Episode 55 Jack Torano & Hector Alfonso Espinosa Cigars

Episode Summary

Episode 55 of A Cigar Hustler's Podcast is recorded live from the Espinosa lounge with two guests: Hector Alfonso, Espinosa Cigars' factory man and Erik Espinosa's longtime right hand, and Jack Torano, who had just taken the job of national sales director at Espinosa after his very public departure from General Cigar/STG. The hosts open with a loose, profane riff on Hector's recent appearance on Cigar Coop's show with Skip Martin, then dig into the substance.

The meat of the conversation is Jack's story. He walks through how the Torano brand was acquired, why the marketing team never had "the warm and fuzzies" for it, and how the absence of any new product or innovation over two and a half years left him spinning his wheels selling the same Torano lines. He describes the STG "Fueling the Growth" reorganization, the trip to Richmond that ended with him being let go, and why — knowing what he knows now — he'd still do the General years over again as a kind of graduate school in big-company sales. Within an hour of being released he had a deal with Erik Espinosa, and he started at Espinosa on January 2nd.

The group also spends real time on year-end top 25 lists, with Hector laying out the data he's charted: roughly ten manufacturers who appear every year, three Cubans, another handful on multi-year streaks, leaving only about two genuinely open spots per list. They debate regional bias, event-only cigars taking the number one slot, and the "late release" bias Cigar Coop described as "Tabernacle syndrome" — the cigar equivalent of December Oscar-bait movies. Along the way they talk about Padrón, Guaimaro, Neanderthal, Ventura/Archetype and RomaCraft.

The back half is listener questions for Jack: his hobbies, what he's most excited about at Espinosa (including the possibility of finally blending a cigar, a collaboration he and Hector had planned back in 2014 before Torano was sold), and what Erik Espinosa could improve — namely traveling beyond the East Coast. There's also an extended, affectionate roast of Espinosa sales rep Danny Vasquez over limited-edition allocations and fantasy football, plus talk of how Cigar Hustler finally brought Espinosa in the day Jack joined.

In This Episode

1. 01
   Hector on the Cigar Coop / Skip Martin show
   The hosts rib Hector about his audio quality and lack of props on Cigar Coop's year-end live show with Skip Martin.
2. 02
   The problem with top 25 cigar lists
   Hector breaks down his data showing only about two truly open spots on most annual lists once repeat manufacturers and Cubans are accounted for.
3. 03
   "Tabernacle syndrome" and late-release bias
   The crew unpacks Cigar Coop's term for cigars released late in the year dominating lists, comparing it to December Oscar-bait films.
4. 04
   Why Jack Torano left General Cigar
   Jack details the Torano brand's stagnation under STG, the lack of new product, and the "Fueling the Growth" reorganization that ended his job.
5. 05
   Joining Espinosa Cigars
   Jack explains how he agreed to join Erik Espinosa within an hour of being let go, and how the move had been talked about for two and a half years.
6. 06
   Hector's role and the Espinosa family operation
   Hector describes staying on the factory side, why sales isn't his personality, and how the whole Espinosa family shows up for events like La Zona Palooza.
7. 07
   Erik Espinosa's strengths and blind spots
   Jack praises Erik's crowd-working charisma while noting he needs to cover more of the country beyond the East Coast.
8. 08
   Listener questions and the Danny Vasquez roast
   Audience questions for Jack plus an extended ribbing of rep Danny Vasquez over limited-edition allocations and fantasy football.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

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Transcript

Welcome to episode 55 of Cigar Hustlers podcast. This week we sit down with Hector Alfonso, Jack Tarraño of Espinosa Cigars. Okay, it's on. It's on.

Stop talking bad about people. What are you talking about? Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy.

We have to fucking talk bad about people. We have the two fucking fuck that guy senior presidents of fuck that guy here right now. And you're angry. I'm OK now.

No, you're very angry. I'm OK now. Shut up! I've never seen you this serious.

I know, he's all bent out of shit. Yeah, man, what happened? He's texting me, giving me a hard time all the way here. Did you get a ticket on the way up here?

Well, for one, I mean, you knew they were going to be here. Look, I had to go. I didn't have nothing. I opened a new account today, and then I left and came here.

Yeah? Mm-hmm. Was it worth it? Well, yeah.

I made money. I don't think you're playing the long game, though, Michael. I made money. I made money.

That's why it was a small opening. We have to be committed to the podcast. There's no money making on this yet. We don't have advertising.

You won't let us take advertising. Because we're not going to sell out to a cigar company. Anybody who would like to make a commercial, I can put it in. Brought to you from the Espinosa Lounge.

Oh, that's right. The Espinosa Studios. That's going to go over like a shit sandwich. Let's see.

Five, four, three, skip. No text. Hi, from the Espinosa Studios. So, to introduce, we have Hector Alfonso and Jack Tarana.

Are we already on? This is awesome! This is an intro later, bro. We just worked this shit in.

We're totally evolved. It's 2019, we're getting better. And now I actually have like a real legit angry co-host. You weren't here all fucking day.

You called me on the phone numerous times, you could have played it over the phone. Nope. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy.

Fuck you. So, okay, I mean, I got a lot of shit to address, we have a short amount of time because we got an event going on and we're fucking already, we just said fuck it, we just came back here and started doing it. He came back here and started doing it. Why are we late?

Why are we late? For a couple of reasons. For a couple of reasons. One being Palmer.

I'm with you, Pike. The only guy that knows how to run the equipment. So you know what? Next time I'm not even coming.

Ooh. Just hold it over your head until you paint it. That's fine. You can be replaced.

That's right. Yeah, this Mike show. You can replace me. I'll train a minion to hit the record button.

Can't do it. Hit the fucking red button. Mike's trying to be the straw that stirs the drink. Yeah.

