Episode 68 Part 3 Skip Martin Roma Craft Tobac

Episode Summary

Part three of the Skip Martin "Chronicles" on A Cigar Hustler's Podcast wraps up a nearly three-hour marathon conversation with the co-founder of RoMa Craft Tobac. This installment is less product talk and more unfiltered industry insight: Skip lays out why half-assed brick-and-mortar retailers — the ones with shag carpet in the humidor who refuse to stock anything sold online — are, in his view, the single biggest danger to the cigar business. He argues that the shops that mentor new smokers and build community are the ones growing the industry, and that a retailer who has never heard of RoMa Craft, Crowned Heads, Dunbarton Tobacco & Trust, Steve Saka, Nick Melillo, Robert Caldwell or Matt Booth simply isn't connected enough to be in the business.

The conversation moves to the sales-rep side of the industry, with Skip recalling his own days as a Galveston retailer who had to shame reps at the trade show into servicing his store, and name-checking early relationships with Puros Indios, Cuba Aliados and Toraño. He explains why RoMa Craft doesn't use outside sales reps, what gets missed without them (bundle-refill abuse, poor merchandising), and how the company's real competitive edge is operational: turning out 400–500 orders in three days with low segundo rates and tight process control at Nica Sueño. He also explains why he actually lives in Nicaragua — he can hear a process deviation in the "symphony" of the factory floor and make ten micro course-corrections in his first hour each day.

There's meaningful blending talk too: how certain tobaccos are sharp and bitter off the table but mellow dramatically in a few months, why nuanced mild cigars are harder to build in Nicaragua than something like Neanderthal, and a preview of a Cameroon-wrapper project where the challenge is keeping the $65-a-pound wrapper front and center. Skip also pushes back on flavor-note culture ("you'll never hear me say hints of cocoa"), praising Colin Ganley's counterargument, and tells listeners to just buy three cigars and decide for themselves. He talks up La Flor Dominicana, Aladino and My Father as brands he could smoke daily, and discusses Estelí factory trips — Drew Estate's Cigar Safari, Perdomo and Camp Camacho as good first visits versus staying at his house and working out of Nica Sueño and NACSA.

The episode closes with Cigar Hustler shop talk: Brittany joins to discuss the store's sales mix (roughly 60% cigars, 40% bar, with about 18% online), what it's like being married into the business, and the oil-and-water Mikey/Greg dynamic. Skip shares war stories about fans who track him down via Instagram, a store event that ended in a shouting match over a customer's brother not liking the cigar, a T-shirt misunderstanding at Shaw's Place in Indiana, and why Cigar Hustler is the only retailer RoMa Craft does a private label for.

In This Episode

1. 01
   Bad retailers and the shag-carpet humidor
   Skip argues that half-assed brick-and-mortar shops that don't mentor new smokers or know the brands are the biggest threat to the cigar industry.
2. 02
   Online sales and the Big Three myth
   Why 'protecting brick and mortar' talk usually comes from brands too small to get a call from CI or JR, and how RoMa Craft keeps big-retailer revenue under 15%.
3. 03
   Sales reps: hunting vs. gathering
   Skip's Galveston retail days, shaming lazy Texas reps at the trade show, and why RoMa Craft runs without outside sales reps.
4. 04
   Blending lessons and the Cameroon project
   How certain leaves spike bitter off the table then mellow, why mild nuanced blends are harder in Nicaragua than Neanderthal, and building around a $65-a-pound Cameroon wrapper.
5. 05
   Flavor notes and buying cigars for yourself
   Skip's dislike of 'hints of cocoa' tasting-note culture, Colin Ganley's counterpoint, and his advice to just buy three and find out.
6. 06
   Factory trips and living in Estelí
   Comparing Cigar Safari, Perdomo and Camp Camacho tours to hands-on time at Nica Sueño, plus why being on the floor daily catches costly errors.
7. 07
   Breaking into the cigar business
   Sweep floors in a cigar store, work the road as a rep, and understand why an MBA and 25 years in Fortune 500 operations underpin what Skip does.
8. 08
   Inside Cigar Hustler
   Brittany on the shop's sales mix, family life around the business, the Mikey-and-Greg dynamic, and the story behind their RoMa Craft private label.

Brands & Cigars Discussed

Linked items are in our shop. Mentions without a link aren’t currently stocked or couldn’t be matched with confidence.

Transcript

Welcome to a Cigar Hustlers Podcast Episode 67. This is part three of the Skip Martin Chronicles. Hope everybody got some coffee because we got one more hour to go. So this is it.

Enjoy the show. How are you doing, Jeffrey? You all right? I'm good.

We're back on it. We hit the record button. Sometimes I wish I was a male. All right, hour number three.

This is hour number three. All right, what questions do you have, Mike? We're on. That's all right, we talk about pee.

Okay. We'll have to crop that up. Sorry about that. You can do it, Brittany, it's just a matter of, it's just a matter, it's a matter of commitment.

But the problem is, is I work out my legs a lot, so they get tired, I have something to hold. Maybe Mike can hold you up. We'll have to cut that out. I don't need that, and then it splatters everywhere, you know.

I just, give me a, I just. Maybe the, uh, raccoon can have, over there. Even if there's a bucket. So, Skip wanna know if you had questions for him.

