Episode 65 Black Hog and Shamrock Knives

Episode Summary

Episode 65 of A Cigar Hustler's Podcast brings two Florida custom knifemakers into the lounge: Chad Bolin of Black Hog Knives and Jim Morrissey of Shamrock Knives. The two share a forge in DeBary, Florida and walk the hosts through how each got started — Chad after a lifetime of being told nobody makes knives anymore (he built a brake-drum forge on a rolling cart and hammered out "the world's ugliest butter knife" around his 30th birthday), and Jimmy after discovering, ten years into a working friendship with Chad, that his buddy forged blades and essentially never leaving the shop.

The bulk of the conversation is a genuinely useful look inside small-batch custom knifemaking: how a maker prices work honestly against labor, materials and reputation; why every blade gets tested before it leaves the shop (including a 52100 chef's knife that snapped during heat treat); care and maintenance for high-carbon Damascus (light coat of mineral oil, and never, ever the dishwasher); and why transparent communication about a four-month backlog matters more to customers than speed. They also discuss output — roughly 60 to 100 blades a year as a side hustle alongside full-time jobs — and the realities of shipping blades internationally now that the UK has tightened carry laws.

Cigar-shop listeners get the story behind the 400-layer Damascus blade Chad hand-folded over six days and gave away at the shop's Powstanie event, plus a preview of the next commission: a Scottish dirk-style short sword with a forged fuller, brass guard and pommel, thru-tang and custom layered handle, tied to a national Powstanie marketing push. The pair also reveal their new joint venture, Black Shamrock Forge, and plans to branch into bottle openers and steel cigar ashtrays.

The standard five questions round things out, with talk of grandfathers and union tugboat men, dream collaborations with Bob Kramer, Steve Schwarzer and Neil Kamakori, Bowie knives, Ulfberht Viking pattern-welded swords, and Jimmy's admission that the Powstanie Habano is the only cigar he smokes at the shop — after learning the hard way it's not just a "house blend."

In This Episode

1. 01
   Cold Opens and Shop Talk
   The Mikes catch up on marathon recording sessions, the Skip Martin/RoMa Craft episode, gym rowers and household diplomacy before bringing the guests in.
2. 02
   How Two Knifemakers Got Started
   Chad Bolin's brake-drum forge origin story and Jim Morrissey's accidental entry into the craft through a decade-long work friendship.
3. 03
   Pricing, Testing and Honest Craftsmanship
   How labor, materials and reputation set a custom blade's price, and why every knife gets tested — including one that broke in heat treatment.
4. 04
   The 400-Layer Damascus Powstanie Giveaway Blade
   Six days of hand-folding steel for the event knife, plus mineral-oil care tips for high-carbon Damascus in a humid cigar shop.
5. 05
   The Next Commission: A Scottish Dirk Short Sword
   A foot-plus blade with hand-forged fuller, brass guard and pommel, thru-tang and layered custom handle, backed by a national Powstanie marketing campaign.
6. 06
   Backlogs, Customer Communication and Shipping Blades
   Four-month wait lists, weekly progress photos, and the headaches of international knife shipping under new UK carry laws.
7. 07
   The Five Questions
   Dream cigar companions, dream knife collaborations with Bob Kramer and Steve Schwarzer, best advice received, and favorite cigars.
8. 08
   Black Shamrock Forge and Cigar Ashtrays
   The two makers announce a joint collaboration brand and plans to forge bottle openers and steel cigar ashtrays.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

Welcome to Cigar Hustlers podcast episode 65 this week we sit down with Chad Brolin from Blackhawk Knives and Jimmy Morrissey from Shamrock Knives. Everybody enjoy the show. hello mr. Michael how are you hello Michael it's been so long since we've done one yeah so if we do like a three-hour one like that one we'll break it up yeah I got no break it'll be no break yeah I mean, we just did one, and this one will air either before or in the middle of, or whatever, from Skip from Romacraft.

We went until 2:30 in the morning. It was a fucking... Well, I mean, if it goes that long, you don't realize it, at least then you know it must be good, at least good to you. Oh, no, we knew.

I felt like I realized at the last hour, I could tell you that much. " You started yawning. Yeah. Very rude.

Yeah, I know, I know. Well, I took a nap before this one, and I got my little monster going, so I'm ready to go. I got a little monster going, so I'm ready to go. Good deal.

I lost my belt, Michael. Your belt that holds your pants up? Yeah, I don't know where the hell it is. Your brother's just bought four of them, so.

Yeah, he's, you know, well, he's super bougie. Those medians. I'm fucking married with kids, so I just got the one belt. So I don't know where the fuck it is.

Some rope like Jethro from the Hillbillies. Hmm. Oh, your phone rang and then it didn't ring. Sorry, I just texted my wife.

I got a couple other little things to talk about before we introduce our guests. I got a show update and things like that. Well, I wanted to start by saying you, my friend, you're a pretty funny guy. Well, thank you.

You know, we were listening to some of the podcasts on the patio. It's my job here. And I mean, you run me over a lot, but you're still pretty funny when you do it. You know, but Skip wanted me to run him over when he was here.