He's trying to flex. That's right. You know, we can always say that we were here when they broke up at the beginning of the end. I was playing Yoko Ono that day.

All right, so now before we get into the, because, I mean, a lot has happened in Jack Trano's life. Since he was here last time. Like, which was just a few months ago. Like a month and a half ago.

Yeah, like a month and a half ago. Exactly. So, but before we get into that, I want to talk about a couple things. For one, the cigar coupe video.

Alright, I haven't listened to the entire thing, but I just want to say, you fucking sounded terrible. I sounded terrible? Like, you were a fox or something. Like, you really sell yourself short, because you were funny as fuck, but like...

Did you see who was on with me? Oh yeah, well, first of all, yeah. Did you see who was on with me? He even got a word.

It was Cigar Skip, I forgot, I apologize. You mean the Skip Martin show? Yeah, the Skip Martin show. First of all, he brought props.

Motherfucker had questions. He had props? He had a top 20 finalist? I even texted him, I go, this is some bullshit.

I tried to make a top 25 list of guys I hated, I couldn't get past Monado, I just had Monado, nobody else, it was, you know, that's one, I mean, I had nothing, bro, I had nothing, I had nothing, he had props, he had a top 25 list, and then they waited until like halfway through the show, and the Coop's telling me, you know, I got about 200 people live at one in the morning. You're damn right, because Skip was about seven beers in at that time, and he took control, I was in a hotel room at one in the morning, We're talking after like a 13-hour day, cheering Skip on and sending him messages trying to egg him on. Of course we're cheering him on because he says the things that we cannot say. He says what we all want to say.

We cannot say. Not that we don't want to say. But Hector, thank you though. You did mention our little show on there.

I love your show. Thank you. And somebody compared it to that other show. I never heard of that other show.

Which other show? Yeah. Not even important. Never heard of that guy.

The guy who makes a cigar that looks like La Bamba? Never heard of that. Only shorter. That's two.

I got to start strong, bro. This is a hardcore fuck that guy. We're going balls deep in this one, so. Yeah, I apologize for this listening.

I will come more prepared next time. I mean, like, I respect your opinion. I like to hear your voice on these things, you know? I have a good voice, right?

Yeah, you do. You have a voice for radio. It's beautiful. And, like, man, you know, first of all, Skip definitely sounded the best, better than Coop.

Yeah, he sounded better than Coop, too. Which is crazy. But, you know, we gotta get you, like, a mic set up or some shit. I'm going to buy some headphones, I'm going to make it look good.

We've got to do you right. For the next time I'll be ready. So all week in Phoenix, and I got it from two or three different, that I could be Skip Martin's brother, that I look like Skip. And I'm like, dude, I've never gotten that before.

I had no idea there were so many inbreds in Phoenix. I mean, Jesus, I don't know if I would say that to you, because you look nothing like-- Yeah, Mike went big. Mike fucked four million people up. He just fucked that guy to four million people.

Our orders are being canceled, though. Tell me about that great week you had in Phoenix. First of all, you look nothing like Skip, all right? Not even fucking remotely close.

Your flip-flop game isn't close. You know, I never see you in flip-flops. You're mine, bro. Yeah, you're not, you know.

No, sorry. Sorry, it's just not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. Now, the other thing that you said that I really have a question about was you were talking about one particular brand kind of dominating a top-25.

And you really didn't get to say your piece on that, and I know that like… Well, that was last year. That was in last year, and I talked about it for a minute, but I don't know where Skip took us from that. We were talking about the Top 25s, and I just, I have, you know, my beefs with the Top 25 list, I think is, regionalism has such a big part to do with this. I think some of these lists, some of these guys who get together and put a list and have a podcast, either they don't have a good DM in there, or they don't buy online, they're just, you know, It's hard to consider a top 25 list, or a top 10 list, when six of the list are from the same manufacturer.

Don't get me wrong, good cigars! But, you know, you don't get online, you've never, you know. Yeah, but like, so my counter argument to that is like, dude, for me, I would put a lot of shit that's Nikasueño on my list. You did on the list that we did.

Well, you don't, but they told me you don't do a list, you guys aren't doing a list. I do a sample under like Christmas time. I do like a legit 20. Dude, how about the fucking Degenerate Weasel Facebook page?

He didn't win his own face. What a slap in the face. They get soccer number one. He laughs about it, but deep down.

He should fucking close that site down. Demanded a fucking recount. And Danny got blamed for it somehow, which is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is great. Oh, shit, I wasn't supposed to mention him. Who's that? Is that him right there?

It's Danny. So, yeah, I don't, I don't, uh, no, that guy. So, yeah, I mean, but, so for me, like, I would, I don't know, I understand, like, the point is to, I don't know, like. Just pray the love around.

Yeah, I see that, but, like, I don't know, dude, Guaymaro, for me, is fucking awesome. Neanderthal is fucking awesome. Like, all right, but, like, forget about my own cigars, of the cigars that we make. But again, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, what do you call it?

Oh, God, it's subjective. Right. That's the word, subjective. Thank you, thank you, Jack.

Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, it's subjective, but. But it's, you know, on a top ten list. All right, let's say it is subjective.

There's not a Padron on that list? Okay. There's not a Hoya that seems to be, you know, or a Drew Estate. It's, you know, three from this guy and three from that guy.

Oh, they're all made at the same place. Come on, man. No, I get it. Yeah, Padron should definitely make the list regardless every year.

Well, you guys, if you're ever down in Miami, you've got to come by Espinosa. And this guy does these, like, he charts out the top 25, and when he breaks down the main list... You're starting to promote your Espinosa thing already? No.

Well, that's nice work, nice work, John. That's very slick. Espinosa. When he breaks it down, like the last seven years, what manufacturers are fighting for are like...

Two spots. Two spots. You're fighting for two spots. You're fighting for two spots, and he'll break it down.

