Episode 39 Casey Haugen of Crux Cigars

Episode Summary

Casey Haugen of Crux Cigars makes his third appearance on A Cigar Hustler's Podcast, joining hosts Mikey and Mike Palmer in the Deltona, Florida shop for a loose, unscripted conversation that starts as friendly needling and turns into one of the more substantive industry talks the show has done. Casey opens with Crux news: the 2018 edition of the IPCPR Limitada has just shipped, and a Q4 release called the Epicure Gallant is on the way — the same binder and filler as the Epicure Connecticut, but dressed in a Mexican San Andrés Maduro Negro wrapper, offered in three shapes. He also explains that Crux owns the Epicure trademark, which is why the line had to be brought to market ahead of the 2016 FDA deadline, and where the "Gallant" name came from (his dad's 1995 Mitsubishi Galant, plus the word's meaning of elegance).

The heart of the episode is a candid look at how a small brand actually grows. Casey describes Crux's production at the Plasencia factory in Estelí and what it was like traveling in Nicaragua during the 2018 civil unrest — a normally two-hour Estelí-to-Managua drive stretching to seven hours with extra security escorts, businesses shuttering, tourism dead, but the cigar sector so far among the least affected. He then breaks down Crux's sales strategy: why the company has stepped back from independent brokers after running as many as five, why commission-driven reps build their own equity instead of the brand's, the decision to hire EVP of Sales Roy McLaren (formerly of Gurkha, Davidoff and Villiger) on salary, and why Crux would rather have roughly 25 genuinely committed accounts in Florida than 300 shops nationwide that were "thrown at the wall to see what sticks." He and the hosts spar over how many truly boutique-friendly retailers exist in the U.S. — Casey guesses 400–500, Mikey argues closer to 50 — and dig into A/B/C account tiers, credit cards vs. terms, and the oversaturation of the South Florida market where Padrón, Fuente, Rocky Patel and Perdomo reps can walk in any day of the week.

The back half turns personal, which is the show's stated mission. Casey argues cigars are a relationship business and that the real skill is finding what each retailer is genuinely an expert in — a master butcher moonlighting part-time at a shop south of Houston who schooled him on smoking meats, the pipe experts at The Briar Shop in Houston, or Greg's legendary bulk-bought blue socks that have turned his feet blue. Along the way there are stops with Danny Vasquez at RoMa Craft in Austin, talk of Hector Alfonso and Espinosa, Matt Hunt and FQ Proper, Spencer Drake, minimalist travel, airplane biographies, Florida grass varieties, and Casey's dog Sparky. It's a good primer for anyone curious how a family-run boutique brand approaches distribution, patience and brand equity.

In This Episode

1. 01
   Crux New Releases: IPCPR Limitada 2018 & Epicure Gallant
   Casey details the just-shipped 2018 Limitada and the Q4 Epicure Gallant, an Epicure binder/filler blend under a Mexican San Andrés Maduro Negro wrapper in three shapes.
2. 02
   Manufacturing in Estelí Amid Nicaraguan Unrest
   Producing at the Plasencia factory, traveling with security escorts during the 2018 civil unrest, and how the cigar sector has weathered the economy better than tourism.
3. 03
   Independent Brokers vs. In-House Reps
   Why Crux pulled back from independent brokers, how commission-based selling builds the rep's equity instead of the brand's, and when a territory justifies a salaried hire.
4. 04
   Hiring an EVP of Sales
   Roy McLaren joins Crux out of Illinois after stints with Gurkha, Davidoff and Villiger, covering the northern half of the country.
5. 05
   How Many Boutique-Friendly Retailers Really Exist?
   A back-and-forth on A/B/C account tiers, the 400–500 vs. 50 debate, and why Crux only needs about 25 real partners in Florida.
6. 06
   The South Florida Saturation Problem
   Why being surrounded by industry giants and easy-access reps makes it hard for a small brand to stand out in one of the country's top four markets.
7. 07
   Cigars as a Relationship Business
   Casey on caring about retailers as people — the master butcher, the pipe experts at The Briar Shop, and Greg's infamous blue socks.
8. 08
   Life on the Road
   Texas stops in Houston, San Antonio and Austin, a visit with Danny Vasquez at RoMa Craft, minimalist packing, and biographies on airplanes.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

Every day I'm hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling, hustling. Every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling. Welcome to a Cigar Hustlers Podcast, where we take a closer look at the people of the cigar industry, with your host, Mike and Mike. Hustle and Hustle, Hustle and Hustle, Hustle and Hustle, Every Day I'm Every Day I'm Every Day I'm Every Day I'm Holy Love.

I haven't done anything. There's hardly any... When was the last time? But when did we do a recording with the...

Monday. No, we did that shit on like Friday. Nope, nope. We did it on Monday.

Oh, we did do it Friday. Yeah. I didn't do anything over the weekend. Nothing special.

Took the wife out Friday night. She went dancing. I had too much drink. Saturday was hangover day.

Sunday we went out to dinner, and then I was it. You sound like a lot of fun. I'm an old married guy. It's all we do.

Oh. Take the wife places. When your children get older, that's what you'll do. Did I have to clean up after my over-anebriated wife on the weekends?

No, I didn't clean up after. She cleaned the house all day Saturday. Oh. Oh, good.

That's her hangover medicine. Nice. Yeah. Hi, Casey.

Well, hello, sir. We have Casey back on. Casey's back on today. Sounds as excited as he was the first time.

From Crux. Ecstatic to be here. How many times have you been on this show now? How many times have I been on this show?

Just the one time? Oh, no. This is actually number three. I wasn't really on one of them.

He sat in on Spencer Drake's episode. I happened to be a innocent bystander that was corrupted. You were his driver. For the Spencer Drake edition, which would have been episode...

No, like 10, 15, something like that. But that was a better, you were better on that than you were your original interview. Because I said nothing on the second time? Yeah, no.

I would say you probably said more on the second interview. I don't think I said a word. At least you're more comfortable. I don't think I said anything.

He wasn't the center of attention. It's a lot easier when you're not the main guy. Well, you're the main guy today. No, that's always you, Mike.

Or Mike. No, no. It's you. So, we're gonna sit back and you have to fill the next 58 minutes.

So, go! 58 minutes. We'll start. Well, today's been a beautiful day for me.

I got to come visit a great retail partner of ours in Deltona, Florida. Yeah? What other shops in Deltona? I don't know.

That old guy on the other side of town, man. Called Cigar Hustlers. And I have some great partners there. Greg, one of my favorite people in the industry, does great things.

He actually gifted me a new cigar that I've always been looking forward to smoking. And maybe I could defer to his brother, who might know something about the cigar that I love to smoke. Called the SBC 1-8. I don't know anything about it.

That makes sense. Tell us more about you. So, you know, I'm happy to be here, you know. This is awesome.

It's truly a unique experience to come and be asked to me on an interview from two very prestigious interviewers that are very professional and have always, you know, treated me with the utmost respect. Yeah. And so what I like to do is when I come here, I always come prepared to be on an interview. I can't be on an interview.