Yeah. Oh, you're going to jump to one of my next statements. Oh, sorry, sorry. You know, what's the deal with that?

Like, when we get some of the titans of the industry in here, you fucking shut up real quick. Being respectful. You don't say anything. Man of his caliber.

Yeah, you did the same with Caldwell, though, too. Well, I've never met him before. I was just listening to his story. Felt weird interrupting him.

You, I don't mind. Eh, hell. Who cares about you? Yeah, you shit all over me.

You're pretty funny when you do. Wait, though. I got this thing, though, now. I've been watching Boston Legal.

Have you ever watched Boston Legal from the 2000s? Yeah, like a hundred years ago. Right, right. Well, I'm watching the reruns now.

Okay, you know, William Shatner's got that character on there, Denny Crane, I had to look at my notes, I forgot the name, but he's got onset of Alzheimer's, so he forgets things, so when he doesn't know what to say he just says his name, Denny Crane, so now if I don't have anything to say, I'm just going to say my name. You're going to say, I'm Mike Palmer? Just Mike Palmer. And I'm Mike too?

No, I'm just going to say Mike Palmer. When you turn to me, I have nothing to say, I'm just going to go Mike Palmer. So my gym workouts have been getting kind of out of control. No more cold plunging?

No, well, I didn't go this week, but I got to get back into the cold plunging. So I bought a rower at the house so I could space out between weight lifting and cardiovascular. I don't know how expensive those are, but a guy in my neighborhood is selling a canoe. Yeah.

Wouldn't that be the same thing? I mean, necessarily, I don't know where I'd put that. Well, there's two lakes in my neighborhood. I'll keep it at my house.

Oh, and just row around there? Just come over there and row around the ponds. It was perfect, like 9 o'clock at night, have no issues? Well, there's an alligator in there, but same with your.

Well, I bought the rower and I didn't tell my wife that she was pissed off. You didn't think she noticed the giant piece of equipment in the middle of the living room? Yeah, no, I thought she noticed, I didn't think she'd give a shit. Is it in the kitchen?

I mean, where else, where did you put it? I put it in the garage and I busted out when I needed to use it. Oh. But yeah, it did not go over that I thought, as well as I thought it would.

Would you think she would just jump right on and be ready to go? " And she said that today! Yeah, see, that was the reaction I was expecting instead of, yeah, it was a big trouble. Big trouble.

Probably other things that she wanted. So there's a job application for a job at Roma Crafts. Yeah, we talked about that already. We did?

Has anybody taken the job? Yeah, I think I know who they're gonna hire. Is that why Greg's not here today? Yeah, Greg's gone.

Greg left. There you go, that's why. My brother, you know, I'm trying to be nice, he's his own man, he's his own man, but wait, can I say something funny about your brother, go ahead, he had to run an errand the other day, he asked me to come with him, so we went and we went and got his Stingray holster, went and checked on his jeep that's broken that hasn't worked since a day, bought it, and then we went by to check on his gold-plated steak knives, or whatever he's got, the guy. Yeah, he's making here.

Right. He's very bougie, your brother. Well, I mean, since you're kind of already converting into that, you guys want to introduce yourselves? Well, see, it's called a lead-in, Michael, in the industry.

That's a technical term, it's a lead-in. It's a lead-in. Yeah. You're so good.

Hold this guy's hand through everything. I'm Chad Bolin, I'm with Blackhawk Knives. I'm Jim Morrissey with Shamrock Knives. So, how did you guys get into fucking making knives?

Oh, Lord. Who wants to start? Do you want to start, or do you want me to start? I've been going a lot shorter at it than Chad has, so my story's shorter.

I just like knives. Right. Certainly, of course, like most other people love that show, Forge and Fire. Right.

" I'm like, "No. Really? " And I never left. I went over to a shop a year ago.

I live here now. That's it, I didn't left. He gave me a key, and he screwed up, so. No, that's how I got here, I got a key.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. So you know exactly what we're talking about. No, I never left. No, I have my own studio downstairs.

So you use all of the same materials that Chad has? Yeah, we've invested in some tools now together, larger, like, presses and stuff. Oh, that's kind of like his podcast. Yeah, yeah.

There you go. He got lucky. He came in, and he got to see, like, the years of equipment that I had already built up. " Right.

I don't need the grinders anymore. I don't need the forge. Okay, well, what do we need left? Oh, let's just get the forge press now.

Right. So you decided just to get into it. You're like, fuck it, I'm going to start making some knives. Yeah.

He already had the equipment. You just kind of slid right in. Yeah. Okay.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. A lot easier than my story. So yeah, so what happened to you?

What made you decide to get into making knives? Man, I had wanted to make knives probably since I was five. You know, like a lot of people who make knives, they see the original Conan with Arnold Schwarzenegger when they were a kid. Like, I'm going to do that.

And I was the same thing. I'm like, I saw them making the sword at the beginning. I'm like, I'm going to do that. And everyone told me, nah, you're not.