I was like floored. A, that he took that amount of time to do this. But it didn't take that long, it didn't take that long, you know my thing, you know what I do for a living, so my thing is looking at data, I look at data, I'm like, this is easy, this is easy, look at this, and then I put them, and then you just see. You always have this, this, this, this, this, this, this.

And without getting into the specifics, because I know that's not, that's something, that's a no-go, ten that have been on six years in a row, ten, ten manufacturers, that leaves you 15 for the list, three Cubans every year. Right. Now you're down to 12. And then you have another seven to eight who are now on a mini streak three years in a row, four out of the last five years.

Right. So then you get down to two spots. Two spots. And that one year was Roma Craft.

One year was us. And then one year was, oh, the one that's made at Drew Estate. Willie Rare? No, no, no, no.

The one that's made at Drew, but it's for the guy in California. Fratello? No, it's for that company in California, the one that this guy, Giannini, went to work for. Ventura.

Ventura, I think, one of them was there, and then a couple of years ago was another one. Archetype. Archetype. You know, it's always that one, you have one or two, then everything else you can just, it's all a matter of slating, you just slide them here, slide them here.

Right. You don't have to be a genius. The numbers, when you put them out, it just, it reads itself. Anybody can do it.

And for every list, not just theirs. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, so...

And then another list had the number one cigar as an event-only cigar. Well, that's half of them. That's half of them. Yeah, I'll never taste it, I guess.

Unless you go to the Hoya factory. Maybe I can get in there. Alright, so, now, the other thing... Did you take notes?

No. He's always ready. I like to write shit. He likes to doodle.

He's super prepared. What the fuck is Tabernacle Syndrome? Coop mentioned that, like, three or four times in his spiel. Like, because of the fact that it's a new cigar that's going to make the list?

Or, I don't know... You know, he did say that. Yeah, so what the fuck was that? To be honest with you, I don't remember.

I don't remember a bit of that. Yeah. So, because, I mean... Oh, I know what it is.

It's almost, it's comparative to these movies that get released in December, and then all of a sudden they're eligible for the Academy Awards in February. Late release. Oh, gotcha, okay. And, you know, people go crazy.

Okay. If I'm not mistaken, that's what it is. Late release, and people go crazy, and you know, and boom, it hits all these lists. He says that there's a bias for those who come out in January, February, even March.

But I mean, I smoked that cigar at the show. It wasn't easy to steal one from Nick, but I did, and that shit was fucking awesome. And then I smoked it again, and that was a fucking great cigar. So to me, I think that it warrants being on everybody's top 25 list of shit.

I think he may have, he may have misspoken calling it a syndrome. I think we wanted to give an example of, everybody said, have you seen The Mule yet? I have not. But it's already up for an Oscar for this, an Oscar for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You know, so it's, you know, I don't know, I guess maybe it has more to do with the bias of cigars that are released later, compared to the ones that come out early in the year. I thought the greatest...

Well, they forget about them, like you said. Of course they do. Oh, Mike Palmer's here. Hey, Mike, nice to meet you on the board.

Alright, good day. Fuck all you guys. He's nice and angry. I like one of the bloggers and podcasters, he went online to Skip, or Skip was mentioning something about Not making a list.

" And you know what, not that I have to defend them because he really doesn't need anybody to defend them, but when has that guy not given somebody a cigar? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That smells bad. I call bullshit on that one.

When is that guy not giving you a cigar? Dude, the booth is fucking busy. I mean, I've been there for--I don't even know how many times I've been at the booth in Rome, but it's been a lot. But it's been a lot, and I can tell you, every single year, it's fucking busier, and busier, and busier.

This year was nicer because we had more space, you know, but... The lectern was a nice touch, too. The lectern was cool. Yeah, no doubt.

But like, I get it if somebody can... it's very easy to get missed there, you know. If you're not super aggressive, if you're not Jack Taranio stealing 700 Wieselitos from Danny, or some shit like that, I mean, don't mean to put you on blast. I got him directly from Skip.

But whatever, the fact of the matter is, you know, it's easy to be missed. Who's that guy you spoke about? Who, Danny? Oh yeah, no, we had a bit of a back and forth.

I'm not shy about it, we had a, you know, here's the thing. Who's this Danny we speak about? Look, let me, let me, right. The man who won't be mentioned, I guess.

He who is not mentioned. You know, well yeah, we don't. I don't know where we're going on that. Maybe I'll let that dive in.

All right, all right, all right. It's up to you guys. So I mean, well, we, so here's the thing. Here's the thing, I'll tell you, if you're gonna push, I'm gonna push back, you know, and I'm not, I love Danny to death, you know, but when he wants to break balls, I can break balls too, bro, you know, I'm not, I'm not scared, I love him, I love him to pieces, but, you know.

So what I was telling you out there was that Skip posted something about a Netflix show that, I guess it follows some guy that was trying to get a job or getting a job, and the guy's quote, and it's on the screen in his post, says that he went into the office ready to suck the guy's dick for the job. And I said, oddly enough, that's the same exact mentality Danny had when he went in to see you. Oh, man. He's going to block all of us from moving forward.

That's fucking... That's amazing. Wow. That's amazing.

Well, this has got to... So I guess we'll be dealing with John D. Oliver moving forward then. Shouldn't you be?

No, Danny's... That guy's got experience. Danny's Florida accounts. Is he really?

Yeah, he's my dude. He's my dude. So I won't be getting any limiteds this year, apparently, so... Or your own.

Yeah, or my own. No, I go right to the source for that. Yeah, he doesn't want you going over his head like that. He either takes care of you, or you go right over his head.

He's a good guy, come on. Right now, he doesn't have anything to do. You've got to catch him during fantasy football season. He's busy.

He's inundated. He's trying to manipulate the league. It's all love, Danny, it's all love. When he falls behind, he's got to boost his sales, and then all of a sudden, boom!