You do? Absolutely, I do. So I got some great stories for you. We'll tell you right after the break.

We don't have breaks. Okay, everybody, we'll be right back. Thank you very much for listening. We lost our sponsor.

We lost our sponsor. You lost a sponsor already? We don't have sponsors. We don't have sponsors.

I have a smart-ass... You have to answer to people that way. manager, what are you? I'm the producer!

The smart-ass producer. I like to make up sponsors as we go. Yeah. Perfect.

This episode brought to you by Landshark, Lager, and beer. Oh, nice. Trademark pending. Trademark pending.

But no, so happy to be here, you want me to talk about me. Yeah, no, I want you to be real, I don't want you, you're not happy to be here, you don't fucking. That's not true. It's a lie.

You might be happy to be in the shop, but not on the show. Nobody wants to go on our show. You're right. I don't know, I mean, I think people would really like to be on a good show, but when you say, But I want you to go talk on recording for 58 minutes plus about anything and everything.

So, well, we'll go with the business side of things first. How about we start... yeah, that's a great place to start. We should really say, you know, when was he here last?

Like six months ago? Six, eight months ago. I mean, a lot has happened in your life in six to eight months. A lot has happened in my life in six to eight months.

So what's happened? Well, just kidding. No, so one thing I'll talk about first, we just released our new edition of our IPCPR Limitada that just shipped. So that'll be the 2018 edition.

And eagerly awaiting our Q4 release of our Epicure San Andreas Maduro, which is called the Epicure Gallant, which is based off of the same filler binder as our current Epicure Connecticut. But we're going to have a Mexican San Andreas Maduro Negro wrapper. So looking forward to that in three shapes. That's our newest offering for this year.

For us, everything usually comes out at the end of the year because we announce things at the show. But that's not really why we're here. You're right. We're really not here to talk about the professional side of cigars.

Because there's nothing professional about cigars. Let's be honest. Not here. Not here in this room.

Where in the industry is there anything professional about cigars? If you talk to the professionals, they'll tell you. Do we know any professionals? The motherfuckers that deem themselves professionals?

Correct. You should ask those guys. They don't talk to me. They don't talk to you.

Fair enough. So, you know, a lot of good things. I mean, we just got to wrap a beautiful baseball season that I just found out finished the other day. Should be a huge baseball fan in my whole life.

I did get to see about four innings this year on TV. And I was talking to Hector Alfonso. He asked me if I was cheering for my brewers. And I said, why would I cheer for the Brewers?

I'm from Minneapolis. He goes, oh, yeah. So Milwaukee, Minneapolis, apparently the same thing. But coming up for me, which is great, I get to finally fly back and visit my family this weekend.

Yeah. My college roommate's going to get married. God bless his heart. So that'll be an interesting.

But realistically, Mike, I do need an answer from you on one specific topic. Hit me. And you know what that topic is, so why don't you go ahead and answer that question. I don't know what the topic is.

Oh, we were talking about it the other day, and you don't need to be coy, you can just tell me all about it. I don't remember, I don't remember. Mike, this is your show, you should... What's the question?

There's a lot of tension in the room. What's the question? You don't remember at all? I gotta tell you something about Hector Alfonso, though, afterwards, so go ahead.

Why don't you ask me to talk about Hector Alfonso? Hector's been on the show. Has he really? He had to do a two-parter.

In studio? In studio. Hector Alfonso got out of Miami? Yeah.

We're big time here, everybody comes to see us. Guy came up here, we shot the shit, it was an awesome podcast, I've reached out to him a couple times for a price sheet, and he has yet to get it to me. But he's not in the sales side of things. I know, well, there is nobody in the sales side of things right now, as far as Espinosa is in the state of Florida.

I thought that was... He left. Randy? No.

Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't buy Espinosa Cigars because I'm not a retailer in Florida.

But you hang out at Caribbean. Correct. And Hector is the lead salesperson at Caribbean Cigars in Miami, Florida. I'm saying.

So, back to, are you going to tell me a story about him? That was pretty much it. That was the story. You know, he's an awesome guy.

Well, with that great news, we'll be here right after the break. Very humble. This next break is sponsored. " I don't think he has me.

You don't think he has you? Uh-uh. He's got you. He's an awesome guy.

Miami time. Miami time? Yeah. Okay.

So what was the question that you, what, what the hell? I still just need you to answer me. What is it? Come on, Mike.

What are you talking about? The story you were trying to tell me the other day, but then it got a little awkward, and I needed you to tell me in person. Don't look at me, I have no idea what's going on. He's doing a great job of fucking dogging me, because I have no idea what the hell he's talking about.

Is there a story about you and Matt Hunt on the road? No. Yeah, how has been the road going? You've been traveling a bit.

It's been great. If you listen to the podcast, you'd know exactly how it's going on. Which podcast episode? All of them.

And exactly which point, so I can fast forward. Right at the beginning, you can just go right to the beginning. Right to the beginning? We do an episode every time he gets back.

So it'd be like 32 and 35, maybe. It's awesome. How's that going? Really good.

Where was your favorite stop on your last trip? Lajero. Yeah. Yeah.

I asked him that question on the show. Lajero. That's it? Just, that's, that's, you're not gonna tell us about it?

You're not gonna tell us about that? I already told everybody about it. We got in on the show. Well, none of us are avid listeners.

Yeah, you clearly are not. What are the episodes that you listen to? I don't know. Probably the first seven?

No, no. You told us it was five before. Six? Eight?

You can't increase within ten minutes. It's not possible. I started listening to them when I was really intrigued by the content that was coming out of here with your initial thought process of what you guys wanted to do for a show. And then at some point, it just bored me.

Yeah? No, I'm kidding. I do try to listen to as many as I can. I do enjoy hearing the side of things.

I did really appreciate the avenue you guys were taking learning more about people than just their cigars. Because this industry is, I mean, not solely, but most importantly, relationship-based. And getting to know people by actually caring about people is kind of what this show means in your, you know, narcissistic, I mean, like, totally vindictive, self-sufficient way of talking about people, and thankfully you have somebody that is a little bit, you know, appreciative for people being a part of it is your co-host, Mike. KC was episode seven, episode seven, I said seven, he was episode seven, so 31 episodes later you got like nothing new to report, I mean, come on.

Well, since then. That was in February. So, about every six months. About every six months.

About every six months. So, like, have you been on the road recently? Been on the road a lot. Spent a lot of time in Central America over the last three months.

What the hell are you doing there? We manufacture cigars out of Esteli. Oh, no, really? Yeah, we do.

So, we use a Placentia factory. They've been a great partner for us. It's been a little bit, you know. So, how's that been?

Because, like, there's some shit going on in Nicaragua. There is a lot of stuff going on. I unfortunately happened to be down there at the end of May. Things had kind of calmed down, and we needed to get down there before their trade show, which is the IPCPR in July, for people that don't know, and we needed to get down there and secure some things, and it had kind of quieted down, and we took our team, myself, my cousin Jeff, and our designer Mark were all down there, basically strengthened numbers, figured we'd be better, but… Multiple white people is better than just the one?