No one does that anymore. So, you know, repeatedly years and years. I was like, you can't do that. And, you know, I got fed up with it around 30th birthday.

Heard it one more time. He's like, what do you want to do for your birthday? He's like, I want to go up to Arkansas and take that two-week course at the American Bladesmith School. And they're like, nah, well, you can't really do that.

And I said, you know what? Fuck you. Got up, walked outside, I'm gonna show you all wrong, so I went and built my first ugly forge on a rolling cart and, you know, brake drum like a lot of people do and just proceeded to make the world's ugliest butter knife. Yeah?

You still have it? Oh yeah, I still have it. Backwards? Yeah, it's backwards, I forged it backwards.

What? Talk into the microphone. I am. If you turn your head sideways, you still have to talk to the side.

Stop yelling at me. You have to talk to the side of the microphone. You're always yelling at me. I don't like your tone.

Okay, so you still have the original knife? Oh yeah, I still have the original one, that one and the second one, so I can show, I show people, I started, I keep them as an example. Right. I started teaching classes and so forth.

I tell everyone, say, "Hey, these are the first two knives I ever made. " And because, and everyone's knives look better than mine, my first two. Right. Because they were ugly.

" Yeah, that's how I learned how to podcast. Yeah, that's how I learned how to install a toilet. Yeah, and then like 10 minutes in, you're sitting here like, what was the next thing? What are I going to do?

It looks so simple when they did it. Why can't I do this? Yeah, I think those videos are rigged. They look so easy when they do things.

So who was the person that pissed you off the most when you said, "You know what? " Oh, my ex-wife. Your ex-wife. " So were you married at the time?

Yes. Yeah. Very nice. And, uh, well, hey, you know, so there's some kudos there, you gotta say, you know.

Well, yeah, I guess you could say it's like she's just driving me to success, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give her that credit. Don't give the ex-wife credit. Never give the ex-wife credit. I only have 25% of my shit left over here.

Yeah, Mr. Palmer has like seven ex-wives. Two, two, just two. He hasn't figured it out yet, so.

Oh, okay. But, God willing, this is the last one. Cheaper-to-keeper, right? Well, at this point, he doesn't have anything.

He doesn't have anything. I got nothing. See, it doesn't matter. She knew that coming in.

Yeah. So if she, you know, she wanted half of nothing. Sure. If she wants to leave now, she just takes her own shit back with her.

Right. And you go take that. Well, who gets the dogs? Well, I get the new one.

Because you couldn't handle it? Because the boxer? No, because he's become my dog. Personal investment in the dog now.

It's staying. It's mine. So, you have your own shop. Yep.

You build your own knives. I mean, I'm going to kind of lead into you, you actually went ahead and made some cool, a cool ass night for us, but before that, like, so what do you do, do you have a regular job, or? Yeah, I still have a regular job. My actual job is I am a project coordinator for fire suppression systems.

Okay. So, most of what I do is for data, telecommunication, and government contracts. And that's how I met Chad. I'm a manager for a large cable company.

Okay. And I've worked with him doing our fire suppression systems for over 10 years. So, and then you became besties. That's it, yeah.

He just showed up one day and said, I live here. I love you. And I said, look, I just had to accept this. It wasn't weird.

I have to accept it. It's okay. I mean, he cuddles. He's nice.

So, how many hours did you put in your regular job? 40 hours? 50? I wish as many as they tell me I'm salary.

Yeah, he's got that boat. Mine, fortunately, in my area, I'm on a large contract, so it's just down to like 45, 50 hours, but it's out of town. Oh, shit. Yeah, so I get the pleasure of working out of town for most of the week, and I come back and I have to fit all the forging or classes I have into like a day or two.

So you teach people making knives, and then you make additional knives, right? Mhmm. Right? Fuck, man.

Do you have kids? Yes. How do you find the time for them? It's hard.

Right? It's hard. Sometimes you just take a weekend off. Like last weekend, I just took it off and said, "You know what?

" We went to the west coast of Florida, hung out at the beach, had a few days just to spend it with the family. Didn't do anything knife-wise. So how long have you been making knives? I've been making knives for, actually, the 26th of this month, April 26th, will be seven years.

Seven years. Wow. No shit. And then you just stumbled?

Do you carry a really cool knife with you every day? Yeah, I used to, but then my company told me, it's like, you know what, you really can't carry a knife like that around, you're kind of making people nervous. Really? And not a person ever said it made them nervous.

Usually every person is like, "Dude, where'd you get that? " I made this. This is mine. Yeah.

HR got a hold of you. Yeah, that's what it is. That blade's a little bit longer than three inches, and I'm not going to accomplish cutting anything with a three-inch knife. Exactly.

But I have to stab the HR person. That's me. I didn't say that. Don't condone it.

Full disclaimer. Whatever you do with your knife made by us, whatever you do with your knife made by us does not count after you reach the parking lot with this knife. So you made a badass blade for us that we gave away at the Posani event, which was a Damascus steel, right? Yeah, it was over 400 layers of Damascus.

