you know what i mean so like going yeah i on the ball he's over here like the ball not the guy the ball you know so they instantly So, of course, I'm a little bit chapped about it because my crew didn't listen to what I would want. The five-year-olds that you're leading. Yeah, the five-year-olds, six-year-olds.

They keep emphasizing the answer. In the heat of the moment, they forgot. Right, well, but that's the whole aspect of the game, right? You get caught, you get caught up in it, you make a mistake, and like that happens all the way up into the NFL.

So, like, how do you try and eradicate that from the kids, right? So, fuck yeah, I'm not happy about it, but don't worry, I'll fix it. I'll fix it, you know. Extra practice.

Everybody, next week. I know I feel bad for these kids. No, you know what, dude? It's supposed to be fun.

It is fun. Dude, I'll tell you what. All the rise open. We gave turnover chains for everybody last year.

Turnover. Like, it's like a big, we made like big-ass gold chains. They're like plastic chains, and they have the Chargers logo because we're the Chargers team. Like, you know, believe me, I am not aggressive to these kids by any means necessary.

I promise. Like I give a shit about these kids, you know, and I want them to have fundamentals. I want them to learn and develop, right? I don't want them to lose.

I want to, if I'm going to lose, it's got to be straight up, right? It's got to be, they just outplayed us or, you know, they just worked a little bit harder than us. It's not, hey, this is the one simple rule that you're supposed to follow and you didn't follow, right? So, yeah, of course, I'm a little upset about that.

You can edit this out of the... Absolutely not. No, no, no, no. Believe me, my shit can stay on.

So, alright, so, we covered the fact that you're upset about. The stress, he's talking about the stress. The stress. And this added to your life stress.

No, it didn't. You carried it off the field. When the game was over, the game's done, it's lost. But I can assure you, next time we meet them.

I've been having a stress in my life. Yeah? Yeah. Like, and...

We don't hang out, just so you know, it's not me. And it definitely, like, made me act out questionably recently. Okay. And I don't know what it is.

And it's to the point where I'm considering like, just driving, taking Uber from now on, getting a driver even, which I don't go enough places to sign me up, that's his dream, I'm in, so I just want a driver, I just want to get in the back, so I was downtown in Orlando, got, both things happened with my family, which I think added to the stress, so I have my wife and my child, a four year old girl, and we got ice cream. And we're in, I just got a Hellcat, not a Hellcat, a Trackhawk. Okay. I have no idea what the fuck that is.

I'm trying to flip it. It's the fastest SUV ever made. It's a Jeep. Is it Grand Cherokee?

Yes. Okay. So I had the opportunity to get one, which you really can't get, you really can't get this truck. So my father's friend owns a dealership, I had the opportunity, I took it, I wrapped it, because I got crazy with the wrapping of the Charger ash that we gave away.

And I was like, I really wanted to go through that again, Except this time, I didn't want it to look like a NASCAR thing, I wanted it to look how I wanted it to look. So I got it wrapped, spent a fortune, and I'm gonna try to sell the car. I don't like the car, I drive a Tesla. After driving a Tesla, most cars feel very stupid.

Okay. And at the end of the day, it's just a Jeep. Okay, don't drive a Tesla, check. They didn't, yeah, it's really, it's like that, it's like that.

Like I put in Cigar Hustler here in the, um, in the nav and it like didn't come up. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? The shop's been there for a long time. Like it's definitely in a navigate.

Okay. So anyway, um, so we're in this brand new car and we're, um, parked on street parking and this dude, uh, uh, goes to back in, um, I don't think it's important what he's driving or who he was, but he throws, he throws the car. " So I honked the horn, and dude, just immediately without looking who I am or what, it just throws the bird out the window, and I'm like, "Oh my God," like, you know, and that really bothers me, being disrespected in front of my wife too, like that, 'cause like the way I grew up, like that's just, you don't do that shit, you know what I mean? And, um...

Oh, so what'd you do? So I put my car up on the side of him, so he was parked in, and I rolled the window down, and I was like, what was that, and my wife's like, are you fucking stupid, like of all the success and everything, you can't do it, just try, you know, so, and dude, you know, whatever, does that, this is a childish thing that I'm trying to iron out. Right, okay. I get it.

Well, then we went to, my wife and I went to, they opened up at the- Same day? No. Okay. A month later, we go to the Dr.

Phillips Center, to a concert, beautiful concert, they just put in a new hall that's like world-renowned in Dr. Phillips, it's called the Steinmetz Center, and it's like a marvel of sounds, like, this place is unbelievable, I can't describe it, it's like, all the old technology and the new technology put together. And so we go see Leon Bridges, who's like, we both love, and he's performing with the United Kingdom's Royal Philharmonic. Okay.

So it's like an epic concert. So we get to the concert, and we pull up to, the tickets came with a valet, so we pull up to valet, and as I'm getting out of the car, he's giving me the ticket, and I'm looking at the lady behind me, also driving a Tesla by the way, and she just rear-ends me in valet. And I'm just like, wow, that just happened, right? And so, like, it was an accident, so I wasn't upset.

" And then I was like, "Okay," and, you know, and she got out, she was apologetic, and so that's cool. Like, you hit me, you were apologetic, it's okay, people make mistakes. We're moving on, you're right. " Right, my bad.

" So I let the kid, of course, no problem, get in or I'm not gonna be an asshole. Right. And 45 minutes go by, we're barely, you know, halfway, and he sees an opening to his right to go through a Wawa parking lot, and he throws his car in reverse once again, comes at us. " I tapped the horn.

I'm not like laying into the horn. And he gives me the finger. And I went off. This is a thing for you.

This is a problem. Yes. I drove this guy off the road. Yeah.

I probably shouldn't say that here. Allegedly. Allegedly. He pretended to.

So through this, I shouldn't say this, but I went after him. Right. Tried to get in front of him. You got triggered.

Yeah, I got triggered. " Like, am I He's really gonna in front of my wife and kid gonna like get into a physical education and he's like kind of egging me on but I can tell he's scared too at the same time and then he goes up a one way so off the road is that and the cars were coming it was it was it was so I just like a movie now but people in the parking lot were like looking at me like dude what are you doing and I was like fuck what am I doing and so now I'm like I don't want to drive anywhere yesterday I'm pulling into this. I think we can address this issue differently. Never get in a car with Brian.

So yesterday people died. So I'm at this weird intersection where it's two lanes to turn left, and then once you turn left, and you get onto that road, it merges, and so I tried to pull ahead of this guy, and he was like not having it, to the point where he ran me into where the road kind of, there is no road anymore, now I'm in the middle of the street, so I like hit my brake, let him pass, and he gave me this like mean look, and I'm like, I don't get it, like I let people in front of me, is it me, do I have a Is it the Tesla? Could be. I mean, that's probably part of it.