Just multiple people, Americans. It could be harder to hide three-way guys. I mean, Mark's a bigger guy. He's probably like 6'3", you know, a little safer.

A little safer. A little safer. I know I can outrun him. But it was very dicey.

Estelita Managua turned into a seven-hour trip, which is usually two. Multiple extra security cars, sponsored by Plasencia Family Factory, that wanted to make sure our journey It was safe, which we appreciate that, but it was very dicey, there's things that happened that week that were, you know, all over the news that you guys can go read about if you want to, but the last few trips I've been down there, a few weeks ago, and then about a little, about a month and a half ago, it's calmed down, it's quieter, it's eerie quiet, businesses are closing, tourism is essentially dead, the economy is in rough shape, but the cigar industry and SLE has probably been the least affected and it's It's not outside of the entire -- everything else that's going on in the country. Right. So business seems to be as usual, but that could change at any time.

So a lot of things, I mean, you know, it seems like every year the cigar business throws us a curveball. If it's not the FDA, if it's whatever it is, it's civil unrest in the country that, you know, we do our cigar. I mean, a lot of cigars, I think it was, you know, tens of millions of cigars, you know, I think we're up 10% over last year from Nicaraguan cigars as an industry. And so that's a good sign, but I mean that could change at any given moment, I mean we don't really know when you have the economy the way it is there, but so moving forward, not a whole lot is new in my life because I travel, I just got back from the Texas area last week, I was in Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, I visited your boys at what do they call their factory?

Not their factory. I saw the factory, too. Romacraft Headquarters? Romacraft Headquarters.

Saw Danny Vasquez. Yeah. Saw him. Mixed feelings about that guy.

I don't know where I stand with him. See, I know where I stand with him because him and I had some hard-to-hard conversations. We got to play some Tiger Woods golf, and I feel like that's a great way to connect. Yeah.

Skip and Mike were overseas in, I believe, Italy, France, somewhere. Right. They were doing something. I got to spend some time there.

And then, fortunate enough to, this week, have a few days to head up to Deltona to visit Cigar Hustler. See, I think that's kind of where I'm fucking up, because normally when I talk with Danny, it's always like business stuff, and we don't really sit around and play video games. No bonding. Obviously, you know, he was on the clock when you were there.

It was actually a Sunday afternoon, so it wasn't on the clock. Wow. Because I flew in Sunday because I had deployments on Monday. I heard a salary.

I'm just kidding. I don't know. No, but so it's not a whole lot new in the life, but I mean, there's, you know. How's your girlfriend?

My girlfriend. My girlfriend is fantastic. She's doing awesome. It's great to see her.

Sometimes I see her, sometimes I don't. How's the dog? The dog? Oh, my dog.

Yeah, that one that I have in Las Vegas, still alive? Not that dog. I saw another dog. I've got another dog.

This is awesome. I've got another dog. See, 'cause you were trying to make some shit awkward about me, but now, like, I definitely catch you a lot. My other dog is fantastic.

Yeah? Yep, it's awesome. What's your other dog's name? Sparky.

He's a white Siberian Husky. Really? Yeah, he's about three years old. We rescued him from the shelter.

Cool. More of a city dog. So you don't have a girlfriend then? He's shaking his head no.

Does she know that you're not dating? Oh, no. She knows we're dating. We're having a great time.

You know, she's loving my life. This is awesome. Are you good over there? I'm fine.

I'm listening. What are you, Facebooking or something? No, no, no. I'm just kidding.

People are messaging me things. Oh, cool. I'm a busy man. I've got things to do.

Anyways. Apparently, you only get one of two Mike Palmers. You either get the interjecting Mike Palmer that'll cut you off in mid-seminutes like that. He's talking politics and stuff.

I'm just listening. It's very interesting. Or you get the one that just totally checks out. He's checked out.

So, Mark, what do you want to know about? What's going on in your life? I started a cigar brokerage house. I did know about that.

Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. So, what are the qualifications for a rep in- Are you guys looking for somebody by chance? For a rep or independent broker?

What are the qualifications to start your own brokerage? No, for you to have somebody, let's say I know a guy that is looking to expand or eliminate the rest of his portfolio and take on a brand. Eliminate the rest of his portfolio? So solely going to focus on my brand?

I mean, if he needs to go in-house, then that's what has to happen, right? I mean, I guess, if he needs to go in-house, I mean, that's up to, I mean, that's really completely different than an independent broker. So would you be looking for an in-house guy, are you in the market for a current person to sell cigars in Florida? I'm definitely not in the market for an in-house guy.

An in-house guy at this stage for me is financially not responsible. Casey is never going to come back to the store. So you need a broker? We need representation.

A broker? Not necessarily it has to be a broker. Representation can be one of two things. Somebody walking around the state of Florida with a Crux shirt on?

Pretty much. You just pass them out. You know, go to Miami Stadium, pass out a bunch of t-shirts. People think we're, you know, strength in numbers.

No, I mean, for us it's always been find retail partners. And we've done the independent broker thing many times. We've had as many as five independent brokers. And what we learned from the majority of them doesn't speak for all of them, especially new guys that are brand new to the industry, to the independent industry.

I mean, it could be a new breed out there that we're not aware of yet, but the independent broker game has been a difficult for us because, you know, they have a portfolio of cigars that they're selling and they're based off mostly commission, so they just want to sell your cigars any way they can, and they don't always have the best interest of the brand, so they go wide and they kind of throw stuff out there and see what sticks, which, I mean, I would, too, if I was based off commission, I just, I want to knock on as many doors and put it in as many places, however, for us, we don't have always a lot of excess inventory, even though we've been building it this year, so we have less inventory issues from here on out, especially with our newest releases and our best sellers, but just to go super wide with an independent broker is not our game plan, it's visit accounts, we have the ability to say no to an account if it's really not a great fit, Right. If it's not the kind of store that carries something that we can be successful with, they're not willing to help. Because you have to create a pull product. And the way to create a pull product is to have a partner in that retail store that is going to help sell it first, and then obviously the product has to stand on its own.

Right. But obviously there's a lot of accounts in the state of Florida. And realistically, for a company that's our size, we only need as many as 25 accounts throughout the entire state. Right.

To be successful for us, for territory. And then at that point, when you reach a certain dollar value, then you put a direct person in because now they're basically managing the partners that we've deemed to be great partners for us. So the independent road for us was, we started it, I mean, we did it at, you know, I think it was 2015, we had five. So you don't want in-house?

No, I do. In-house is absolutely the way to go. That's where they want to go eventually. But until you build a territory that sustains itself, you have to be able to pay their salary, and for the fact that we did hire an EVP of sales at the trade show, so I have some help on the sales side to cover territories that I wasn't servicing enough, because it was me running around the country, and my cousin Jeff would fly in for certain events and obviously spend time in Central America, but it's building a territory to the level where we can put somebody in house.