Damn, man, that's crazy. And how long did it take you to make that thing? That one, that was before the forge press, so every layer was folded by hand. It took me four days to fold the steel.

It took a day to finish the knife, and a day to, sorry, a day to finish Forge Profile, and another day to do the handle work on it. So, yeah, I had six days in making that knife. No shit. Yeah.

Wow, and now some guy just has it. " So, I mean, like, how do you determine the value of something like that? Labor. Right.

I mean, obviously, cost of materials. Yeah. I mean, that's something super labor intensive. Of course.

Yeah. I mean, you're talking... But there are some dudes that have specialties that have been in the knife industry, right? And they charge a fuck ton of money.

Oh, yeah. Your name can generate a lot of the cost. Your name, you know, fit and finish, specialty, everything like that. It honestly comes down to where you have to be honest with yourself and look at the product that you make and look at where you are with other knife makers.

and try to see, do I make a product that is as good as theirs, or is it not? You can't just, it's one of those things that don't bullshit yourself, because if you do, you're going to sell it to a customer who did buy it for the price you put out. It's not worth that, and a lot of building up your company as a knife maker from the startup is by word of mouth, is by actually using the product, using the blade, seeing how it is. And if someone's like, oh, I bought this for like $300, it's like, that's not a $300 knife.

They all know, it's like, oh, this guy's way overcharges. You pretty much get like one chance with a customer on a high purchase, like a chef's knife or something like that, so you have to be honest with yourself. Right. Everything we make is tested, and we have some testings that go wonderful and some that don't.

Right. He woke up to a message from me at five in the morning with a chef's knife broken in half. It happens. It broke during heat treatment.

No kidding. It was just a new type of steel that I haven't worked with before. Right. So it's not valerian.

No, not valerian. It was 52100, and just trial and error, and it was error, so... It's one of those, like, oh, I guess... A little bit of labor just went out the window, but I'll make it again.

It's kind of a learning curve, though, right? Yeah, it's just getting used to it, but that's why we test everything. Right. You know, I won't send anything out of the shop that hasn't been, you know, tested.

You charge him rent? Do I charge him rent? Yeah, I charge him rent. I can't tell you what the price is, though.

It's like beer or some shit? Yeah. That's awesome. Just right off the bat.

Just right off the bat, it's like, I want two sets, I want this and that and that, how much? It's like, whoa, there's a whole lot of questions and answers, I gotta go in this before you get a price. Oh, that's Greg for sure. And nothing mixes better than coming and having beers before you go make knives.

Right, of course. Super, not a dangerous thing at all. Yeah, highly recommend it. It was a great time.

So you're making a set for him or some shit, too? Yes, I am making a 10-piece set for him, a chef's knife, utility, pairing, fillet knife. Let's see what else, um, he wants like five steak knives, he wants like a larger kind of like a fruit knife. He doesn't like people to come to his house, what's he gonna do with five steak knives?

Oh, oh, his, uh, the engraving that he wants on it is even better, he wants, do not put this in the dishwasher, I will fucking kill you with it. That's what he wanted for an engraving on these knives, I'm like, hey, if that's what you want, then we can work it out. Never put your knives in the dishwasher. Yeah, don't do, yeah, do not, do not put your knives in the dishwasher.

So we had to oil the Damascus blade that you gave us, right? Yes. So how long did you have to do that for? Forever?

Well, it's always a good practice to oil them. I mean, that one, it's not stainless. It's not stainless Damascus. It's a high carbon Damascus.

Right. So you put some mineral oil in it, like light coat and so forth, and you do that just to protect the steel. Right. But I mean, if you're not putting your hands on it a lot or you're not using it, like outdoor-wise or so forth, or like cutting meat or things like that, you're pretty good with it.

But, you know, just keep it clean, keep it dry, light coat of mineral oil, that's just basic knife maintenance. And we weren't really sure if being in the shop with, you know, you have the humidor and different humidity levels and, you know, we just, more safe than sorry, just put the oil on. And we didn't know if it was going to be covered or not, so it's like one of those, like, I don't know if people are going to be touching it. But we didn't know if it was going to be covered.

Yeah, it's like, one, it's very sharp, it can shave, it does shave, and two, if you start putting your fingers on it, all the oils and everything from your hands, get it on the steel. It's high carbon steel, it can cause it to rust. No shit. So he strolled in one day, said, you're about to make some knives, and then you're like, okay, cool, this is a cool spot, and then he fucking yoked you into making some knives for the shop as well as making some knives for himself.

Yeah, he's like, oh man, it'd be great to have a blade for like a Pistani event, and then, of course, anyone starts saying like, I want something cool, and my head just can't be like, well, I can just make you like a camp knife, I'm like, hmm, what sounds like way over the top and way labor-intensive to make. So, you're going to make a second knife for us, too, right? Yes. We already started that.

Yeah, we already started that one. So, what kind of knife is that? I know we talked about it. Yeah, this is going to be somewhat like a Scottish Dirk.

Right. But it's going to be pretty much like a short sword by the time it's done. The blade is over a foot long already. No shit.