I don't know. Fuck this guy and this Tesla. Right. It could be.

It's bougie motherfuckers. Right. So we gotta do a couple things. For one, you need to get to the gym.

Okay. When you're a little bit bigger, things go a little bit easier. People are like, nah, fuck that. You know what?

This isn't worth it. This isn't worth it. You eject yourself out of the car a little bit. They're like...

Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I beg your pardon. Okay.

All right. And the second thing is, you just got to stop giving a fuck. Right. I think that's really more important.

Yeah, I agree. I threw the gym in first because of shits and giggles, but you know. No, but you're right. And plus you get out that stress.

Well, you know, for me, what I usually do is I always just play a game in my mind. Like, you know, I don't know, maybe the guy's got to really take a shit or something. You know what I mean? Or like, maybe there's something else going on, you know, like whatever the case may be.

Like, you don't know what, what somebody else is going through. And nowadays, maybe he's got a gun. Maybe we should try. It's Florida, baby.

We all have guns. Who are you talking about? If you don't have one, you're the fucking minority without question. You know, I'm not even a gun guy.

And I'm like, how many fucking guns do I have? Yeah. You know, so, um, but yeah, you know, it's just like, how old are you? 43.

Man, you talk like a 20 year old sometimes. Like you're going to fucking kill somebody. Like, um, yeah, you know, just, I always, I always played in my mind that like, oh, that guy's got to be somewhere or like, there's something. What would you, what would you, What would you have done with the first guy giving you the finger in the parking?

I would have let it go. At this point in my life, I would have let it go. Me 10 years ago, I'm out of the fucking car, and I'm thinking, I could probably break his fucking windshield. Right?

So, but now, I'm just like, eh. I mean, I had a guy. Last week. I don't know.

I mean, I was, when we got my wife's car, we were driving back up, and we had a similar scenario where we were trying to merge in, and the guy didn't let us over, or I didn't let him over, something like that. I mean, I wasn't trying to fuck, I'm just going my speed. Yeah. So it's like, hey, either A, speed the fuck up and cut me off or B, slow down, right?

And he kind of lost his shit and then he brake checked me a couple of times, you know, and my wife's like, what are you gonna do? I'm like, he'll get over it. He'll be fine. You know, it's like, or if I cut somebody off, I always are like, sorry.

I do that. No, sorry, my bad. I suck. I play This Is Not My Exit on I-4 all the fucking time.

All the time. What is that? I love the name of it. You have the last lane and you, you know, it's the exit lane.

So you go to all the way down and you get off. He'll get in that lane and he starts going and then goes, oh, this is not my exit. And then he cuts back over. Right through the fucking.

He like apologizes. I'm sorry, not my exit. I'm sorry, this is my exit. I have no problem with any of these things.

If anyone cuts me off, not a big deal. But the finger part. It's the finger. Really bothered me.

And it's silly because I remember as a young man giving someone the finger, an older person. And the guy lost his shit. Right. And I was like, over the finger?

Right. And now here I am getting crazy over the finger. Let's let it the fuck go, man. This shit's too.

Could be a middle-aged thing too. Getting older. We got so many more important fights to do. You know what I mean?

It's so much better when you channel all that energy onto one or two particular things. Just skull-fucking the one individual is so much better than addressing the guy with the- Jesus Christ. Take somebody at random? No.

Oh. No. I have a list. You ever see Steve Buscemi in Billy Madison or whatever?

" Crosses him off, and Steve Buscemi crosses his name off the list and puts lipstick all over his face. Yeah, so I totally get it. I get it. I get it.

You know? I get it. Yeah, so that's been happening. That's been happening.

That's been happening. Yes. You got to let it go. Local fry in this mic.

That's nice. Like I have a pill problem. That's how I used to talk when I had pill problems. " I could tell by the tone of your voice.

Yes, I can hear it. Damn you. You've got a problem. But I drive better.

I don't flip out when people throw me the finger. " Like, whatever. Fuck it, you know? All right, so we tapped very gently before we started this podcast on TPE.

And I saw your dear friend, your very close friend, Lou Liga there, who doesn't respond to my emails, by the way, so fuck him. Oh, really? He's weird like that sometimes, yeah. Well, what kind of email are you sending?

Big pics? Is it all big pics? Like, I'll let him know about SBC 20 or something like that. He's on that list.

And he doesn't respond? Or text or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really?

Yeah. I think Lou likes a personal touch. He doesn't want to group mail or something. Oh, yeah, you gotta call him personally.

I don't have that kind of time, man. Neither do I, but you make the time. You call Ronnie, I think Lou wants a phone call, too. Because you want to know why?

Because I, fucking Ronnie is amazing. Like Ronnie is just next level, you know. Lou is not amazing, I can attest to that. Lou is just, he's moderately okay.

He's moderately okay. Uh, no, he's just fucking around, but you know, um, but the cigars are going to sell already. We're going to get Lou in here. Next time he comes up.

He's threatened a couple of times. He's like, "Oh, I come down all the time. I come in once a month. " Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but like you, he said that you'll never go to a convention ever again. -No, I don't think so. -Why not? I want to know why.

-When I went to TPE, I came back and I was very bitter for like six months, three months, whatever. -Why? -It took me a few months to get over it. -Okay.

-I like to be as transparent as possible, but I don't want to upset anyone. -Okay. -Oh, come on! -One of the things about TPE that really bothered me was you go there as a cigar person, And then you get there, and we have about maybe a quarter of the floor.

No way, like 5% of the floor. So we have 10% of the floor. Our industry looks like it's in shambles, to a degree, although I heard this year was a little better. Okay, but I mean, our industry is in shambles, but move on.

Um, and, and then you look over to your right and it's all these young dudes with hot chicks everywhere and they're all like young and healthy and like look like they're in a thriving industry. Okay. And, and it just kind of left me with this, like, like what, what the fuck? What is that?

Like what's happening here? Like, why am I trying? I've been trying so hard to appease people in this industry that looks like it's fucking dead. I'm just going to talk openly.

No, no, no, go ahead. It looks like it's fucking dead. Why have I been trying to get this guy to call me back? Fuck that.

We got our whole new thing going on. Let's move forward in a whole different direction. Right. That was the way that I left.

Okay. TPE. Yeah. But you're missing the point.

Okay. I'm sure I am. So like the TPE, like, listen, when it comes to conventions or anything like that, what matters is like you get to fucking hang out with like, let's say fucking 40 retailers that support Provada are there. Right.

And you're just kind of roaming around, checking things out, smoking cigars, whatever. Yeah. They're like, fuck, I got to talk to Brian. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like that's what's. They come to my house, the ones that support me though. They come on, we do videos on them and you know.

Sometimes, but like, okay, so, but like, you gotta have, you think I would know what that is. Let's say, let's say rough numbers. You have two, 250 to 300 accounts. And I don't know who me.