So who's your EVP? His name is Roy McLaren. He was the old, he worked with Gurkha, Davidoff, and most recently he was with Villiger. He's based out of Illinois, so he's covering more than, we'll call it the northern half of the United States for us.

And it's been a good fit so far. He brings a lot of different experience that I don't have, like professional side. And, you know, that corporate cigar structure, a little bit more structured for us. Obviously, I have a little bit more of that youth and free will and understanding of, you know, where a lot of our retail partners have come from.

So, it's been a great partnership for us so far. Obviously, he's full-time for us, but we are definitely moving in the direction of growing our company year in and year out, and with the addition of him, the addition of, you know, buying more raw tobaccos, our inventory levels, We're putting ourselves in a position to continually grow with the right partners throughout the country and more territories. So you put a guy like that on salary? Absolutely.

We put that one guy on salary. So we want him to be crux all the time. And we made the decision to do that because we knew if we wanted to continue to grow our company at a larger level, we had to have, you know, more than, you know, just myself and Jeff and Mark as that full-time crux, but we needed more people on the ground. I gotta be honest Mike, it doesn't sound like he's interested.

And that's not necessarily true. No. There's no such... It's not you, it's me.

Because he's here, it's not you, it's me, correct. But the fact is like we look at it from the perspective of we want our brokers that we have or in-house people to always have it be successful. And there's multiple things that when we would look at the right people for us is what is their current portfolio? Is their current portfolio, you know, in line with ours?

Is it something that, you know, they have a lead driver, somebody that they can go in through another retailer and say like, you know, is Crux Cigars going to be the one that's going to be their moneymaker? I mean, then, you know, we don't have a presence in Florida, so he's going to be starting with very little residual income. That's kind of hurtful. I mean, I carry your product, and I'm in Florida.

I said very little. He said very little. He said very little. He did say very little.

Would you like to rewind the tape? How many accounts do you have in Florida? A handful. So like five?

Yeah. It seems to be the magic number for a company. Well, I think what's kind of funny is the reality of it is that there aren't many good retailers. No.

I wouldn't say that. I don't want to throw that in there. I want to say South Florida is a very saturated cigar market. Okay.

Well, I guess we're not in South Florida, but Florida in general, because Florida is one of the top four markets in the country as a whole, and there's a lot of cigars smoked in Florida, but the oversaturation of all the manufacturers based in South Florida makes it very difficult to stand out as a smaller brand. Well, I think that, yeah, I mean, sure. As far as your mainstream cigars, they're going to move at any shop. That doesn't require an educated retailer.

You're going to put Monte Cristos on the shelf, a guy's going to come in and say, oh, look, white labels, right? You're going to do Padrones if you can get there, then same scenario. The guys, the retailers that put in the time and the effort to educate their consumers on smaller products, you know, smaller production products, there aren't that many out there. There's only a handful of retailers in every state.

I think you're a little light, because, I mean, the difference is like, going back to Florida specifically, because it's so convenient for, I mean, And I don't know exactly the percentage, but a very high percentage of all manufacturers do business out of Florida because of our taxes and the logistics of Central America. And you could at any given time get an industry giant like Padrón, Fuente, Rocky, Nick Perdomo, one of those guys that are stopping through these shops, they expect these things, and they have the availability to have these industry moguls. And people can come through at any given time at these shops. But with the rest of us being in South Florida, it's also very accessible to drive up the coast three hours, very little dollars spent to drive up to Orlando service accounts, and people can do that frequently.

So they tend to start at home base and then work their way out. For us, it was different because we had moved our operation here after we had started. So, we already had some footholds in other territories, and then when I was in South Florida, realizing that, you know, I did a tour, I did, I went through these places, and these weren't great partners for us, because there was the mainstays on every humidor, and they sold a ton of cigars, but they were also wanting terms, which we like credit cards, because we like to get paid, and it just wasn't a great partnership for retailers that don't need more cigars, because they're already oversaturated, their humidors are full, and they're selling a ton of cigars. It doesn't make them not educated retailers, but it makes them, you know, we have the access to Costco of cigars based out of South Florida, and why would I run to the quickie mark to grab something that I can get right here all day?

Well, those Costco's don't carry small production stuff more often than not, or they're not educated on those things because they don't need to be and they don't really care to be. They don't care to be, exactly. And they don't have to be because they have a sustaining business that's very successful. But then when you go to other markets in the United States, I mean, there is that, you know, you can call that cigar geek, that those areas that, you know, They love to find new products.

They want what is basically helping the industry stay very competitive. But how many of those people do you think are out there? How many exact number of goods, small... Just a guesstimate.

A guesstimate? I'd say overall, I bet you there's four or five hundred across the country. Four or five hundred. I'd say there's about four or five hundred quality retailers throughout the United States that are friendly to smaller retailers.

It's awesome because you're thinking about everything that you're saying because you don't want to upset anybody, which is pretty funny. Okay. I think that that number is definitely less. Well, what do you think the number is?

So you think it's five per state? So you think it's 250? I'd say that you probably have, on a national level, boutique cigars with some magnitude, maybe 50. 50 total retailers that sell boutique companies.

that can move product on a higher level like not your standard like your let's say that your standard one of those big big guys starts at 35 or 40 thousand dollars annually in sales wholesale level from a manufacturer or a brand owner right and that's considered like an a account right and And then you have your B retailers that'll do, I don't know, 10 to 20,000, right? And those are obviously a little bit more, that number's a little bit higher. Then you have your C's that'll do like your 5 to 10, right? 5,000 in sales, those are probably in the few hundreds.

But the reality of it is your big dogs that promote and build your product, The product that focuses on smaller brands, there's not very many of them. Yeah, but if you break that down into, you know, smaller companies, I mean, we're not trying to sell 5 million cigars a year. I mean, our goal at some point is to reach a million cigars, and we're nowhere near that yet. I mean, we'll produce about 500,000 cigars last year, which will be up from last year significantly, or this year significantly.

And 500,000 cigars, overall, you don't need 500 retailers. No, but that kind of brings me back to my point, you know, is the fact that how many good retailers actually exist in every state for boutique cigars? I mean, I still think there's more than- 700? I don't think, yeah, now it's 700.

I think there's definitely pockets of markets throughout the country. You can't tell me that you haven't walked into a shop at some fucking guy who's retired, right, really doesn't give a fuck about you, your brand, what you're selling, and doesn't want to take anything on. He's okay with what he's got, with his mainstream stuff, and that's that. Is this an experience that has happened to you since you started traveling?

Of course that's happened to me. I found that in the last two and a half weeks. Right. But you've got to look at it from the side of, you know, they want either what's going to make them more money or something that they don't have, right?

They only want what they don't have if somebody's asking for it. Correct. So you've got to create that pull product. And how often do those guys – let's say that you hit it off with a guy like that.

Sure. Right? And you open up their account. How often does their card come fucking declined?