Tons of limiteds available. Tons of limiteds, sir. I think he negotiated with the guy that won was the trade guy. Oh, that's right.

Really? The one was the guy with the bogus trade. He won the league. The two teams in the playoffs.

And then Danny threw him a few extra t-shirts so he could keep the trophy. So I think Danny kept the trophy. Danny kept the trophy? Yeah, that's all he wanted, the trophy.

But he didn't earn it. No, no, no. That's a Milli Vanilli shit right there. What do you mean he didn't earn it?

He gave up two t-shirts and a Cro-Magnum. He bought that. You know, I'm going to make a concerted. A Cro-Case.

Unless you get us thrown out of the league today. I'm going to make a concerted effort to try not to draft on the same day that I drafted. It was hard. We were drafting in one league and drafting back at the same time, which is hard, but you know, the teams in the Super Bowl, 7-6 and 6-7.

No kidding. That's rough, man. They had one guy who just ran, he just, he put the whole dick to everybody the whole year. And he faded away?

Faded away, no. Yeah. It happens. It's crazy.

Fantasy football is crazy. So, Jack. Is there a band playing somewhere here? There's a dance to you next to your story.

I don't know if you're picking up on that, I don't know. I don't think the microphones will hear. Well, that's good. A little ambiance music.

Never heard of anybody. It's gentle. It's gentle. Is it turning to me now?

So what the fuck happened? Because, you know, man, if you go back a few episodes... If you go back a few episodes... It was Jack Taranio from Taranio, wasn't it?

Jack Taranio from Taranio. Jack Taranio from Taranio. And that quickly turned into no Jack, no Taranio. Yeah.

The greatest sampler ever put out. You know I gotta support my boy. I mean, fuck the bullshit. That was phenomenal.

You know? That was phenomenal. That goes without saying. Yeah.

The fact of the matter is that you sold that product, right? Right? You were the face for that entire image. And without you, there's nothing.

So no Jack, no Taranio. No Jack, no Taranio. There you go. That's all you got to say?

What was the question? So what the fuck happened? You know, listen, the writing was on the wall. They were, the Taranio, to cut a long story short, listen, the Taranio brand, when they acquired it, it was acquired by two guys, the president and one of the finance guys.

No one else knew about it. The running story is that when they acquired the Taranio brand, the president calls everybody into the office and he's got a bottle of $10 champagne and plastic cups and he's passing them out and he says, "It's time to celebrate, boys. " So they never had the warm and fuzzies. I was kind of hoping they would invest a little bit and give us some innovation.

No innovation, dude, a brand with no innovation in two and a half years is, you know, I predicted it early on that if we didn't have innovation, it would come a point where I'd be out there spinning my wheels. Right. And it was, the last six months after the trade show, Taranya was an afterthought. I was out there spinning my wheels and, you know, how many times can I go to the same store and sell fault green and blue and purple and yellow and, you know, it was a good cigar, great price point, but enough's enough.

What do you got new coming out? Right. You know, and we always thought there would be something new coming out. And there wasn't?

And there wasn't. It appeared, you know, it just kept getting pushed back, and pushed back, and pushed back. They never had the warm and fuzzies for the brand. So, the moment they made that decision to...

I'm getting texted by Danny. I've got Danny on live feed over here. He's the only guy in the chair. We love you, Dan.

" And they put out that press release that General would be, it was called Fueling the Growth. Or just Fire Jack Taranio. I solved the problem, and at the end of November, the fueling the growth came to fruition, and there's the chart, and there I am. I've made the final reorganization chart.

Right, that's what you told us when you were here. Yeah, so, you know, it gave me like a false sense of security. And then, you know, you're coming to Richmond, and all the brand ambassadors and the marketing team, and we're all going to have a great time, and we're going to talk about the future, and you're going to be more involved in your brands. " I was like, "What?

Absolutely! " Do you have any advance scheduled next week? Yeah, we gotta talk about this. So listen, I wouldn't, knowing what I know today, I almost went to work for Espinosa two and a half years ago, three years ago, you guys knew it, you guys were one of the few outside of that man right there that knew it, because I was here doing an event, and knowing what I know today, I would still go back and work for General, because it was like going to graduate school.

What I learned from that sales team and that ginormous company was really valuable to me in the new role I have now. So, this show's gotten too fucking serious, man. We gave you too much time to recoup and kind of regather your thoughts. I mean, we should have got you day after.

Oh, the day after? This would have been a different show. This would have been a fucking... Should have gotten the day the Bears lost.

This would have been an FTC show. Fuck that company. But once the dust settled, you know, and even the guy that let me go, I've always gotten along great with him, and unfortunately, I kind of went after him and really played into him with a lot of, you know, are you fucking kidding? And he didn't deserve it.

So we've since exchanged emails, and that's just not me, I don't want to hold a grudge, and I don't want to be a… The past is the past. Yeah, the past is a past, and, you know, when our past will cross again and, you know, shake hands and hug it out and, you know, and move forward. I had a great time working there, and it was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot, so... I was back here editing your show when, I think, Coop released the information, and I called Mikey in here and go, "What do you want to do?

" Yeah. I mean, that was pretty crazy. And then here I am. I mean, literally, that was December 18th, and January, you know, I was employed by General until the end of the year.

And January 2nd, I started with Espinosa. Alright, so now my next question is: who's in charge of who? He's in charge of me. Hector is the boss.

Hector is above me, absolutely. And he always will be. Hector's the man there. So there's a man there, Hector, Hector, Hector, if it wasn't for Hector, you know, then you'd have to deal with one of the nine Espinozas.