Yeah. Just, I don't know. Clark knows that. All right.

So let's say you have 250 to 300 accounts, 485. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Whatever. But only Clark knows. Let's say you have speculating on 485 accounts, whatever. Right.

Oh, you're talking about the accounts, like the LCA accounts. Yeah. Like you get, like, yeah, I did. That was the positive part.

You're right. I got to hang out with him. We got drunk at the party at the end of the night. Right.

There you go. So you get to meet with those dudes. That's what's important. I understand the perspective and how it kind of fucking shatters you when you see 80% of the floor, 90% of the floor with this blue fucking carpet.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But who gives a fuck about that? Let them flip you the bird.

It's fine. No, it wasn't like there was animosity towards them. I feel like it created animosity towards my own industry and I didn't want that. Yeah, but who gives a fuck?

Fuck 'em. Like, the whole purpose- Do a big shiny booth like they do and have the pretty girls in your thing. No, we don't need that shit either, dude. Fuck that.

Well, you know, what's, even I said to him, like, look, we're gonna go, we're gonna fucking, I'll order some stuff from some people or whatever, but that's not really why I'm here. I'm here just to kind of bullshit with everybody and see everybody, you know? I see what you're saying. And like, it's an opportunity where everybody's kind of there, right?

Now, obviously, PCA is the right animal, right? 'Cause it's based solely on cigars, you know? But I'm going to take both opportunities to hang out with people without question. How do you feel about PCA?

I mean, they got some shit to work out. You know, they did send me a feedback thing, which was interesting today. I got one too. Yeah, did you answer it?

No, I haven't yet. Yeah, so they want to know where you think it should be, and what month do you think it should be? How'd you feel about the, if you're not here, you don't matter? Forget about who said it, just that being a sentiment.

That was fucking stupid. That was stupid. And the reason why I say that is because, you know, - But it's like, does Elon Musk go to gas-powered car conventions? That's how I feel, like, you understand what I'm saying, like, that's how I feel, I'm just gonna be honest and open and not give a fuck, because that's what I've done up to this point, and it serves me well, everyone knows that when you're a member of my club, or if you even buy one cigar from us, like, you have an open invitation to communicate with us, give us your feedback, like, I'm for the people.

Am I, you know, a certain way? Sure. I don't know, you know, whatever. I just, I like, I don't want to come across like an asshole, but I'm just going to be completely honest.

That's how I felt. I felt like I'm in the EV business and everyone else there was in the gas powered car business. Well, if everybody that bought EVs were at that fucking convention, it would make sense for him to show, right? Right.

But some of them are. And that's the other thing is I'm totally, even in this conversation, having a hard time thinking about the fact that you're actually supposed to go there. They're going to meet shops, because I'm not a brand. Well, it's not, yeah, but it's not, it's just, fuck, I guess it is the kind of meet shops, but it's more the fucking, just the camaraderie and the fucking interact, you know, like, 'cause I guarantee you, you know, like, no matter, the perception of you is going to be different from your videos than from fucking meeting you in person, right?

Now, people could like your videos and think you're a cool dude, but those people that like your videos and think you're a cool dude, they're gonna fucking love you when they meet you in person, right? So, and you know, again, it's to each your own, whatever your opinion is, you want to say, fuck that. And I'm like, oh, and you don't go, you know, but I see the potential and the reason for going like, you know, like fucking, I mean, Ed Reed was just hanging out. I know you don't know sports, but he was just there.

It was fucking awesome. Like I saw the milkman. Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Waller was a tight end fucking for Oakland or not the Vegas Raiders. No, no longer Oakland, you know, Raiders. Wow. You know what I mean?

Like it was just cool. Like, you know, you can see or Adrian Palmer. Oh, you fucked that up. He crushed it.

Oh, and he answered it. Mike, what do you think of this? It's good. It's really good.

No, no, the band. Oh, I like the band. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta give you credit for your marketing, man.

Like, this is nice, dude. Right. It's clean, you know, it's wine stock, it's, you know, and it's to the point. I suck at building my own shit, man.

Like, that's always something that, it's always been my weakest point. " And I'm like, I guess I'm not. I got you. Jokes on you.

Ha ha ha. That's where I thrive. Yeah. That's where I thrive.

I love this shit. I love the creative part of it. And I also have like three or four creative people on staff, you know. It's nice to have a team.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But, you know, I think you should consider going to PCA, you know. If anything, just to bullshit with people, you know. I mean, you fucking come hang out with me all the time, I don't give a shit, you know.

But you have to, I can only take Lou in certain doses. So it's, we'll say if he's with you, if he's with you, I'll set timer. Right. I'm like, you know, 20 minutes.

And when he hears the beeping, I can't wait till he watches this. He'll be like, you motherfucker. That's right. You don't return the guy's emails.

You don't get back to me. I try to talk to him about that. Just tell me no. You can just tell me no.

Hey man, I'm good. All right, cool. How are you? Like, you know, like that's the next thing.

Like, how are things going? He doesn't even do that with me. Dude, fucking check in. Like, I fucking legitimately just reached out to you just to check, "Hey man, what's going on?

How are you? How are you doing? Like, I haven't seen you in a couple months. " Like, humanity.

It's this weird thing. I know that people aren't fucking familiar with it. Well, there's not a lot of people that do that, though. There's not a lot of relationships, you know, when you say, "No, no, it's not for me.

" Well, yeah, I mean, the fact of the matter is that too many people talk at you and don't listen to anything that you have to fucking say. Right. I mean, more often than not. I actually give a shit about what people have to say.

You know, and I'm sure you do too. Right? And that's what makes you different. Yeah.

So. Lou, though. Lou doesn't fucking care. He doesn't give a shit.

He doesn't give a shit. He built the whole brand off of not giving a shit. Jesus, Lou. That should be his next cigar.

Don't give a shit. What's his sticker? The fish? No, hate Lou Liga.

I hate Lou Liga. I'm like, dude, why would you make stickers that say that? I would say that. That's your brand?

Do people hate you? You hate Luliga? I don't necessarily hate Luliga. I mean, he's okay.

I want hashtag Luliga's okay. Let me respect that. That's not polarizing, Luliga. So what's, okay, so let's go back to this top 25 list.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sucked. I don't even know who's on it. It sucked because I don't even care anymore.

It's like, what's kind of remarkable is really how it's gone. You know, we always, like I would always talk about what I thought the best cigars were And you know what? We haven't even been addressing it anymore because it's just so many people do it. We probably just let it go this year.

I didn't even do one for Pravado, but our best ones. Yeah, like what the fuck? Who gives a shit? Best one is the next one.

The best, right, exactly. And you know, hey, what you love, you love. It's like, what about the half-wheel top 25 list? The Consensus or whatever?