It's going to be a thru-tang, and custom handle is going to layer the handle through itself, brass guard, brass pommel. No kidding. We're going to hand forge in the fuller, or what some people call the blood groove. Right.

Yeah. The blood groove. Yeah, the blood groove. It just sounds so good.

Well, I mean-- But this is my blood groove. So for that knife, what we want to do is we want to kind of give you a little more exposure and also give the brand, the Powstanie brand, you know, more attention as well. So we're going to do like a whole marketing campaign on a national level. Okay.

Which I think will be pretty badass. Yeah, Greg had kind of mentioned, like he had teased a little bit about it, but we didn't talk about that too much. " Yeah, I was unfortunately dead on that day, so... Yeah, I heard you were a little under the weather for a while.

" So I just went right back to bed. Yeah, I didn't think I was making it here today. Yeah? He's like, I shouldn't make it, but I'm not missing it.

Kidney stones are no fucking joke, dude. No, at this surgery, I don't wish it upon anyone. Absolutely. You want to ask the questions, Mr.

Michael? We can do the questions, sure. We've got to listen to the podcast. We have these five questions we ask everybody.

All right. Are you sure that they listened? They said they did. They showed us the apps on their phone.

Well, maybe they listened the first 10 seconds. And then they didn't hear anything but the intro. Right. It's an awesome intro.

It's an awesome intro. I really like the horns. Just digging it, man. Alright, what one person, living or dead, would you like to share a cigar with?

I'd say a man I didn't get to meet, my great-grandfather. My grandfather had an integral role in raising me and taught me a lot, but his father started a union up in New York, part of the ILA. You know, my whole family worked on tugboats, and from what I hear stories, that man would be somebody I'd love to sit down and be able to bullshit with over a cigar, and probably a whole bunch of whiskey. Right, alright.

That's a good choice, man. I really set the bar for you there. You can pick his grandfather, too, if you want. You know, that would almost be pretty cool.

" We don't talk about those guys back in the 1950s and '40s. Man, that'd be pretty cool, man, that kind of stumped me a little bit, living or not living. It's probably me, isn't it? I'm here.

Yeah. Hey, look at that. Look at this. It's already done.

Mission accomplished. All right, we'll go to the next question. Yeah, I'm going to have to think on that. Just give me a moment.

And I'll parlay that question to you, since you guys are knife guys, is there anybody, living or dead, who you'd want to make a particular knife for? Oh, I like that. Right? Works with the knife, the next one's even better.

Currently, my favorite guy currently, Neil Kamakori, is a knife maker out of Hawaii. Okay. He was on that show, Forged in Fire, only was making knives for like seven months, and he is a huge. I mean, he's just an unbelievable talent that this man has, and super humble, I mean, I've listened to a bunch of podcasts that he's been on and things, I mean, super amazingly talented man, and I'd love to be able to go and make a knife with him or learn from him.

Okay. I would love to make a knife with and for Bob Kramer, he's an ABS master smith whose specialty is chef's knives and cutlery. So he came up with one, I don't think he, he may not have pioneered it, but he did learn one of the ways to make Damascus out of meteorite. Oh, shit.

Wow. Yeah, so he makes Damascus blades out of meteorite, and he was, I believe he learned a lot of his, a lot of his skill set and everything for Damascus, is an ABS Smith who lives here in Florida, Steve Schwartzer. So he's, I've actually got to hang out with him, I'd love to make a blade with him too. But he's nailing him down, this is a hard thing, so it'd be, man, that'd be a toss up, it'd either be Bob or Steve.

Meteorite sounds expensive. Oh yeah, it's expensive, it's not cheap. How does one obtain a meteorite? You go out at night, you wait and watch it fall, then you drive around and pick it up.

That's cool, this is one of the fucking binoculars. I hope it's not, oh wait, could you make a nice photo of them? I'm pretty sure Amazon sells them, you know, probably. But again, two days, god damn it.

They got it, they got it. Is that Prime? Yeah, is that Prime? We'll put it in the locker for you, go pick it up.

Well, we'll just change the next question too then. Okay. What one person, what one fictitious person would you guys like to make a knife for? Cengiz Khan, if you say his name correctly.

Really? Yeah. I thought you said it wrong, but that's how you say it? Yeah, it's Cengiz Khan.

Oh, Cengiz. Yep. The Mongol, the man, he united the Mongols and almost took over most of the known world at the time. If he hadn't passed away, they would have done it.

He was a brilliant military tactician. I'd love to make a blade for him. What's it say? If you trace back everybody's DNA, everybody's sort of related to him in the same way.

You probably have a little bit of the con in you. He was not shy about that. Well, that's a tough one. I love Bowie knives.

I mean, I'd love to make one for old Jim Bowie. Boy, that would be a pretty cool knife. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, we actually just did a buoy-cookery hybrid a few weeks ago.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Who was-- Very unfortunately, the man that I made that for is one of my very close friends, and he just passed away yesterday. Oh, man, that sucks. Did he leave the knife to somebody?