You know, we're gonna steal that shirt that our friend, the Rosales, Vázquez, Vázquez, Vázquez, we're gonna, in this shirt, it's gonna be, it'll say Espinosa, it'll say Alfonso Taranjo, Espinosa, Espinosa, Espinosa, Espinosa. But that's the family business, bro, that's how it is. Right. Yeah, absolutely, and they're all great, and they all play a great role in what they do.

Yeah, you know, but Hector is the glue that keeps that together there. Right, I appreciate that, but I'll tell you what, the good thing, you know, you say, "Oh my God, you step into this," but when it's all hands on deck, it's all hands on deck, an aunt, a cousin, a mom, whenever we, whenever there's an event, there's that Lozona Palooza, all hands on deck, and they all, there's a lot of, that family, I come from a small family, I have one brother, and my brother has special needs, so we don't have, I don't have nephews or anything like that. So to watch that family, the size of that family, the way they just pull their resources and they go, it's impressive. It's scary to me.

" Their family reunions are enormous. But I'll tell you, when we've had an issue, when we've had anything, a quick turn of events that we have, boom, everybody's there and everybody's all hands on deck. But to answer your question literally, realistically, Jack, my thing is always going to be the factory. As you can see, if sales fell under me, we would be selling mangoes over there on Bird Road by Havana Humidor.

Now come smoke with us. No, seriously. Sales is just, you have to have the personality. And there's one of two types.

There's that super aggressive guy and there's a super friendly guy. And I think that I'm neither one. Really? Yeah.

I think he said he's not sure. And I've had that argument with him for years. He mentioned it on the show he was on last night. Dude, I hang out with you.

I see your personality. You have it in you. Right. He just...

It's a lot of years of public service. They just, you don't want to... And it was funny. I said the story, Jack says, me and you are going to be friends.

And I'm like, this is like a bad episode of Oz. What do you mean? You and me are going to be friends, you know? We're going to get bunk beds and shit.

And it's funny, because when I came back from, when I first, I met him at Abe's event, I met him at Big Smoke, so I went over to make friends with the other Taranio. Right. And then he goes, that's not the guy you want to talk to, you don't want to talk to me, I'm the guy with a cigarist. And I'm like, watch out, Yaka, move out of the way, bro.

How you doing, buddy? Jack Taranio, nice to meet you. But no, Jack's responsibility there, I mean, he's going to have, and he's already giving us dividends. I mean, just his little short jaunt to the West Coast last week, and now spending some days in Arizona where we've really, we've matched our, we did last year in a week there.

No shit. No, it's going to be great for us. Well, shit, I mean, I took you guys on because of Jack, you know? I mean, I love you, and I was convinced at that point that I was going to take on Espinosa, but, you know, when he jumped on...

Well, yeah, and I told him, I said, two and a half years ago, when I was here, and I told you, you guys said, Well, the day you go to Espinosa is the day we bring it in, and you were true to your word. And I came up here to take my daughter to a soccer game, and I came and did the first show, I brought you some cigars, it's just, sales is not my thing. And even at that point, I was like, alright, I need to take on Espinosa. I think you asked him for a price sheet and never got around to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I never got around to it, what's that? Ask him what's in the cigar, don't ask me about how much it costs, I don't know. But, you know, I think he's gonna, look, where we've gotten in seven years is, we've gotten, as far as we've gotten, The notoriety that we've garnered in the last seven years is where we've gotten there strictly on Erik's shoulders. He needs a break.

Erik's been that fourth batter for us for many, many, for these last seven years. We needed a guy to bat behind him. So now we have a guy who can bat fifth behind him, can't pitch around there, and Erik can now hit Philadelphia and go where he's strong, and we can cover a little more of the country now. He can focus on his solid accounts, and then you can cultivate the others.

There are going to be events that are together, and I think the events that they go to together, they're going to be dominant. That's just my opinion. That's good stuff. We didn't want this event today to be dominant, so we didn't bring Erik.

That's okay. That's totally fine. I love Erik, you know. But, you know, you guys are my dudes.

Yeah, it was kind of funny because, you know, I got a lot of calls and it literally took an hour. I got let go and an hour later I was already agreed with Eric. And then he had to buy you a fucking cake. That was the second day, that was January 3rd.

That was the day too, I got to buy this motherfucker. He called me $37. And you know, we used to make fun of the... Say general.

We used to make fun of our Ferdy, he's smoking as much as Ferdy. Yeah, but I've been smoking my own stash. The Unsullied. The Unsullied.

The Unsullied. I've been smoking the Unsullied. I've been smoking the Unsullied. All the old bands off the other cigars.

Yeah, the UnBanded Cigars. The UnBanded. You see me smoking an UnBanded Cigar? You know what it is.

You know what it is. Yeah. I always used to hear the complaints about that other dude. What's his name?

Never heard of him. Yeah. I always used to hear the complaints about him, and it was like, you know, this guy spends smoking our most expensive cigar all day long, so I'm cautious about those things. I will eventually run out of my Unsullied cigars, and then I will start smoking.

And then we'll start making them shh. That's fantastic. But so I was getting calls like, "Oh my God, where are you going? " Anybody would have put two and two together.

I'm the only person in this industry that was welcomed at La Zona Palooza every year. You know, no other manufacturer, no other brand ambassador, no other anybody, you know, that's not Eric. Eric's not inviting other people to share in all these people he flies in here and come in here. Well, you're a likable guy, you know.

But I was always welcome, I've always had a great relationship with Eric and with Hector and with Junior, and so to me it was a no-brainer, you know, it was a quick turnaround. I've been happy this year, which is, you know, saying something, plus the fact that since he came on, I've got like 50 Facebook requests, I've got a purge again, I'm over a thousand again. You know, it's-- Something's going on. Everybody's getting them all of a sudden.

It was all that verbiage on Cigar Coop is what it was. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate it. Sorry.

That made you feel bad. No, it's not you. It's not you. It's just weird.

Not the rain on your brain, but everybody's getting them. We're all getting them right now. It's 'cause of this show. I was here on time.