Because that shit happens a fuck ton. Well, the difference between card declining and not enough funds, I mean, I mean, the difference is I think I almost call every, you know, almost every retailer, he has a card compromise every year. You know, so, I mean, we'll start there. The fact is that, I mean, your card gets declined every other time I run it.

Yeah, that's on purpose. I give you the wrong numbers. But what I'm saying is… Around here he calls that his terms. Well, what?

Yeah, terms. So shipping, you know, I'll get you a credit card. But no, I think what you're saying… And I think what you're saying is there's definitely different waves of retailers. I mean, there's, you know, there's newer waves that are tied into social media, they're tied into online blogs, they're tied into podcasts, you know, they know what these things are.

And then there's guys that have been doing business for so long that they've had a sustaining business that they don't see, it's not broke, don't fix it. Have you been into some of those shops, though? It looks pretty broken. Yeah, but it depends what's broke for them, you know what I mean?

He's right. If they're happy, you know, with whatever the $30,000, $40,000 a year they're making, they're not gonna make any changes. They don't want to grow. They don't want to open a second shop.

It's just more work for them. Right. So if they can make that with their Fuentes and their Padrones and their whatever else they're carrying, they're not gonna pick up a Pustania or a Crux or, you know, a Florinata or something. They don't need to, as far as they're concerned.

I like all those names you just mentioned. I threw all the names out. I like all of them, too. But, I mean, I found out walking in.

They're like, "You're with whom? " Yeah, but that goes back down to the failure of the brand, right? One of the bigger issues that I have in the industry is the fact that independents or even sales reps are held accountable for lack of sales when no one's asking about their product, no consumers asking about their product, no retailers asking about their product. So who really failed the brand at that point?

Is it the sales rep that goes to check in, or is it the brand itself? Well, I think, I mean, you obviously have to put all the blame back on the original source. So if our brand at Crux isn't known somewhere, it's 100% mine, Jeff, and Mark's fault. Right.

But do you think that in the egotistical industry that we're in, do you think that that is the normal mindset for brand owners and manufacturers? I mean, I really can't speak for other people, because, like, I think that if you hire somebody directly… Are you fucking running for president? You can just have a goddamn opinion. No, but what I'm saying is, if you are hiring somebody that's a direct person, their job specifically is to sell your brand.

Educate people so they're an extension of your company. But if you hire an independent, they're an extension of their own company. And we see independent brokers jump from brand to brand to brand to brand to brand to brand, so there's no consistency. No, and that's it.

You go in one time, it doesn't mean nothing to that guy you just walked in on. Yeah, and so then the guy drops that brand, and he picks up two different ones, and the fact is, his loyalty is with that guy at that shop. That guy knows. The guy's buying me, let's just say.

When I go in, he's buying me. He's not buying your cigar. He's not buying your cigar. He's buying me, hoping I come back again.

And no matter what you come back with, he's probably going to buy your portfolio. Right. Second or third time through. It doesn't build brand equity.

And that goes to the point where, like, we've sold cigars in, you know, over 300 shops throughout five years, you know. And we've scaled it back because those brokers that we opened up, they were throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Which, I mean, is there accounts that all open up that, you know, I'm like, well, this is kind of a unique account. I mean, you know, specifically, there's some in the middle of nowhere that have a whole lot of representation.

And all of a sudden, you become their best cigar in their humidor. We're a small brand, and they're a small shop, but yet we can do $25,000 a year with a shop that maybe only sells a quarter million to $400,000 a year, but when you're going into other shops and they're buying from Mike Palmer, the independent rep, they're going to buy from Mike Palmer, the independent rep, because he's there every month, it doesn't matter what he's selling, he's going to support his lines, but now the independent side is, it isn't job security with each company, because it isn't ever- I think it's a ever-evolving thing for, you know, to find, you know, different brands that are selling, what's hot, what's not, what's working, and obviously when you're a commission-based employee, I mean, I would take on as much as I think I can handle. You said it earlier, when it gets up to a certain point, you're going to take it in-house. So if, let's say, I did you and it does well, you're going to take it in-house and then I'd lose it.

Then you would lose it, and that's why we don't have an independent rep, because I think the fact is, firing somebody for the fact that you pay them too much commission It's kind of silly. Right. But that happens a lot. Sure it does.

It happens all the time. It happens all the time. And there's some companies that it hasn't happened to. I mean, I know a few of the older boutique companies that are now still technically boutique that haven't gotten rid of their independent brokers and they still do it.

Maybe they've renegotiated or whatever. But the fact is, in order to have a successful brand equity in a territory, you have to have a Constant. Constant performance in the cigar, a constant representation, as well as the constant people, because even when you have an in-house person, if you turn in the same person over every year, they don't constantly get behind that brand because they're not constantly there with the same people. And as long as Crux Cigars is firing, it's our family's company.

Jeff started it, and I'm a part of it, and Mark is our in-house designer and marketer, and he doesn't have our last name. But, like, that's a constant. Like, I've been a part of this, I moved to South Florida for the company, and, like, the constant is, I have great relationships through some territories in this country, and we do very well in a lot of places, but now for me to bring on a bunch of independent reps to redo that, just because I have excess inventory, is not brand equity. Right.

And if you want to sell cigars today, great. I've always said, anybody can sell cigars today, because everybody wants to know what's new. " They know who we are. then you go into the one that's not too far down the road, and he's no idea who I am.

But then you have to show him what you've done. You have to show him basically your history, and you have to build that relationship. And then all of a sudden, in 30 days, all of a sudden I have somebody that's now representing me. He doesn't know that person.

I mean, so it's – back to the whole point of it, being in a relationship business, where this podcast started, learning about people, it's almost learning about the names of that retailer's family. What does he like to do? Is he a scotch, wine, soda, coffee drinker? I mean, his hobbies.

" No, it's a passionate industry. And everybody has… So you don't write it down? Or do you do? " Correct.

But I mean, you look at it, everybody that you meet is very intelligent or an expert on something. Something. On something. It may be nothing you're interested in.

Like belly button lint? Sure. It could be something. But if you find what they're passionate about, like if you ask me what I'm an expert on, I mean, very little.

But I love to talk about golf and I love to talk about our company and I like to talk about my family. And baseball. I'm not really an expert on baseball. I mean, I played it.

My dad's been a college baseball coach for 40-plus years. I know the mechanics of baseball. Don't ask me what happened this year in Major League Baseball, though, because I don't follow baseball on a day-to-day. Do you want to talk about the Ryder Cup that just happened?

You know, when we got shellacked over in Paris? Sure, I know everything about it. , set my alarm Saturday morning to watch it because I enjoy that. But you're an expert in something.

Mike's an expert in something. But truly making that personal connection can only do wonders for your business if you truly care about the brand equity in your business, which makes, in turn, turn to the good side of people. And in our business, I mean, it's one of those unique industries that has truly a passion behind what we're doing, and we're not selling vacuum cleaners. Nobody wants to buy a vacuum cleaner.