No, just the straight list. One of your cigars showed up on the list. Yeah, it was on there. It was on the half-wheel.

Look at that. I couldn't believe some of the cigars that were on that list. The Trail Mix. Yeah, the Trail Mix.

The Trail Mix is really good. it's my favorite that you make really yep i can't believe how many people love that cigar yeah you know i did that with the guy from um uh damn what's the name of that brand oh it escapes me um the fuck uh bone adventure uh something like that and and like i wrote the guy when when they got gave it like a 92 or 93 or something i was like hey isn't this great he was like i don't give a shit right there is over it we should do we should do another cigar to go i can barely Because I don't think reviews fucking sell anything. I don't know. I don't think, I mean, at this point in the game, I'm comfortable saying that I don't really think they fucking do anything.

There's so many people that do them. They don't move the needle. You know the last one that I feel like it sold cigars on was, I think it was two years ago, CA's top 25, the aging room? Yeah.

That fucking thing sold. I saw it at every dude's house I went to. That was longer than that. That was like three or four years ago, right?

I saw that at every dude's house I went to. They had a box of that. I'll tell you, the last one that hit, that continues to hit, is the Andalusian Bowl. I was about to say that, yeah.

We can't keep that even now when it comes out. LFD's Andalusian Bowl. Am I crazy? I've had two of them.

I thought it was a shit cigar. I think that LFD makes a lot of better cigars than that one. Yeah, for sure. I was definitely surprised when it became number one, but I will happily carry them and sell the shit out of them.

Sell them out every time they come in. People love that. They go nuts. They still ration the boxes when you get them.

Yeah, I can't, you know, and I'm- You can't get more than like four or five. So like, that's the difference, right? Like, you know, as a retailer, I don't, you know, part of me, as I've developed, like, you know, when I had this righteous of like, this is the best stuff to smoke, I will always have, this is the best stuff to smoke, but I'll still have the other shit too. Dude, Skip Martin reached out to me personally after I did your podcast.

Did he? Oh, that was worth the whole thing. That was the cost of admission, yeah. I was like, wow, that was really cool.

Skip just wrote me. He's a good dude. He's a good guy. What is your favorite Romacraft cigar?

Oh man, depends upon what time of the day. Because for me, I'll smoke the Neanderthal, the Intemperance DC Brotherly Kindness every morning. Like that's my cigar that I smoke every morning. And then I usually smoke either the Cro-Mag Anthropologie or Cranium midday, and then I end with the Neanderthal HN.

However, the Grand Perfecto... Wow, you know that lineup. Yeah, yeah I do. The Neanderthal Grand Perfecto is fucking money.

The Black Irish is one of the better cigars I've smoked. Every time I smoke it, I'm like, I don't know what I like about this, but I love this cigar. Well, then just smoke the Cro-Mag, the EMH Robusto, and the Fomorian at the same time. And then the other one, the Sabertooth, you know, I'm a limited edition guy.

I get a little crazy about that, yeah, yeah, yeah, and he really rations those things. Yeah, he doesn't produce a lot of them. So, like, the Whiskey Rebellion, they made, like, this thing called the Pensatucky, which is a Lonsdale. That shit's money, too.

Really good. I mean, like, I love everything that they make, right? That's why I wanted to go work with them because they fucking buy really good tobacco, right? So, like, even I consider myself a novice when it comes to blending or anything like that.

Like, it's hard to really fucking make something bad. With good tobacco. Right. He won't let a bad cigar go out.

Right. And then when, you know, like, the first cigar I made was terrible, right? But I knew what, you know, he showed me what I did wrong. And we corrected that, and I had a good cigar by the end of the day, right?

It's like, okay, so, yeah man, good tobacco makes all the difference. I'm gonna get you guys sponsored by like, Rabid Air, one of these. Yeah, this is bad. Yeah, well, it's not normally three of us smoking at one time.

And there's no, it's cool outside, so there's no. Greg was smoking earlier in here. Yeah, I like this. As soon as he gets recorded, Lou's gonna freeze up.

Just loses all charisma and fucking. Fucking hate Lou Liga. Lou Liga is okay. Have you been to his lounge in Philly?

Mm-mm. Fucking nice. It's beautiful. Last time I saw him was when he was in Delaware.

He was still at the other place, yeah. Why don't we hit this little fan thing? I couldn't believe he was an employee of someone. He called me and told me he wasn't there, and I was like, yeah, no shit, who the fuck can employ you?

How often does he come down? Probably once every two, three months. No shit. Yeah.

I think he said once a month. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, he's Lou, he likes to know what he's at, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a key to his house.

I gotta tell you, we get along so well, it's crazy. He's a good guy. Well, he comes from like a similar, I grew up with a lot of Puerto Ricans in Allentown, Pennsylvania, which is, you know, an hour up the road from Philly, and just, he just comes from a similar, like, he understands certain things, like when I talk, like, it's like, it's like a little bit of nostalgia for me. I'm going to hit the ghetto fan real quick Do you see the remotes in there by the printer?

You should give them a view of this This is the worst exhaust Our high tech exhaust system It does I don't want to spoil Mike You don't want me to breathe This is nice Look it's already clear I can see you - It's amazing. - Ah, it's still smoking that way. - Uh, your smoke's actually going right that way. - So, yeah.

- Fucking, fucking low. - Uh, back to Half Wheel's top 25. - Yes. - What was number one?

- Something crazy. Something that you would never have predicted. You never saw coming. - They're maturing as a company, Half Wheel.

Like they've, it's changed. Not in a bad way or a good way, just, it's just changed. I have a lot of respect for those guys. At least their opinions are unbiased.

Can we pause this real quick? We're going to take a break real fast. All right. We'll be right back.

All right. We're back with Brian Descend from Limited Cigar Association, episode 212. So what was number one? I'm looking here.

Hurry it up, Mike. It's giving me the first My Father Humidor Deluxe. That was it. Okay, that's crazy.

Is that a cigar? That's crazy. Let's stop that. Let's move on to number two.

What was number two? The rest of the thing is on. Tell me about a cigar I can get. It's all black.

The rest of it's all black. It's this high powered internet that we have. Yeah, it's a new high powered internet. So, I mean, look, I got to give them, you know, that was their own opinion that wasn't fucking based on any type of promotions or sponsorships or anything like that.

You know, some of the shit that they have done for their number ones, they did like the Hoya that was an event cigar or some shit. I'm like, damn, that's out of nowhere. I got to give those guys credit for that. You know, every time I sit down with them, they're real.

" In like, what way? I don't know, he'll just say something to irritate me, you know, just to kind of break balls, yeah. Really? Interesting.

Yeah. I didn't think, I've always just been told that he's just very monotone, like doesn't really talk to anyone. Oh, fuck no, I get the full, I get full on Charlie. Really?