It's all because of-- Shots fired. Damn. Damn. This is cold.

Hector's cold. I love it. I've got a free room to talk. I've got free range, buddy.

That's it. No, but I think, seriously, to put the cherry on the cake, this is, I haven't been this excited in a couple of years. Yeah. Because it just, it gets, I mean, this is a strain.

" And then it goes into like... And then it sets in. It was the same year we brought Protocol on. Then it's the can-sell years.

I can't tell you that I'm angry and angry. " Yeah, so, I mean, don't get me wrong, I owe everything to him because he's the guy who called me to come work for him, and he could have called somebody else. Right. Well, you answered, though.

And I answered the phone. We did that podcast. But the thing is that now I can see that now that I think we're kind of, we've got the momentum that we haven't had in a while, so I'm really excited about it. And I think he's excited.

There's no pressure. And he holds. And I'm telling you, I can't imagine. I feel pressure sometimes.

I can't imagine the pressure he feels. You know, we went a year and a half without having somebody to travel alongside. Not alongside, but as well as him. Right.

Well, more or less, you know. We did another show together. And the guy says to Hector, so it's been a while since you've had, like, a national sales director. And it's been, like, what, 14 months?

Yeah, I'm really, I'm really happy, man. Very nice. Very nice. Well, we can just cut it here if you want.

I mean, this isn't going to be-- We haven't talked about Danny. Danny's on hold, bro. He wants to-- We really need to find out, are we invited back for next season before we start talking shit? We should get a firm yes and then go hard.

I think they should rotate it out. Who else is going to be the commissioner of the Degenerate Weasley? It's got to be Degenerate Weasley. No, no, no, I don't mean the commissioner, but I think, I think, well, I think they should definitely rotate out the guy that won, Steve Vines, you invite him back.

He won. He earned his way back. How about the guy with the worst record? Who was that?

I think it was Bear Stein. Fuck that guy. You saw that? I threw it up.

He dunked it up. Bam! We've been practicing, man. We've been doing this for a couple of years now.

I'm the magic Johnson to fuck that guy. Did Barry end up winning a game? He won like three games. He got real hot at the end of the year.

Okay. Real hot? Three games? There you go.

He's on fire. He's on fire, baby! He's on fire! He's always real hot.

That's it, that... Jeez, Louise. So let's get on Danny Vasquez, that little limited-edition fucking extorter. Yes.

Yes. So he holds back limited editions, really? He holds them over his head, you know? He's breaking my balls.

If you kind of heckle him or joke with him, that's what he holds over your head. So, here, I'll tell you the whole story. All right, so, the Mastodon's coming out, right? " It's pretty much what he said.

" And so I said, "I just need one. I'll just fly out to Houston, and I'll cripple you with it, or some shit like that, you know, I just went fucking nuts. What kind of transportation arrangement do you need? I was like, here's the deal.

So then he's like, okay, so just the one box, like, you know what, make it a bundle, and I'll cripple you with that instead. So, you know, then it was kind of like dead air, then he opened back up, he realized that, like, you know, dude, if you're gonna fuck with me, I'm gonna fuck with you too, right? So, you know, he obviously came back after that, and we've had correspondence, and, you know, it was without a fucking beat, but, you know, the fact of the matter is, I'm not just, you know, I never knew. He gets butthurt real easy, because, I mean, we went, like I said on the last show, we went like a month, and then I realized, holy shit, I never responded to his last text, and Danny and I are fine, and I listened to the marathon show you guys did, I enjoyed it.

Yeah, which won't be tonight, unfortunately. Yeah, it was a real good show, and some of Danny's, I called them as I was listening to it, because some of his answers were phenomenal. Yeah, you told them the first half was great, the second half sucked. Did I?

Yeah. That's the way the ratings are. Oh, yeah, I actually did. I actually did, because the first half you guys were having fun and enjoying, and then it got real serious.

" So, I think what it turned into was, you know, we had to, he had to top the-- He was just stretching. Yeah, he was just stretching. Stretching the show. Stretching the show.

So, you know, he doesn't have a bunch to say. There's a little bit of a-- I mean, you know what, I think he has a lot to say, and he's funny as fuck, but like, I mean, two hours of stand-up fucking comedy isn't easily done. No. You know, you really gotta be, you know-- You gotta be on your game.

Right, fully prepared, you know, you gotta have props. You gotta have props, man, you gotta have props! And you gotta be able to ask people fucking questions. I got two words for you next year for that show, that end of the year show, PowerPoint.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, PowerPoint. And you need a headset, the whole fucking game. I'm gonna be hooked up. We're gonna get some of these little, the soundboard shit we have in the background.

Yeah, you gotta go with the headset, like Skip. You know, I didn't meet him until the show this year. I had known him for a couple years. Danny?

Danny, I'd never met him. He walked over, man, gave me a hug. You finally took the voyage? He took the voyage.

No, he came over, gave me a hug and shit, you know. Cool, man, he's a cool guy. He is. He is.

I relate to guys like that because he's the plug. Right. I, you know, Erik's always giving me shit. " Yeah, I heard.

" Because you know the guy, but I know the guy the guy goes to. You got the plug, man. The plug is where you always go. You always go to the plug.

On my phone, he's the plug. The plug. It's Danny the plug on my phone, you know? So, you know, I just wish he, we don't get a sense.

You only see him at the show. He came at the show. You know, I don't think he ever comes down to Miami. I don't think he ever comes down to Miami.

Well, he was here. He was here, but how far is this from Miami? He was on vacation. A four-hour drive, brother.

Well, we're gonna feel that later on. He etched about the two hours he had to do to come here. And he made it here because of his wife, Jessie. And if he comes to Miami, shit, we can take him to Puerto Rico.