They have to buy a vacuum cleaner. That's pretty badass. Yeah, until you've got to buy the next one and the next one and the next one, and you don't want a vacuum, you know? I vacuum every day.

But because you have to. I'm an expert at it. Your robot vacuums every day. No, it doesn't.

I got the little Dyson. This shit's way faster. You don't have the little guy running around him? No, he's just parked and charged.

He does nothing. " Really? Yeah, you gotta dump it out like every 10 seconds, the iRobot. Oh, it's got a small pan on it.

It's so stupid. You've got those two big dogs. It gets caught and shit, and you gotta go dig it out. It's like, man, it'd just be a lot easier.

" Yeah, no. Go over to Mikey's house. You can steal his and let her know it's gone. I'd probably appreciate if you stole it at this point.

Becoming a minimalist. Just need less shit. Get it too much shit in my house, too. So what am I an expert at, Casey?

That's for you to... You have to decide, not Casey. No, so I ask you some questions. No, no, he just says down, Mikey, asshole, remember?

That's all he's gonna put in. So I come in and I say, Palmer, what'd you do last weekend? He just told us he loves to spend time with his wife. Right.

You know, he likes to go to dinner. Like to pick up after. He likes to get drunk. I don't pick up after.

He likes to get drunk. You know, like. Yeah, we like to get drinking. Wives like to go dancing.

They like to dance. So you, well, what kind of dance? You just, it's follow-up questions. But like, how long have we known each other now?

Officially? Three years, probably. Three years? What do I really know about you?

Yeah. As little as possible. Because you're only half of a cigar hustler. And I really only have to make that relationship with one side of your company.

Okay, so, okay, so then what's Greg like to do? Yeah, what's Greg like to do? He loves blue socks. He does love blue socks, that's fantastic that you just brought that up.

He loves blue socks, and it's very interesting to me that some of his, we'll call them quirks, that makes him who he is. Like, he is an expert at bulk buying of colored blue socks. That is so true. For the reason of why he thinks blue socks are the best, and he wears them under the same...

I mean, he's had since he was 12. Yep. I mean, it might be his 12th pair. It is.

He does. He buys those a bulk, too. He's all about bulk. But I totally understand where he's coming from, from somebody that is minimalistic.

When I travel, like, I have been wearing the same polo, the same polo, the same jacket. How are you wearing that fleece-looking top thing? It's actually polyester. Oh.

Excuse me. But the difference is, like, I've obviously got multiple of them, but I can travel minimal. i can take a carry-on i can wake up i don't have to make a decision of what i'm going to wear today it's you know semi-professional we'll call it i don't ever look like the most dressed person in the room but i also don't look like a slob when i walk in any place because i have a tucked in collared shirt and if it's cold which most places are for me because you know i like my heat um i have a pullover and i work but for me it's easy but your brother lives in obviously his own retail He can dress any way he wants, and he dresses the same every day. Same socks.

He totally broke down of why he only has blue socks. I don't know if you know why he only has blue socks. Because then he doesn't have to match them together. Right.

" So now they're just randomly in the drawer. Oh yeah, he's got an entire-- I mean, they're all exactly the same, so why a bunch of them-- He buys a lot of them every year and throws all the other ones out. The weirdest thing, I don't understand why he hasn't changed, because it turns his feet blue. You just beat me to it, brother.

It turns his feet blue, and he won't show me his feet. Because they're blue. Because they're blue. Like a smurf, he's got blue smurf feet.

He's a guy that went ice fishing in central Minnesota in December and forgot to wear boots. And he's got blue feet. And he's got blue feet. And so these are the things I know about your brother because I care about him as a person.

He has some socks framed on the wall in his house, too. Were they the first blue pairs? No, the ones that dog ate. The ones that dog ate.

Those ones cost money, though, because then you have to have surgery. And then you have to have surgery. Yeah, the dog almost died. Several times.

But that's part of the reason why we're here. I remember when we did our first podcast together for episode seven, I wanted to know about you as well. And I haven't listened to your podcast about you. We did do one.

We did do one specifically about it. It was pretty good. I think, I don't know. But I want to know, what do you truly, are you passionate about outside cigars?

Just getting to know Casey. No, let's take down the curtains, you know. It's his family. Family.

His wife, his kids. He's a big family guy, wife, his kids. Yep. Like, I know you love to do yard work, you talk about doing yard work every weekend.

Oh, I love it. Every time I do it, I gotta go mow the lawn, gotta go mow the lawn. Works out every morning, likes to work out. But there's something, when you make a connection with anybody, like, it could be something I don't even know exists.

Like, a great example for me, I don't smoke pipe. Cigars. Pipe. Old pipe tobacco.

Our family, we've had it in our retail store since I can remember. I've never smoked one. I don't know much about pipes. I was in a shop in Houston last week that has about half of their entire space is all pipes and tobaccos.

And their spaces would be covering, like, all your display areas here at Cigar Hustlers, so let's say 1,000 square feet, 2,000 square feet. Right. Walls lined of... What's the name of the shop?

The shop is the Breyer Shop in Houston. Great, great... That kind of fits the name. Exactly, it fits it.

And they, they, it was, it was fantastic to listen, the intelligence that these people had behind the passion, which is still our industry. And I don't know anything about, you know, pipe smoking. And... But you know Greg has blue socks.

But I know Greg has blue socks. But I got to know, I got to learn about it. And to me, it's fascinating, because for something that has the difference between... You know, a $5 option, which is a corncob pipe, to a handcrafted, multi-thousand dollar, one-of-a-kind, you know, premium tobacco pipe, like, it's crazy to listen to these people talk about how intelligent they are about them.

And then, another great example, I was in a shop south of Houston last week, and the guy was a master butcher, which I didn't even know that existed, and he was basically a master butcher, you have to pass tests along the way, but essentially it's minimum 25 years being a butcher. Did he work at the shop, or just hanging out there? He was, now he's an older guy who's one of the part-time employees that hangs out, and we were talking about smoking meats, because we're in Texas, you know, we were looking for some good barbecue, and he goes, and Jeff had just bought himself a new, Jeff, my cousin, just bought himself a new Traeger, is that how you say that, Traeger? I don't know.

It's a smoker, it's a decent sized smoker that he's been experimenting with, and trying a few things, and we got a lot of information from a master butcher of ways to smoke things, temperatures to smoke things. I'm not going to smoke anything, I don't want me to have a smoker on my balcony in my condo, but I now know a lot more about smoking meat than I did two weeks ago, and I'll never forget the fact that those kind of things, cool shop, cool guy, part time guy, but he's an expert at obviously being a butcher. He knows his meat. He knows his meat.

He loves his meat. And it's interesting to find any commonality with new people to, A, enlighten yourself of what else is out there, to be more open to experiences and, you know, basically seeing what other people have, you know, found a passion for that aren't completely mainstream. So, you've got to have something that you enjoy. This episode's been very serious.

This actually wound up being a really good podcast. It did though. It is. It's very good.

What if you cut out the first 15 minutes? Well, I had to break the ice. I had to get you going. I think you want to know what got you going was when I asked the girlfriend question.