He was very chatty to TBE, like I said, that was the first time I've had any conversations with him. No, I mean like, you know. It's just like a nod as you pass. And he's like a fucking sea of data, you know, like.

Oh my good Lord, I love that. Yeah, he knows a ton of shit. It was a ton of shit. Dude, I'm a Half Wheel fan from the beginning.

Half Wheel's part of the reason why I'm into cigars. Yeah, I mean, they're the media source that you look towards, right? Yeah. Well, that's the thing.

They're not, though. They're the media source for the industry. Right. So they're the billboard magazine of our industry.

Right, right. Exactly. 100%. 100%.

So who's the Rolling Stone? Who's Rolling Stone now? There is none. There is no Rolling Stones.

No, we need a Rolling Stones. We do need a Rolling Stones. So you don't know who the Half-Wheel No. 2 is?

No, the rest of this is black, unless you want to try it on your part. Half-Wheel No. 2. I can tell you the number ones for the last four years, as far as I can get.

Half-Wheel Top 25. Last year was the Karloff, the Tatuaje Karloff. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Which I smoked and I did not love and I'm a big Tatuaje guy.

But I heard that they re-released them this year, a year aged. Opus X, Forbidden 13, De Sios De Amor. That's crazy, too. And it's hard to get.

Let's see. What was three? What was three? It was three.

Tatuaje T110 Capa Especial. It's a good cigar. High powered little guy. Yep.

We'll have a good little Rothschild that'll knock you. And then Hoya hits top five. Hoya de Nicaragua Dos Cientos. I guess I gotta start smoking more Hoya.

You know, what's kind of crazy, and then Cuella Dorsey, which is a Cuban. You know, Hoya does have some unique flavors when you get them, right? So, but like, it's hard to deviate. So when they get, I feel like when they make some lighter blends, they're a home run.

Well, their Connecticut's are definitely home run. Because they have some filler in there that changes it dramatically, you know? And for whatever reason, you don't taste that on many other cigars. Did you get to smoke, did either of you get to smoke the Vintage Reserve LCA?

No, yeah, we did smoke that, it was very good. Yeah, yeah, well, I'm enjoying that a lot. Yeah, unless they move incredibly fast, we usually get two for the show. Yeah, so generally what we like to do is offer it to everybody, and if they're gone, they're gone, because I would, even with SBC 20, like even for my retailers, if they want them.

How did this Cavalier sell? It did okay, like, so, but I think that that's going to be crossed between it, the month that it kind of dropped, you know what I mean? So, we sold through a decent amount of them, but I think that you release those boxes at a good time, because, you know, I also want to make sure that the guys that come in here have the opportunity to get that stuff too. Yeah.

" Wow. Because it's faster for them, they know that they're going to get them. The display boxes, do you think they'll make a difference? " Right, we grab a different box, tear the lid off.

Got it. Yeah. So now that there's like a designated area for those, you know, I haven't put them out on the shelf yet because I wanted to see how things went online and then I have to adjust accordingly. Got it.

So they'll come out this week in the shop. Very cool. So yeah. We covered a lot of shit so far.

You want to jump to the news? Yeah, we got an hour. You have anything else to add? Uh, I don't know.

Let's hear what the news is and all that. Yeah, yeah. Rob and Quiver's Commentarium. Oh, nice.

Yeah, we're keeping you for the news this time. Because you're an opinionated motherfucker. From the four corners of the world, all the cigar industry news you could possibly need. The Cigar Hustler Podcast Report with Mike Toon.

FDA applied to be the new head of the Center for Tobacco Products. You can apply for the job. Oh, it's open. It's open, yes.

S. Food and Drug Administration has began accepting applications for those interested in becoming the agency's new director of FDA Center for Tobacco Products, or the CTP. Maybe something you could do in your free time, Brian. The wheels are already turning.

Let's see, Mitch Zeller, who has been CTP since March 2013, will retire this April. The agency is looking for a replacement. You can only destroy it if you infiltrate it, you know what I mean? From the inside, that's the best way to do it, from the inside, yes.

They just gotta fucking mess up everything, you know? Like, I don't know what's going on. That's what the guy did with the post office, right? Yeah.

He was like, fuck, I'm gonna hear what he was like, obvious about it, I'm just gonna destroy this thing. Drive it right into the ground. I know how to make it better, yeah, but what I'm thinking is, well, we slow things down a little bit. Whoever selected for the role will take over in another transformation time for CTP.

Zeller's tenure saw him oversee the introduction, yeah, the introduction of the deeming regulation 2016, the first major new policy enacted under CTP, and the first time the agency regulated cigars and e-cigarettes. Now FDA has announced its plans to ban the sale of menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars, a contentious fight that the new CTP director will be tasked with leading. Nobody wants to apply? Applicants have until February 25th of 2022 to submit their application for this job.

So you got to jump right on it, guys. Okay, we'll get right on it. All right, Diesel Sundae Gravy Rosmarino arrives. Have you met Justin Andrews?

No, who's that? I've met him at TPE. Who is he? He's the guy that holds the camera projector on you.

He handles diesel cigars. Oh, and Matt Booth too now. He's an avid photographer. He handles?

I thought that's a general product. It is. He works for general. He's the guy.

He's the head dude. He handles the production and all that stuff. Super nice guy. We call him every week on the show.

Some of them, I mean, it's mixed. It's mixed. Like, I gotta tell you, some of those Sunday gravies have been hit. That first one flew out of here.

Yeah. It's a little slower. AJ doesn't make bad cigars. Yeah.

It makes a big difference. Yeah. Again, it goes back to the tobacco. Yeah.

Right? For sure. Third, Diesel Sunday Gravy. But the problem is it's, you know, it's Justin Andrews.

99, which is... 99? Five bucks. What are they doing over there?

That's why it sells well. Yeah. No shit. Right.

99. How are they making any money? And if you buy the packs, we never break them down. Wow.

Yeah, they come prepackaged in tens? Tens? Tens. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

He does some crazy shit. Like the first thing that he released, he did like this bar giveaway thing. You remember that? Yeah, the big wooden bar.

Sweetie won that. Big deal. Beautiful bar. Sat out front for almost two months.

Yeah, the only problem with that is he really kind of set a precedence of, hey, I gave away this gigantic bar. So then, you know, you do another diesel event, they're like, well, is there going to be a bar? Wow. Yeah, because the next one, I think we're lighters and cutters.

Yeah, they're like, ah, fuck this. Fuck that. That's a volume business there, huh? Yeah, big time.

Let's see, when AJ and I develop blends from Sunday Gravy Series, we bring our opinions to the table and we go head to head on which tobaccos are going to use, said Justin Andrews, new business development manager for STG, North America Branded, and rest of the world divisions in a press release. Ultimately, AJ wins this because he's AJ. I was just, I was thinking, and I was holding back from saying, like, there's that, like, as many of these guys think that they're, like, influencing. Oh, we should do the, like, at the end of the day, AJ makes that cigar.