How did he land Jessie? Jessie's a sweetheart, beautiful girl. She's very nice. Yeah.

You know, he's charming. Remember that women fall in love through the ears. That's it. He probably spits good game, dog.

Danny probably spits good game. He charmed her, bro. He doesn't show her that charm at all. He used it all up on her.

He was an acquired taste with me. He didn't charm me. If he comes to Miami, bro, we can take him to that Puerto Rican place, those two really good Puerto Rican places down in Miami. It's borderline racist, what you just said.

You know, if I go to Austin, they don't try to get me Cuban food. You mean, so when we took Tim Wong to eat Chinese, that was wrong? That was wrong. I knew that was wrong.

That was wrong. Longer shouldn't have had Chinese food? Our Chinese rep over there, we went to eat at a restaurant and he got all offended because they had avocado egg rolls. Tiananmen Square didn't bother.

That it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, so let me get this straight. All the human rights atrocities that your country is involved in, that's okay, but avocado egg rolls is where you draw the line.

That's it. That's where you draw the line. That's it. We had a good laugh about that, so we're going to put out a limited row.

The next wasabi is going to be the avocado egg roll. The avocado egg roll. The avocado egg roll. The avocado egg roll.

And the problem is, and you know, yeah, I'm, uh, I don't like Latins. You know, fuck, I'm a Spanish guy. Danny's Puerto Rican? Yeah, he's Puerto Rican.

Is he really? Boricua. Boricua. He doesn't even speak Spanish.

He does. Yeah, he does. Have you heard of Spanish? That's not Spanish.

That's better than mine. I can tell you that. Well, that's not saying much. Come on, bro.

And there's a huge Puerto Rican community here in Daltona. Here in Daltona, in Kissimmee, in Orlando, parts of Orlando, yeah. Mount Dora's the place I was telling you about in the car. I'm sorry.

Segway. Right. So. He wanted to go antiquing tomorrow.

Ooh. To Renegers? Why you gotta talk my business to people? Come on, you gotta put them on blast.

You gotta put them on blast. Hector will be pairing at Renegers tomorrow. Uh-huh. Okay.

Right again. That's the place. Never mind. I had one in the barrel, and I'm going to bring it back.

I'm going to bring it back, though. A shot across the barrel. I'm bringing it back, because you know what, I like you, but I had one right in the chamber for you. That's it.

See, see, you know, you hit him earlier with a fucking solid right here. Off the air. Off the air. I hit him off the air.

So have you two guys come up with a new five questions? Are you still going to say anything? No, man, we're done with that. We're done with the questions.

We only do the five questions with our new guys, and then we just kind of shoot the shit we do. You need something for the veteran. Do I get my jacket yet? I have questions from the audience.

This is three for you. You gotta be five. Five for the jacket. Five for the jacket.

We have questions from the audience. Some of the listeners put in questions. Oh, we just slid that out. Slid that out.

Oh, this guy's so prepared. I'm props. Crops, man. That's what's up.

Is that a printer back there? Yeah, is that a printer back there? Dot Matrix. I heard a brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr.

Alright, first question. Besides cigars, what are some of Jack's other passions or hobbies? Oh, you want me to answer that? You should answer that.

You want me to answer for it? You should answer for it. Antiqui? Well, he likes butterfly gardens.

That's nice. Go ahead and answer your own question, bro. I don't know, dude. It used to be golf, but I just don't have time for it anymore.

I used to love golfing, but that sport takes a long time. And, you know, when I'm not traveling, you know, there's a Wi-Fi I gotta attend to. Right. And now that movie app is dead, what the fuck do you do?

The what? You're doing the movie thing. Yeah, you were going to the movies for like $10 a month. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I almost killed the guy at the movies.

Yeah, that thing didn't last long, huh? No, I was like, oh, yeah. They lost their ass! Absolutely!

I went to, like, nine movies in two months and paid $10. Not anymore, now I got you, you got that fire stick, you hooked up, Blair. I hooked you up, dog. Yeah, that's what you want on the airwave.

I didn't know you watch French porn, that's cool, man. That's your own thing. Armenian smuff movies, man. Alright, so head on to the next one, Michael.

When there's a table full of cigars at a hearf, why does Jack collect all his own cigars before he leaves? That was a joke. Oh, was it? Yeah.

I would say for samples. I collect all my own cigars? Yeah, that's bullshit. Yeah.

Nobody gives away more cigars than I do. And somebody sent him a message in... In Chinese. Yeah.

Okay, what is the one thing you're most excited about joining the Espinosa Cigar Team? Sharing an office with me, obviously. Well, yeah, that's right up there, sharing an office with Hector. With Hector.

I have a little office, much smaller now than me and Jack are both in there. You know, listen, as much as-- Is the desk, like, facing each other, so you guys can just sit there? You want to hear the answer, or you just want to keep talking about it? Oh, shit.

Ooh, aggressive. I like it. Hell, I like it. Thank you, Matt Damon.

Wow, damn. How do you like them apples? Oh, dang. What am I most excited about?

You know, actually, what I'm most excited about, and my love of Espinosa cigars has been on for years, the same with my love of Roma Craft cigars, but getting back into this, Boutique world is really cool for me. I'm not made for corporate. You gonna blend a cigar? I hope so.

You know, listen, in 2014, September 11th, when the announcement went out that Taranio was sold, he had an appointment at the office because we were working, Erik had already come in, and the one thing missing from Taranio's portfolio was like a full-bodied cigar. And we were gonna collaborate with Erik, and Hector came in for one of the blend meetings, and the moment Charlie announced it, I sent Hector a message, Just do not show up at the office. You'll find out why later. You'll find out why later.

And so, that's something, you know, if not, if it can't be, you know, in the hopper this year, that's something we will look into is, it won't be Taranio Espinosa, but... It's gonna be the FTG. The Jackknife. The Jackknife.