That was the one. That got me going? Yeah. So was there not a girlfriend?

What was the joke? No, I have a lady in my life. Oh. Yeah.

And that's it. Okay. But are you still going to answer my question? What's the question?

What are you passionate about? I have no idea. You really don't know? No.

So, like, if I wanted to say, you know, Mike, what are you going to do, now, family, obviously a given, but if you get a week to go be Mike, do, go where, go see, go travel, go do, what are you going to do? Oh, I wouldn't know. It's just the general accumulation of knowledge that I like to do. So you think you're not an expert in anything, you're just, you're an expert bullshitter?

I'm a bullshitter. There's a saying. Not an expert at one thing, but something at others. Jack of all trades?

Master of none? There you go. Maybe that's it. Jack of all trades.

I definitely am not a master of, like, carpentry or anything like that. I can't do this shit. I'm terrible. That's your brother.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I like people. He's boring me.

How about you, Palmer? I'm not an expert at anything, either. I like to learn new stuff, though. He knows a shit ton about China.

And China. Well, because I do work with China. Yeah, but there's things that, I mean, manufacturing side, agricultural side. Manufacturing side.

And cultural side. I've been going to China for over 15 years. Yeah, and see, those are things I'd love to sit and have a real conversation with because I have never been to China. " That show fascinates me.

Yeah, I've seen that before. That show fascinates me. I don't know if it's 100% bullshit half the time or not because it is on television. They show all the fun stuff.

They show the fun stuff. " I mean, that's not that fun. Right. But it's interesting.

It's not watching a guy sitting on a stool with a screwdriver turning it through 5,000 times a day. They're Uber drivers in China are badass. Yeah. So like if you pull up to a place and you're hammered.

He shows up on a little motorized bicycle. Yeah. He shows up on a little motorized bicycle and throws it in your car. He folds it up, throws it in your trunk, drives your car, takes you home.

And then when you get there, he gets out, pulls his little bike. And it's still based off Uber. Yeah. Same idea.

There's an app on the phone. But it's called Uber. No, there's some Chinese people. Oh, so it's not Uber.

But the people there, they call it the Chinese Uber. They used Uber. At least they did for us. So they knew we had Uber.

But did you use the Uber app? They have a different app. Oh. Because they have social media blocks over there.

So probably a regular Uber probably wouldn't work. Yeah, and so that whole manufacturing side in China, I mean, I would love to go spend, I mean, a month just touring manufacturing sites. Oh, that's a long time. Two weeks is about as long as I have to go.

Alright, two weeks. See, expertise. He's already told me, I don't need a month. Greg went last time.

You know, to me, it's absolutely fascinating to see that side of things. I mean, obviously, being in the manufacturing side of Cigar, I get to see everything from the seed being planted to when you get to enjoy that illimitada PB5. I get to see the whole way and I know the process. I may not be an expert in planting, I may not be an expert in fermenting, but there are experts that are teaching me along the way.

And at some point, you get to have enough information of an industry where you know most general ideas, but that's when you're basically just getting started. Somebody that knows the seed to smoke process, that's basic. But spending, I mean, I've spent, I don't know how many weeks, 30 or so weeks, you know, 30 or so trips, 40 trips, I can't remember the number. That's almost as many podcasts that you haven't listened to.

Correct. I think you can listen to him on all those trips. He travels a lot. He does.

I do travel a lot. A lot of time in airplanes. What do you do when you travel? What do I do when I travel?

What do you do on planes when you're just sitting there? You can't smoke. I do a lot of reading. What kind of books you like?

A lot of biographies. I like to read. I mean, nonfiction to me is more interesting than fiction. And then since over the last few months I was late to the party, was introduced to the fact that Netflix and Amazon Prime also lets you download videos now for a single serving use, that has come in handy.

So I'm catching up on all movies that are downloadable that I've thought about watching. Podcasts are downloadable too. Can I read it offline though? Watch it offline?

Yeah, you can download it before you get offline. But does it come up with a notification on my phone that says download these movies? Yes. Yes.

I'll ask you if you want to download it. Do I get an iPhone? Do you have iTunes? Do you have it?

No. What kind of phone do you have? Galaxy S4. So you can listen to it on Google Play.

I made that up. We're also on Google Play. That was the last Galaxy I can remember. He definitely has an iPhone.

He does. He has an iPhone. We're on Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Player of M, Stitcher. No, I do want to listen.

I do want to listen to different things. We're on some new one just came up the other day when I Googled our show. Does it cast boxes? Do you guys have an email blast that this sends out to remind people?

Mikey does it as part of the email with the shop. You can see a spike in listeners when he does it. Yeah, because, I mean, there is a lot of, I mean, there's a, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of podcasts, and I try to stay up on the time. You follow our podcast on Instagram.

Absolutely. Well, we put it up every Tuesday when the new episode goes up. The episode is every Tuesday. Every Tuesday.

Yep. That's really the only time the Instagram is active is on Tuesdays, when I put up the little poster of who's on. And I try to stay in touch with a lot of them. There is a lot of guys that do it.

There is a lot of more podcasts than there is a lot of me. But there is definitely things that I'm interested in. And when I was obviously immersed in this six, seven months ago, I probably listened to six or seven in a row. Maybe it was five.

I don't remember the number. But if we went through the list, I could tell you if I ever listened to them. I remember listening to one about... There are quite a few you were on that I listened to the first time you came on.

Yeah, on Carney, I remember listening to Carney's, Drake's. The Pirate? Drake was depressing. Well, his life is depressing.

It's true. But it's a great way to get to know industry people. " Right. " I understand that.

Yeah, it makes perfectly good sense. And I always say the fact is he, as much as we'd like to, you know, dog that guy, he is a good person. He is. Somewhere.

Sometimes, yeah. No, somewhere, in his heart, he's a good person. And he's been a good friend to me, and I always say if I'm talking smack about somebody, they must be more than a friend to me. Right.

You know, they're actually good people. That's why you never talk shit about me. I never have talked shit about you. Because we're not friends.

We're not friends. He knows nothing about you. He's all about your enigma. You're an enigma.

But if somebody digs so far, eventually they get to that level of hard clay in the earth's core that if you can't get through that clay, you really can't get to a person's heart. It's true. And Mike doesn't allow me into his heart. He's not letting you in.

He's very closed off. I mean, I just want to get to your hot magma. I just want to get to your hot magma. Has he been out to the house?

Why would he invite somebody like me to his house? He doesn't even like me. Well, he invites people to the house he doesn't like all the time. He has hunt over often.

I like Hunt. Just dogging Hunt. How's he doing? Great.

They had a lot of sex on their trip. FQ Proper is doing really well. Good for him. He's a good dude.

He is. I like him. He's a good dude. He's your people.

He lives on an island. He knows a lot about me. He is your people. He knows a lot about you.

You spend a lot of time with him. Did you see the girl he took a picture with the other day? In Tampa? I think he was on a date.