Well, it goes back to the same thing, and it's the same thing fucking over and over and over again. If you have good tobacco, you're going to make a good cigar, right? It's just that simple. The next Sunday gravy release will be announced in April.

Excellent. Looking forward to it. Jay, London releases Gold Series Pyramids to Luxury Cigar Club. Ooh.

The competitive fucker. Jay London Cigars has created a new Vitolans Gold Series for Luxury Cigar Club and its Preferred Retail Partner Network. It's good, good, um, preferred, give me a break, there's a good cigar. Whoever would buy it.

I haven't had that cigar, but the Jay London Gold in Connecticut is just, they make good stuff. That's Henderson. Right. Is there a lot of problem with people thinking luxury and limited?

I know that you had that. Didn't you have like a mix-up where luxury and privada, like you guys, you did something where you said, "Hey, we're not related, we're not the same," or something like that? Oh my gosh, am I forgetting something? I think...

Oh, the Luxury Cigar Club. Yeah. And your limited cigar association. So there is a little bit of, I would imagine, confusion.

I don't know. I don't know. I vaguely remember seeing a post where somebody was crisscrossing the two of you. Or maybe it was somebody else, but they're good guys.

You know, they're good dudes. I'm sure they are. Yeah. You know, they never give me a hard time.

They're fucking, you know, they respond to my texts. Right. Unlike some people in this industry. 99 to $19.

We cover everything here. Wow, that is a broad spectrum. Well, you know... Do you know Chris Doyle?

Uh... From Doylestown? No, that's the guy of Luxury Cigar Club. I don't know if I know Chris.

He's making 7,000 cigars ever produced for the run, and they will be shipping to retailers late next week. I talk with Ben. Ben's a good dude. But, you know...

Hey, look, you know, you gotta... Also, I do want to say this, in the consensus, Charlie wrote a nice piece about us. Oh, did he? Yeah, and he was basically like, come on, we can't put, like, just because Pravada has this word cigar club, and then we do have a cigar, like, we're in our own situation, you know, so I don't ever get upset about any cigar club or anything like that, like, that's great, good for them.

Yeah, more exposure. Yeah, for sure. I feel like I get more exposure about a brand when it's in, you know, like a big, like a cigar club to some, you know, but like, I'm also a big believer of like, look, don't discount my shit. Cause here's what's going to happen.

If you fuck me, I'm just not going to call you anymore. I'm not going to have this off the list, right? I'm not going to have this argument like, Hey, what are you doing? I'm like, okay, good.

Good for you. You made some money. You made depleted money. Cause I didn't give you a discount and, um, and it's over.

Right. But we're moving on. We've parted ways now. Right, yeah.

See, I've never, I've always had this huge disconnect. And I think that's been part of the like, you know, as a newcomer to the industry where there's been a little bit of animosity because people that were seasoned people in this industry hear Cigar of the Month Club and they're like, discount. Right. And that was never my thing.

Yeah, you know, it just, I mean, for one thing to, you know, if you offer a Month Club, I get that your margins are gonna be different, right? Right. But you're not saying, hey, if you come back and, you know, you really like the cigar, you can buy this box for 30 percent off. It's like, whoa.

No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no.

That doesn't work. If you like the cigar, go buy it. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Well, you know, people do that in the LCA. Right. Where they discount.

I'm like, what? The margins aren't here. Guys, we're trying to help you make money. What are you doing?

You're taking money out of your own pocket now. Right. Because you're not hurting me. Right.

Right. Your price. That's what I'm saying. I mean, I don't think people realize, I think people think that like everyone's making a fucking fortune off of cigars.

They're not, it's not a huge margin. You know how you make a small fortune in the cigar industry? I'm sure you've heard this. What?

Start with a big fortune. So true, man. It's fucking crazy. It's a tough industry.

So, but you know, at $19 a cigar, that probably speeds things up a little bit. Yeah, you know, I guess. In June 2016. You need to.

You need to have some high-end shit. Jonathan has a high-end clientele. Like, a lot of his stuff is sold to, like, he has, like, collectors and stuff. Right.

He goes to, like, car clubs and, like, you know, people that we don't... Jonathan... The guy who owns Jay London. Oh, okay.

The Jay in Jay London? Yeah. The cool dude. The Jay.

Of course. So, yeah. I mean, you sell a $19 cigar to that clientele, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. For sure. They're like, no, fuck you, fuck out of here! Six is only five.

Five bucks. 99. 99. Jesus Christ, how are they making, I don't understand, I couldn't do that.

Right. We do Farm Roll, but that's a whole different ballgame. There's no bands, no boxes, you know, once you start, you know, doing all that, wow, it's a lot. Mm-hmm.

In June 2016, Robocraft Tobac released a new European-exclusive creation dubbed the Wunderlust that included four different Vitolas, according to co-owner Skip Martin. The name of the cigar is a combination of the idea behind Wunderlust and the German culture used of the word and prefix Wunder. Additionally, Vitolas followed over the years, including a release named after Martin's youngest daughter, the Fiorella in 2019, and some packaged in samplers. However, the company has a major announcement back in March.

That's her name? Fiorella. That's cool. Yes.

When it shared its entire release calendar for the year, including the calendar, were not only details of September's release of the four original Wanderlust sizes, the Grand Perfecto debuted in 2020, but also a, also a four original, wait, what is this? Also a four, hmm, half by 60 petite gordo named PG Country. According to Aroma Craft Tobac, 250 boxes of each Vitola were made available to European retailers, coinciding with the Inter Tobac trade fair that took place in Dortmund, Germany. Mm-hmm.

So, they're announcing that the PG country is coming out, but we're not going to see it here, though. It'll be out in Europe. It'll be out in Europe. We can get it at the office, maybe.

Yeah, we can get it tomorrow. That's cool. I want one. I'll try and get it.

Thanks. The PG County is made up of a Brazilian modafina wrapper, covered a binder from Indonesia, and an undisclosed filler blend. MSRP is set at 920 pounds, I guess. Each about...

Not Euros? Maybe it's Euros. Is it like an E with some slices on it? Yeah, yeah, the Euros.

Euros, okay. Now, 1050 packaging boxes of 20, each contains two sealed bundles of 10, as seen above, with a total of 250 boxes released. According to Martin, the PG in the name PG County has two meanings, not only does it designate the Vitola as a Petit Gordo, but also refers to the Prince George County, Maryland, a place where one of the company's employees is from. Who is that?

Which one? Maryland? Yeah. That's lightweight heavy, baby.

Is that lightweight heavy? Yeah, 100%. All right, and the final story, Michael. Yes.

I kept it short because I knew we were going to have a whole lot of time. Austin's on our boil notice that could last a few days. I saw that. We're leaving for Austin tomorrow.