Jackknife. He's gonna get a name. Trademark. I feel like there should be an FTG, like an addition, like a fuckin' LE of some sort.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, but then, you know, we'll have Danny distributed, and you won't get any. That's perfect, that's fine. No, well, it'll be based on a particular Espinosa sale, and then, you know, I'll be able to get...

You know, you're not pushing enough wasabi. Our candela's not moving that well up there, so I'm not going to hook you up. It's not going to happen, you can get the FTG, so, sorry. Anything else?

Alright, having known Eric for some time now, what, if anything, do you think he needs to change or improve on? Eric, Eric, and I've always said it, Eric has It. You know, you are at an event, and the people in that room gravitate toward Eric. Eric, for, you know, It can't be explained.

He's a storyteller. He's a storyteller. He does the most amazing card tricks. He's just, you know, he's a guy that people want to sit and talk to.

And he's everybody's friend. And it's just really cool to see him in action. What should he change? Right, change or improve?

Change or improve? He should realize that there's more of the United States than the East Coast. " When did I say that? I didn't say that, I don't remember.

" How do you remember that guy's name? He came to the store six years ago. Yeah, yeah. Right.

You can't remember what size we were going to do this. Hey, I've seen him in Texas a few times in all fairness. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

But I mean, listen, 70% of his travel is to the East Coast. Right. And he should spread out a little bit more. And, you know, I'm there to help with that.

But in the end, it's not Taranio. It's Espinosa. Right. And people are going to want to see Erik.

And Erik, a lot of people have heard about Erik at events and how great Erik is at events. They want him to come to Phoenix and so... He does something I don't think any other manufacturers does. He went to a multi-bender event and he went through all his stuff like in an hour.

" You know, the bigger the crowd, the more he thrives. The bigger the crowd, the harder it is for you to find me. Where's Hector? I'm just outside.

The bigger the crowd, the more he thrives. " No, I mean, I'm there for technical assistance. Technical questions. Alright, last question.

Did you call Mike, or did he call you to bring Espinosa to Cigar Hustler? Well, it was talked about two and a half years ago. Two and a half years ago, and then Mike was one of my first phone calls. Yeah, absolutely.

I couldn't tell you who called who. If you called me, then yeah. If I had to bet, I would tell you that you called to congratulate me. Right.

And that's what started the ball rolling. " And it was the day! It was that day. So, very cool, and much appreciated!

Dude, come on, you always have my back, I always got yours! And Miguel can't take credit for this sale. That's right! That's it, Miguel!

No, no, no, Miguel was the... I came here and hung out with these guys in the Durand days, like, seven times. And then Miguel, I bring Miguel, like, on the eighth time. We broke.

We cracked at that point. And Roberto says, ah, you needed Miguel to make the sale. I was like, you fucker. If you guys still want some Neas, they're still available on Cigars.

Buy one, get three. Do you have any Big Jacks left? Fuck it. For fuck's sake.

Somebody who takes these off my ass. Please. Are you having the discount bin? I don't have a discount bin.

I don't believe in that. There's other ways of being creative and shit. That's it. That was the last question.

That's it, man. That was all we got. That's all we got for the listeners. I think we should get back out there.

We left Greg in charge of the table. There hasn't been a single fucking cigar sold since we've been back here, just for the record. He's gone home to walk Uggie. No, that's not true.

He's out front pacing right now, fucking sweating, 'cause we're all back here. Jack said half an hour. What the fuck? We're 45 minutes in already.

We're 45 minutes in? 45 minutes in. Danny Vasquez, we love you, bro. We love you, bro.

Please bring us back. Thanks for bringing us back. We love you, too. Thanks for coming in again, guys.

I love Frenchie a little more, but... Alright, I love you, too, Danny. Fuck it. I haven't met the new guy.

I guess I'll meet him at the show. You haven't met John? No. Oh, he's a good guy.

I don't know. You guys travel. John, here! When he was with Zykar, we had a breakfast at Kenny and Ziggy's in Houston.

And we laughed a lot. And I think that's one of the first times I met John. And then when you're in Houston and it's multi-bender events going on, Yeah. You have, everybody's at Stogie's.

Right. All night long, which is where I pitched the original collaboration to Skip at four in the morning. That's the way to do it. Yeah.

At Stogie's. So. John used to be, was a customer of ours before he got into the industry. So.

He's a good dude. That's all I got. Okay. I don't know, I've never met him.

Yeah. Because you're fucking angry over there today. Yeah. You're not on your game today, man.

Look, the bathroom's clean, go rub one out and come back, all right? We'll come out and come back, all right? For fuck's sake. Okay, everybody, hold on one second.

Again? I have these hot ninja photos, I'll send you. There you go. The old French porn?

The French porn porn? No, it's the... All right, so that's it. That's it.

All right, everybody, thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.

This is the Operator with a collect ball from... To accept the charges, press one, now. Okay, that's it, kids. Show's over.

Thanks for listening. As always, the guys welcome your comments, ideas, and show suggestions, and you can send them to our Facebook page at @CigarHustlerPodcast. You can also follow the show on Instagram @CigarHustlerPodcast or follow Mikey @CigarHustler and follow Mike2 @FCC_Mike. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe on whichever podcast provider that you listen on.

Thanks again. Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike Squared, Mike Squared.

Show Notes

This week two of our favorite guest come in on the same day!  Jack Torano and Hector Alfonso from Espinosa Cigars!

Sit down and listen to the first podcast version of FTG!  See how they turn on "Mike Too"!  Things get ugly quick!

As always we welcome your thoughts, ideas and suggestions on our Fb page "A Cigar Hustlers Podcast".  You can follow the show on IG @cigarhustlerspodcast, Mikey @cigarhustler and Mike too @fcc_Mike.

Please remember to rate, review and Subscribe on which ever of our many podcast providers you use!