Is that his girlfriend? Yeah. Oh, she's very pretty. Good for him.

See, you're on the outside. I always ask him, but he always says no. He's very reserved about that stuff. Well, actually, it was her picture he was tagged in, so.

I know. Yes. Nothing he can do about that. Nope.

Secret's out. " Mm-hmm. No, but you guys do do a lot of interesting ideas when you plan a podcast, unlike this one, where I'm staring at a blank sheet of, you know, podcast notes. I like the impromptus.

Which I believe that... We're having more fun, though, with the wing of them. I believe that the top of this page was going to say, 'cause there's a pen on it. " He takes notes as you talk about something else he wants to come back at.

But he didn't even put any questions or anything, so he realistically cares a lot about this podcast. We used to do show notes, but we haven't had a new person. Not this specific one. No, that's not true.

I do care a lot about this podcast, this particular one. But here's the thing, like, this, like, board, this paper here, it's designed for me to, if you start going on a tangent, And I want to address something. I'll write it down. So that way, as you kind of finish with, you know, whatever you say, racially or whatever the case may be, I'll come back.

Even if you want it to be kind of an open topic, just there would be some sort of direction to have like one or two bullet points to cover an hour. I mean, that would only be normal. There's nothing normal about this podcast. I feel like a more organic format where it just sort of flows.

I want the raw, real Casey. I don't want some. You know, I think we got it. He talked quite a bit today.

It took a minute, but we got him there. We got him. Well, you didn't ask me any questions. Yes, I did.

You said... See, he's very good at this. He did ask you questions, but you didn't notice. See that?

He led you in the direction he wanted you to go. So you're an expert interviewer. I'm an expert podcaster. He is.

You're an expert interviewer. So you are passionate about podcasts. I'm passionate about everything that I do. That's not true.

That is true. But... Including the lawn. The lawn.

So, like, what kind of grass do you have in your yard? Well, in the front I have St. Augustine, that's also caked with sedge, and the back is Zoysia. Can you spell that?

Z-O-Y-S-I-A. Do we need to fact check that? He's a really good speller. I'm not a speller.

We don't fact check on this podcast. I'm not a speller. I'm not a speller. Z-O-Y-S-I-A.

I'm not even good with spelled check. Fucking Zoysia. Zoysia is bad ass, because, you know, when you go play with the kids, it's much better than St. Augustine.

St. Augustine's kind of crispy, gotcha. It's like a weed almost. Yeah.

I don't know a whole lot about Florida grasses, other than when I grew up in central Minnesota. You know a lot about Bermuda? I know a lot about golf. Which is Bermuda.

Yeah, but that's not something you're rolling around in. It's still not fun to roll around in. It still itches. Does it?

Yeah, absolutely. It's very soft. It's very soft, but it's also very delicate. It's not a soft assumption.

It's very inconsistent in the way it rolls. So this impromptu, uneducated, stupid podcast turned into an hour, is that what you're doing? Well, he's going to have to cut a bunch of things, so we're currently at like 46 minutes. No, we don't edit.

Greg's coming in, too. He's angry. Greg's coming in. We can just call it here.

Just call it here? Well, thanks, Casey. Thanks for coming back on again. I was ecstatic to be here.

This is a very interesting, real personal show. You're not ecstatic to be leaving. This podcast? Yeah.

You're right. But I didn't get any information that I wanted, which is kind of a letdown. I'm a professional. Well, when you have your show, you can interview Michael.

Yeah. I tried to have a show. Nobody listened to it. And they didn't come around.

They didn't come around. I didn't have an executive producer that knew technology. I didn't have microphones. I didn't have a blank piece of paper.

You're just not on my level. Blank piece of paper is so hard to find. I'm not on your level. But I appreciate you guys having me on.

You know, sitting around and bullshit with two other bullshitters is sometimes fun. Today was one of those days. Oh, I thought you said today was not one of those days. It's not one of those days.

I went with a positive spin to finish. That's nice. I like that. This is the professional side of me coming out to finish, to wrap it in, to pull it together.

And no, appreciate you guys having me. com. And we'll check out our new releases coming this fall. Crux Epicure Gallant, Mexican San Andreas Maduro.

And the new release of the Limitada IPCPR is now available. Where do you come up with those names, Gallant? I am not... That's the marketing guy.

I am not the creative. That is 100% known. I'm not a very creative person. It's all, you know, like the logo.

It's got a sword in it. It's kind of medieval looking. Will Nick Perdomo be going up to you for the Epicure anytime soon? Well, we own the trademark for Epicure, so he can try to...

So Crux Cigars owns the Epicure trademark. Which is why we had to use it before the 2016 deadline? So that's why we came out with that cigar in 2016. But no, we have no issues with that cigar, because when you own it, that trademark, you really don't have any issues.

Nice. But no, Mark and Jeff are the creatives. He's writing something on this naked piece of paper. Drawing and stuff.

Drawing and stuff. So, no, so the names are... Gallant? You know, the word Gallant, obviously I thought of it as Mitsubishi Gallant, because it was one of the first cars I remember my dad having, which was a white 1995 Mitsubishi Gallant.

I mean, I was nine years old at the time. He had something before that, but I don't really remember which car it was, probably a Dodge Caravan that we had, because we had six people in our family. But I remember that, but the word is, it has an elegant meaning, which I encourage listeners to go look up the word "Galant" and tie it into the elegance of a cigar, and that's where the true uniqueness of the Epicure Binder Filler will then connect with the Mexican San Andres Maduro Negro wrapper. Very nice.

Well, thank you very much for coming on the show. Thank you very much, guys. Appreciate you having me. You're a sweet, sweet man.

Cigar Hustlers podcast brought to you by Crux Cigars today, and our subsidiary advertisement, Pellegrino. Perfect. Perfect. This is the Operator with a collectible from Emma Retails.

To accept the charges, press one, now. All right, folks, that's it. Show's over. Thanks for listening.

You can send in any of your questions or suggestions for guests to a Cigar Hustlers podcast Facebook page. All right, folks, that's it. Show's over. Thanks for listening.

You can send in any of your questions or suggestions for guests to a Cigar Hustlers podcast Facebook page. You can follow the show on Instagram @acigarhustlerspodcast, you can follow Mikey @cigarhustler, and you can follow me @fcc_mike. Remember to please rate, review, and subscribe to whichever our providers you listen. It's spotters for certain families, they want to ride, cigarette boats, yachts, they know where we can't go, we in South Beach in the Hamptons too, baby, you know why they call a project a project?

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Show Notes

Casey Haugen of Crux Cigars sits down for a third time and becomes the guest that has been on the most!  One more visit and he gets a toaster!!

The show is a liittle more serious then most but still full of entertainment and knowledge!

You can follow the show on IG @cigarhustlerpodcast, Mikey @cigarhustler and Mike @FCC_Mike.

We welcome your thoughts, concerns, questions and guest suggestions on our FB page "A Cigar Hustlers Podast".  Please remember to rate, review and subscribe on whatever of our many providers you use!