Yeah, we're going to go. We're going to go to Roma Craft. Yeah. For the next three days.

Nice. It was going to be two, but Skip's like... The entire city of Austin's on our boil water notice with Austin water representatives estimating that it will continue to be in effect for a few days according to the NewsNation local affiliate. Wait, what's happening there?

They're on a boil water notice. What does that mean? That means... Bacteria in the water.

Oh, shit. Emergency water restrictions mean residents are also being asked to conserve water. This is because a water treatment plant in Austin is out of service due to an internal treatment process. Wow.

We started putting the poop water in them. Somebody hit the wrong button. High turbidity. Which means a lot of poop.

Keep Austin flowing. Underboiled roses, people are told to use bottled water, to boil tap water, to drink, and think Skip is bathing in like Pellegrino. Yeah, of course. He likes Italian stuff.

It's coming out of the faucets, not in his house. How do I get Pellegrino linked in here? I don't want to be attached. Lightweight heavy, can you hook this up please?

Hey Sean, I need you to call Pellegrino and work this out. Work this out. I want the bubbles. What's even funnier is we'll probably walk in and be hearing our podcast as we fucking...

There we go. It'll be in the car when they pick us up. Let's see... You're his Lulega.

I am. You're his Lulega. That's amazing. I'm just way more effective than Lulega, that's the difference.

It's quite possible. Yeah. It's true. You can wash your hands in, you can bathe and shower, just do not swallow the water.

Just don't swallow. Wow. Keep that in mind over there. No, nothing on the teeth.

Keep your mouth shut. Just tape. Oh, it's just like when I visit Esteli, you know, same shit. Right.

That's amazing. As the Austin Water Director Greg Mazzario said, "The boil notice is connected to the winter storm that swept through Central Texas on Thursday. " What did that happen? Like, I don't know, so it got cold, so all of a sudden there's bacteria in the water?

It probably froze and a line snapped or something, you know, or it froze and overflowed and some of the poop ran into the drink. Oh, there's poop now! There's poop in the water! Stop it.

We're all going to be very safe as long as we use bottled boiled water, Austin said on its website. This is Austin's water's first boiled water notice since February of last year. Oh. So every February.

We still haven't fixed this. That was the last, that was that big snowstorm. Right, I'm here for, I'm the government, I'm here to help. Like, well, but we didn't solve the problem last year.

Fuggers? The Lyft Notice official said that the water treatment plant needs to come back online and operate under normal plant treatment levels. Water sampling results have to reveal no water quality issues. Have you ever been to Austin?

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Don't go.

He's gonna drink the water. I was there once. I went to that famous movie theater that they have there. Oh, yeah?

It was really cool. You know, it's one of those places that's beautiful, but there's like this "Keep Austin Weird" movement. Yeah. Oh, it's changed a lot, though, in the last few years.

The last few years. There's a fuck ton of homeless people. Yeah. Well, a lot of people from LA moved there during COVID.

I've seen like two-story homeless levels under the fucking... Oh, nice. Yeah. Wow.

They have like an upstairs-downstairs. It's lovely. Yeah. Nice.

How many square feet is that? Great food. They do have a great barbecue. Skip put a picture from somewhere I ate the other day.

It looked great. Yeah. It was fried chicken, greens. Yeah, he usually does.

It looked delicious. We would like to go there, Skip. Or wherever you want to go. I don't imagine he eats in bad places.

Yeah, no. But it's just, you know, it's usually like a one-meal type of a thing. He doesn't eat like- It's just one picture. I figure he still has a three.

You know, he wakes up, it's like two o'clock, two o'clock. Two o'clock, yeah. Has lunch and dinner and breakfast all the same time. Yeah, all the same, where are we going?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one meal and that's it. Huh. Maybe some chocolate later.

Oh, yeah, with the beer and the coffee. I'm looking for a coffee at the office. Lightweight heavy. You should go.

Kate Heavy's Coffee is white. I want that. Yeah. It's got to be just cream.

It's just cream. It's all cream. You should go, man. You should go check out the office and stuff.

In Austin? Yeah. That'd be cool. Yeah, they have a hell of a fucking setup.

Nice. And, you know, the team is usually there. Skips in and out. He goes every few months and leaves.

But Michael's usually there and then you get to meet the rest of the squad and stuff. Cool. I mean, the way that they develop and what they kind of produce is very unique. Very unique.

Very unique. Yes. All right. Well, hey, thank you very much for coming on, dude.

It's good to hear from you. Thank you very much for the cigars. These are on me. I appreciate that.

What I'll do is I'll put some of those online, but in like a sampler pack with some of the other things, you know, so that everything gets its fair attention, you know, and then we'll put them in the store too. Great. Enjoy. Hell yeah, man.

Thank you so much, dude. No, I'm proud to be able to do it for you. Do you have a listener of the week? I don't.

You know what the listener of the week is? Do you have one? Well, I was gonna say Lou Liga. It's Lou Liga.

I was gonna say the listener of the week is the guy who fucking shit all over us on the last time we were on. He's like, you, you know, they fucking, you know, what happened? You know, your guys are very devoted. Why?

Very, very devoted. Like, you're saving those podcasts, you're saving, usually like, okay. Someone wrote that. Yeah, some shit.

Wow. He came after us for two or three different episodes. Oh, he trolled us for a couple? Yeah, and then he sort of fade away.

Sorry. Oh, no, no, no, it was fine. Hey, thank you. We enjoy that stuff.

Look, I need the haters. Like, the haters, they make me feel good. I'm like, okay, good, we're reaching out to more people. Somebody's listening.

Yeah, yeah, that happens. You get a hundred and one doesn't like you. Yeah. The guy told me that, you know, you haven't made it in life until someone sues you.

So like, I'm, I'm bucking for that next, you know. Oh, I got another cease and desist. Oh, that's what I'm saying. I got another cease and desist from Chrysler for the Charger.

I couldn't believe it. Oh, really? How does that work? I was like, really?

Not from the football team or something? I gave, I gave away a dodge and they're like, yeah, we just don't want to be associated. I was like, okay, no problem. They didn't like threaten like for money or anything.

Right, but like it's done. It's already, so what do you, I'm like, they send it. Maybe they did that on purpose. Maybe they waited until the car was given away because it was literally like a week after we gave the car away, which went out to a woman.

I want to tell you this story. She started smoking cigars six months ago to win this car for her husband. Oh, wow. No shit.

Yes. That is a fact. That is awesome. Now she hangs out at her local LCA Cigar Launch.

I forget the name of it. It's in Kentucky. It's in Kentucky. She was amazing.

We had people, I thought, that were going to win this thing that like- Tons of entries. Yeah, and she just crushed it. She was just quiet the whole time. Right place, right time.