No, his wife hasn't, because she contacted me to let me know that he passed when he was in an organization that I'm in. Was it kind of unexpected? Yeah, it was a motorcycle accident. Damn, that sucks dude.

That kind of brings us down now. Thanks Jimmy. Alright, best piece of advice anybody ever gave you? Don't get hit on a motorcycle.

There you go. Probably go back to my grandfather, you know, don't take shit from anyone. Right. You know, and I don't.

I take shit from Mike Palmer every podcast. Every day? What do you mean just podcast? It's true.

At least it's documented on the podcast. But, I mean, you benefit from it, right? Of course. Yeah, there you go.

I'll take shit if I'm learning from it, yeah. If it's a learning experience, sure, just, you know. I don't think I'm learning anything from them. Oh, I certainly am.

Hey, this video's nice, but can you make, like, spinning things come into the pictures? How do we change that? Holy shit. That's what, hey, you're the producer.

I'm just learning. You're producing. So, what about you? Probably from my dad.

My dad had this mentality of pretty much like, "Fuck the system. " Right. So, my dad is the epitome of the underdog story his whole life. So, he kind of instilled that in me, too.

He's like, "Everyone told me I couldn't do these things, and I did them anyways, so you don't have to follow the status quo. " So, he gave me that advice, to be my own person. So, what'd your dad do? Yeah, my dad is a former, it was before Rangers or anything like that, he's a Vietnam veteran, but a lot of missions that are one of those that still are not declassified yet, he was part of the last mission to go over to Iran during the hostage crisis was in the late '70s, early '80s.

No kidding. So he volunteered to go there when he was no longer active duty, but he had the training to go. So he went and he volunteered. No shit.

Is he local? Can we get him in here? Actually, he is. He is.

I mean, local-ish. I mean, he's about an hour away over towards Ocala, but yeah, he's still in Florida. Man, he's got stories that... I need to write a book.

Yeah, no doubt. He's got some stuff that I can't remember. It's crazy. There's movies being made over.

Yeah. Wow. Favorite cigar? You have a favorite cigar?

I mean, Pistani, of course. it's funny um i i used to always smoke uh cohibas and then when uh people started being able to go over to cuba and stuff now right i have friends in miami that would send me cuban ones and i came in here looking for one and greg's like yeah we don't really carry those a lot and i was like all right well and so we hear i don't know if we pissed them off or we're like hey we'll try one of your house cigars he's like it's more than a cigar it's a national brand we're like oh it's So it's the one that started here. That's the one thing that pisses both of them off. I tried the Habano, and this is the only cigar I have when I come in here now, I really like it.

Awesome. So it is actually, it's a great cigar. I would say like, you know, like bad wording or so forth, I'll own up, I'm the guy that said it's like the house cigar thing. Right, the house blend.

The house, and he's like, hey, it's cool. I would never insult you like that. It's like, I'm not saying that's all it is, this is where it started, this is the house that it built, right, you know? Everybody can come and ask you guys for a Swiss army knife.

You know, your blades are okay, but do you have like a Beck or, you know, like a Benchmade? Oh, man. I'm going to quit now. I don't really know.

I'm a noob. Yeah, you just – was your first cigar when I brought you in here? I think it was, yeah. Yeah, it was.

That's cool, man. So, I mean, that's the best part when you're like just kind of getting into it. Yeah, it's like, I don't know. It's like there's a treasure trove of all these things.

So many ones you can try. I have no idea. Starting them out, I was like, well, you got like the acid cigars, you get a little lighter, you can try something flavorful. Some infuse stuff, kind of get you going.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, that's always a good jump off, right? And then kind of as you gravitate into it, that's when you really start to define what you really like. And, you know, I remember the first year of me smoking, I decided to look up what country of origin were the top five cigars that I was smoking.

They were all Nicaraguan. Really? Yeah. So, you know, it could be different for you.

It could be Dominican, a little bit lighter, a little bit smoother, but, you know, it's always pretty fascinating to see how different everybody is and kind of what everybody enjoys, right? So... You guys have a favorite knife? Favorite type of knife you like?

What are you talking about? I mean, well, that gets really tricky there because it depends on the use. If you're going for like, you know, like culinary... If I was going to kill somebody, what would be a good knife to use?

I do not condone that. We would not sell you a knife to do this particular task. Oh, sorry. We'll just call it everyday use.

Yeah, your EDC, your everyday carry. Mike, I think you'd be the last person that would ever kill somebody. I mean, you've been divorced 75 times. You've had many, many chances, and you've failed every time.

And you don't have a jumpsuit or nothing. Anybody's willing to kill somebody. You do have this room, though. Put them downstairs.

Back to the Bowie knife, I've always loved the shape and the style and size of a Bowie knife. Is there like an iconic blade that you really like? I mean, for me, I mean, aside from like Game of Thrones shit that's kind of new, the Conan sword from Conan the Destroyer I thought was like the fucking best sword. Oh yeah, it was awesome, yeah.