Yeah. It's weird how that shit works out sometimes, dude. Bro, I couldn't believe it. Like, that's her story.

What a great story for the winner, you know? Yeah, right. And her husband was thrilled. Fuck yeah!

Yeah. I wanted you to say, "Hey, listen, we're just gonna be here. He's using this fucking charger. " You know what?

We do a customer appreciation thing every year at Christmas. The last two years, the people that won, Weren't really regulars. Yeah. The lady last year, they got the TV, and then the guy this year came in with somebody else.

It's weird how that works out sometimes. Yeah, the guy was not a big... He was in and out of town, he was somebody else's friend. Yeah, so he takes on a 70-inch TV, like, good luck getting that on the plane.

Well, no, this year it was that huge humidor from Arturo Fuente. Oh, yeah, we did like the Fuente... Yeah, you're right. The giant coffin-sized humidor with the secret drawer in the back.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, but you know what's funny is like, when we get... It's the gun drawer. Exactly.

Well, only if it's in Florida. but uh or texas or texas it's in your car too so um even with the tv like with the the guy was when something happened where he was upset or some shit like that and he like an entry didn't happen and like he was like i'm never coming oh yeah the tv this year he was upset it's not worth it to do giveaways yeah i don't know i mean i so the guy was pissed off right the guy won the guy won and he's like hey you know what i don't know why i lost my shit i'm really sorry i'm like that's cool man you know well let's fucking oh you had to spend a certain amount of money to get a ticket yeah and he was close but he didn't hit it but he didn't hit it so right they didn't give it to him or no he said he spent a hundred dollars over the last three days i mean but we're i'm talking about like a tv i'm not talking about a fucking charger you know what i mean like we're not at that level yes there's there's a there's a big difference there you know what i mean like it's yeah it's a tv right you know what i mean it's if i'll throw it off the fucking balcony out back we're not driving the charger off a cliff you know it's like that's a great car too i miss it I was like, oh, it looked great. Yeah, that's why I got the track. No, no, no, it's gas powered.

No, no, you don't get to like that. Dodge makes a good product. I do. I like it.

My car's 110 years old. Told him we thought that surprise he was bringing West the car. Yeah, I'm like, ooh. There's a charger.

Then you pulled up and I looked. You gotta see the Hellcat. Mikey, that's not the car. What's it called?

The Trackhawk? The Trackhawk. That's correct. Dude, that thing's gotta sell for a minute.

It's cool. There's no way. Yeah, it was with tax and everything, 106. 25.

That ain't enough money. I mean, shit. Some guy in China claims that he's mailing me a check for $143,000 for it, but it seems like a scam. And I'm just like, all right, if you're going to send me a fucking check, send me a check, I want to clear it.

What, are you going to ship it to China? He's going to ship it to China. Oh, jeez. It's going to cost as much as the car.

Because he's sending me an extra, it's such a scam situation, he's sending me an extra five grand to give to the shipper. So I'm just like, hey, look, if the check clears... I mean, they can have special certificates for that when it gets there. I don't know, man, all sorts of stuff.

So, like, I have had some weird experiences with people in China, and they were legit. Hopefully it's legit. And the checks were, like, it wasn't a check, it was a credit card, but like, I'm like... It says it arrives Tuesday.

Are they going to dispute this? I'm like, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to charge a card, and then I'm going to hold this stuff for 45 days, and I've done that. Yeah.

I remember when we first started taking off, we had a situation like that. Right. And I was like, yeah, this isn't real, don't send it yet. Right.

And then we reached out and it was real. The guy who was authentic. Yeah. Okay.

All right, fine. Here you go. I'll take the money. Take the money.

Well, thank you guys for having me as always. I appreciate it. I'm so happy to have you guys in our backyard and I hope you enjoy the cigars. I hope they do well for you.

A hundred percent. Yeah. And thanks for coming out again. It's my pleasure.

Anytime. I'm coming back with Lululiga next time he comes. Please bring him. He needs to be wearing a scarf though.

I want to drink or smoke marijuana or do anything. Don't mind altering substances. I believe that. I believe that.

I mean, he's angry enough as is, you know, like, you know, if I can imagine, imagine that guy on full tilt, like, shit's getting broken. This guy's been shot. You know that, right? No.

Oh, yeah, he's been shot. Several times. By friends. I don't know if I should be saying that.

Yeah, he's like, he had like a whole life before, you know, cigars. No kidding. Yeah, I know, he's 50 years old. Yeah, he's, he's, he's...

Just zoom him in. Sounds dangerous. Yeah. Someone's gonna shoot him.

Yeah. He's an old man. He's an old man. I'm like, I just want to look as good as Lulega does.

Yeah, he does look great for his age. Son of a bitch. Yeah. For sure.

He's got good genetics. Maybe that's the problem. Because he's so old, he doesn't know how to text. Right.

That's possible. He goes on the phone or check emails. It's possible. Yeah, he probably...

It's AOL spam filter. com. com. Oh my gosh, is it?

Makes sense. That would be funny. It could be. His daughter is like a very well respected journalist.

No shit. She's done TED Talks and everything. Really? Yeah.

She works for like CNN or something? Oh, wow. He doesn't want her to take his clout, so he never brings that shit up. We'll dive into that when he comes in.

All right. I want to hear about the shot stories. What did you do? What happened?

Oof, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. And why are they such a bad aim? How do you only piss off people that can't shoot? Yeah.

Yeah. All right, well, thank you, and SBC 20, we have that in our situation as well. Yep, it's being shipped to you guys. Always a great cigar, I'm keeping this one for myself.

Yeah, absolutely, enjoy. And that's it, take care, peace out. All right, guys, thank you very much for an episode 212. 212.

A Cigar Hustlers podcast, its owners and its sponsors take no responsibility for the opinions or statements made by the talk show host or their guest. Statements or show topics are not necessarily the beliefs of Mike & Mike Productions or the podcast providers and opinions between talk show hosts may differ. It is not our intention to libel, incite, or hurt anyone's feelings. We invite you to write the show's host, Mike Szczevankewicz, with any feedback or suggestions that you have for their shows.

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Hi, I'm doing, I'm Hustoy Raw. Yeah, we just don't have to do a single podcast ever again, ever. I'm good, Mike and Mike, how are you guys doing? The Hojo de Mon...

Hojo! It's the Hojo! He didn't even let him fuck it up all the way. I couldn't get past Hojo!

I don't even have to try. He's not even going to try. We're going to cover a lot of ground here, Mike. All right.

Try to keep up. That's a sign of a good podcast. It'd be like four cigars when I walked in a door. All right, end this.

Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike Squared, Mike Squared, Mike Squared, Mike Squared.

Show Notes

Round two with one of our Favorite Guest!  Brain of Privada Cigar Club....

Road Rage

Other Podcast

TPE

And a Surprise!