And then the cloud sword that I was busting your balls about from Final Fantasy 7, Cloud Buster. I mean, that's a badass sword. Is there, like, an iconic knife or sword that you guys say that thing is fucking next level? I mean, I love medieval swords.

I love going to Renaissance fairs, fairs, and what not. We're just starting to plan to make a large, broad sword. That's what we both want to do, is make a big double-edged, you know, Conan-style. it yeah my my my iconic sword the one that i've always thought was one of the coolest ones i'd like to make is actually a uh it's an oofbert blade it was a like a viking design um like a pattern welded steel almost like a damascus that they would make but i mean i mean it's it's intense you have to get like your own iron if you want to do it the traditional way which is how i want to do i want to do everything how they did it get your own iron you know get your own charcoal burn Put it in through the top, make it steel, you know, hammer out the puck, make the sword, you know, hand cut in the inlays to actually spell out oof bird in there, lay in the actual, like the iron so when you etch it you can actually read it in the blade.

It's an awesome, it's an awesome blade. That's pretty badass. Yeah. Where'd you see it?

Oh, I've seen one in a couple museums. Oh, okay. They have them in museums. So I'm talking like movies and you're like, yeah.

Oh, like documentaries and stuff like that. I mean, if you've seen Vikings, almost every single kind of blade they're swinging around is a replica of like an oof-bird. So that's ending. Yeah.

Did you hear about that? Yeah, this is the final season of the Vikings, yep. Huh. I've never seen it.

I figured they would've killed it off after, you know, the main... That's kind of when everything started... Ragnar. Yeah, when Ragnar...

Yeah, it was like... Spoiler alert. I tried that. If you have not watched any Vikings.

So... But a good show overall. Yeah, it's a good one. They're making a spin-off series from it.

Of course they are. They make spin-offs for everything. Oh, yeah. So, how many knives do you guys produce annually?

Let's see. I usually make about, right now, maybe it varies from like 60 to 100. No shit. Yeah.

I mean, and I'm not doing this full-time. Right. This for me is maybe like quarter part-time. This is like a side hustle.

Yeah. So, yeah. About 60 to 100 is what I do annually. No shit.

This year, just this year, I'm in 26 so far. Yeah. So, I had a bunch of orders coming at once for kitchen cutlery, and that was 18 right there. Yeah, just a week and a half ago, I made 15, so, I mean, like, already this year, I'm already up to, I mean, for orders, I'm already up to about, like, 30, about 38, and then blades that I make when I teach classes, because I always make a knife with them, if you do that, I'm well over, like, going into 50 right now.

So do you have like a back order list or something like that? Oh yeah, there's a back order list. I just tell anybody who calls for an order, it's six to eight weeks for me to make it. Yeah, I actually had to update my website.

I'm like, it's four months right now if you're on. It's like, hey, but if you want a custom piece, I mean, that's awesome. I'd love to make something with you. We'll collaborate, make your own blade, but just letting you know, you've got a little bit of a wait.

No shit. I'm lucky right now that I don't have to work out of town, so at night after work I can go to the shop. The shop is at your house? No, no, the shop is actually, we have our own forge, so it's not at anyone's house.

Yeah, right here in DeBerry. No kidding. Okay. Do you want to tell how people can get in touch with you, if they want a blade made or they have questions, you know, anything for your website or email or anything?

You can put yours out there too. For me, it's just Shamrock Knives on Facebook and Shamrock_Knives on Instagram. Okay. com.

Cool. For mine, it's BlackHogKnives on Facebook. It's Black_Hog_Knives on Instagram, if you want to look me up there. com for the website.

I've got contact lists there. I have a couple of blades up that I make quite a few times. You can click on those, order that style if you want already off. I'm starting to do a monthly newsletter of everything that I've just made, so you can purchase it now kind of thing.

And you're pretty good on social media, man. I've noticed that. We've had some good back and forth interactions and stuff. Yeah, I try to keep up with that.

Most of the time, I've noticed that they don't mind so much about a wait as if you communicate. Makes a big difference. Yeah, so I try to, even if I have that large backlog, every week I reach out to everyone who's got an order and say, "Hey, this is where you're at right now. This is how long you can.

You've got to look. Hey, I've got your handle material that I got in. I've sourced it from here and all that stuff. " You know, make it kind of part of the whole… Make it part of the process.

Yeah, like part of the process. Like you're actually there seeing it get built along with, you're not there, but you can see the stages as I see them. That's awesome. It was a tough conversation I had to have this week after having the kidney stone surgery with, you know, I think eight different customers.

Like an eight week timeline is going to be about 10 now. I'm sorry, I've got to push out about two weeks. They should happen. So they were all pretty cool about it.

Yeah, usually if you're open, they're pretty cool. They're pretty cool. I did have one customer one time, I was like, hey, this actually happened December 2017, I mean, I've got the scar in my knuckle right here, it's like, hey, I put a knife all the way down to my bone and my finger, so that timeline's gonna have to get pushed back a little bit, like, you know, like an extra two weeks, and this one person, I caught nothing but flack for it. No shit.

I'm like, and then like, so like, I felt bad, you know, 'cause, so I've actually got video of me with stitches in my finger hand sanding a blade. And I'm still getting yelled at by this person. " And it's like, but there's only so much you can do when you got, you know, you got like a couple stitches in your hand. Yeah, no shit.

No shit. And then we're starting a new venture. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Cause, I mean, we, you know, we're two separate companies, but we're friends. We work in, we work out of the same forge. So we're, we're naming the forge. We're going with Black Shamrock.

So that's Black Shamrock Forge. We'll have a combined company and then our own separate companies. Yeah, so, you know, if you want like a specific thing from your other, you know, Jimmy or I, it goes to that company, but if you want a collaboration piece of the both of us, that'll be the Black Shamrock Forge. That's about us.

And then we're thinking, you know, branching out maybe stuff other than just knives. Right. I mean, bottle openers are a big thing for people, but we just bought some steel to start making cigar ashtrays. We're going to start trying new cigar ashtrays.

Oh, that's cool. I have a place where you can sell them. Yeah. Really?

Corona Cigar? Oh, Corona. The other bridge. Across the other bridge.

We'll call Jeff right now. The story you don't talk about, right? You don't get there. You're not good enough for our store, get out of here.

So, I mean, I guess that pretty much wraps it up, right? Well, I got a quick little show update. Yeah? As of last Tuesday.

Okay. We got 17 subscribers on YouTube now. Ooh, with no video. With no video.

Fucking amazing. I love it. California is now our biggest market in the United States. Wow.

85 percent of our listening audience now. Wow. We're going to have to step it up, Florida. Yeah, step it up.

That just happened. Florida was in the lead. I feel like we should just move to Cali. Just moved to California.

Well, if you're going to do that, then the number two internationally is Romania. Ooh. They just beat the UK. Can't say that I'm moving to Romania.

You're not moving to Romania? No. Why not? I'm pretty sure your currency is going to skyrocket over there.

Yeah, maybe, but, you know, it seems like a lot of carbon. I don't know if they're part of the EU, then you might be owing their money. I mean, what's their Wi-Fi like? I mean, you know, I got questions.

Somebody's listening to the show. Yeah, I guess you got a point. I guess you got a point. 65 downloads last month.

What's up, Romania? We'll ship you a knife. There you go. It depends.

International shipping is hard on blades. I mean, it's a pain in the ass from certain states, too, right? Do you have regulations on some states? No, usually the continental US is easy.

S. is easy. I haven't really had any issues with Alaska or Hawaii. You start going international, you start getting problems.

Like right now in England, you can't carry a knife. It's actually illegal to carry. Yeah, they just outlawed that. Yeah, so I don't even know what it's like to ship one over there.

I mean, obviously they have restaurants and they have chefs and so forth. So, hey, that's part of their tools, but I don't know. I really don't know what it would be like right now. Wow.

Is that mainly the type of knife you make? Cutlery? It seems to be out like 60-70% of what I make is kitchen cutlery, but I started out doing... Not that you walked into this store, pal.

We're making all types of fucking crazy shit now. Yeah, we're making just regular knives, walk in here and leave with, you know, 30 orders. So I need a Vorpal longsword made out of, you know, like obsidian and some other craziness. I'm like, oh, and I just nod my head and go, I'd do it, I'd do it.

Greg was a challenge. Yeah. That handle, the handle we made... Yeah, that was...

We make our own handles, too. I have another company that we make our handles, and tried to get it as accurate as I could to the Pastani colors, but 72 hours doesn't leave a lot of time to custom hand-making. Oh, I need to redo it. No, there's no redo time.

Yeah, there was no redo. It was like, this is it. This is where we live. This is the world we live in.

Alright, that's it. 6 percent. Again, it's last year. Wow.

We got some growth. Could have been a bad show last year. Who knows? Huh.

Well, you never know. But hey, well, I appreciate you guys coming out. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks, guys.

And thanks for making the knives for the shop and stuff. Absolutely. I look forward to fucking with you guys a little bit longer and learning a little more about the craft and see what you guys produce in the future. Oh, yeah.

Come on by. Yeah. Same with you, Greg, whomever. You want to come by the shop, come hang out.

Cool. Just throw some steel on the forge and let you hit it with a hammer. I like that. I like that.

It's a good way to take out frustration. If you have a bad day, come over and beat the shit out of something. You can stop cold plunging, Michael, and start doing hammering steel. Hey, you know, I feel like I can integrate both.

There you go. You know? All right. All right, so that's it.

That's it. Thanks, guys. All right, thanks. Hello.

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Show Notes

We go a little off Industry this week and interview two Craftsmen from another Industry.  These two gentlemen for the mear fact were told they couldn't do it, now make one of a kind custom knives.

We sit down and find out what makes them tick this week and turn the five questions into knife questions just for the fun of it!!

As always we welcome your thoughts, ideas, and show tips on our FB page "A Cigar Hustlers Podcast".  You can follow the show on IG @cigarhustlerpodcast, Mikey @cigarhustler and Mike Too @fcc_mike.