Uh, no. No, I'm just soaking all this ass in. Come on, Mike. What a dud.

Well, what question was I gonna ask? I don't know. I have to say, he's saying it was right over my head. You got questions for him?

Are you and your wife swingers? No. Okay. That was one question.

Question over. Um, I mean, I had a bunch of questions for you. That's a good question for you. How's it like living in Jeff Gruber's shadow?

Well, Jeff's the king, so... He's great. He is. He's a very nice guy.

He's always very nice to me when we run into each other, so... He doesn't talk down to me or anything. He's no longer, you know, doing the tour. He's no longer doing...

I'm not doing the road work anymore. Yeah, well, you know, one of the great things about your whole eye-opening revelation experience of doing what you're doing is... You've gone from this idea that retailers are great and this industry is just like, you know, Willy Wonka-land to seeing the dark underbelly of slapdick. What's really cool about Skip asking you these questions and kind of like having that interaction is he fucking listens to the podcast, you know what I mean?

Of course, I listen to every episode. So, you know, he's on the up and up. He knows what's going on. Yeah.

If you've got shag carpet in your humidor, you're already taken in hell. That's it, it's a fucking lie, right. You've checked the fuck out as a retailer, right? And you're just there to hang out.

Well, some of the shops he's been describing, I've seen them. Wait, somebody actually has shag carpet. Oh, no, no doubt. I mean, we've seen some shit.

We've seen shag carpet. No. No. We've seen...

You're making this up. No. Oh, my God. I think that was Jacksonville somewhere, wasn't it?

We've seen, uh, we've seen some shit. We've seen some shit. One guy told us he won't buy anything if it's sold online anywhere. Yeah.

" How's that working out for them? That's everything. Yeah, so you're gonna shut down everything in your humidor? If a, if a, I don't even know what boutique means, but if one of these small cigar guys goes, "We're protecting the brick and mortar," and we only, that's 'cause you're not big enough yet.

Right. You're still in your first 10,000 cigars. Yeah, wait a while. 'Cause that's bullshit.

R. calls you, assuming they do, you're gonna fucking take that set, guaranteed. Right. Nobody's gonna turn it down.

In fact, most brands die being 80%, 90% online. Right. We sell less than 15% to the big three. So, because of Whiskey Rebellion, Famous was kind of heavy, like at 8% or 9% for a little while.

We sell less than 15% of our revenues to the Big Three. We don't do terms with almost anyone. I mean, Jeff's like one of three people we'll take a payment, we'll ship before the payment's made. We don't do CODs, we don't do, I mean, we've tried to make every way possible.

And to just, you know, to weed out these half-assed guys. But if there's one thing that's the biggest danger to the cigar business in the country, it's these half-assed retailers. And there's a lot of them. Oh, there are a lot of them.

There's a lot of them. And that, you know, it's kind of low-hanging fruit to talk about bad retailers, but if you think about it, and this is what I, I think I said this recently in an article, But the reason why I started smoking cigars and went from buying one cigar to buying a few more to hanging out in the store to smoking hundreds of thousands of dollars of cigars was because one of those early retailers took me under the wing and started teaching me and I found a community and if you aren't-- If you aren't providing an environment where that happens, then you're basically killing the industry because the next guy who could be me is going to find a bunch of other things they'd rather spend money on than cigars. Well, that's how we ended up here. I started hanging out here one day, two days, before you know I had a key, an alarm code.

Now I've got my own room under the building. Right, you sleep on the couch when you want to kick you out. Right, you sleep on the couch. He's the boss.

He's the flex option too, you know, he's there for, he's involved in every meeting, he's involved, like, you know, we do a wig meeting every week, you know, we talk about, just, I mean, I'm a big believer in the culture, right, and kind of developing your employees and, you know, everybody's a family, we work together, right? If we can boost this, it'll help everybody, right? Yeah, I mean, I'll get, I mean, at least weekly, I'll get an email that says, or a Facebook message or an Instagram message, because that's how you professionally communicate, apparently. Hey, I never heard of your brand before, I've been doing this for 20 years, someone said they asked for it, can you send me some samples?

Right. Nah. Right. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying that's not going to happen.

If you don't know who Romacraft is, and look, I'm not saying we're, at this point and where we are, if you don't know what Romacraft Tobac is, you are not connected enough in the industry that you are in to be in the industry you're in. Exactly. If you don't know who Crowned Heads is, if you don't know who Dunbarton Tobacco & Trust is, if you don't know who Steve Saka is, if you don't know who Nick Malillo is, if you don't know who Robert Caldwell is, if you don't know who Matt Booth is, I'm not saying you have to carry those guys' cigars. There's no who the fuck they are.

At least I've heard of them. You can do a great business, there's a lot of cigar stores out there, probably close to 2,700, that do a great job without selling a single Romacraft cigar. Right. There's plenty of cigar, great cigars to choose from.

But if you don't know who we are, then you probably shouldn't be in this business. Right. And you're probably the same guy bitching about online pricing. Right.

You're the same guy bitching about one of your customers opening a store three miles away. You're one of the same guys bitching about, you know, demanding customers. You know, you're that guy. Right.

And so, just do yourself a favor, do us all a favor, shut down and let somebody else get out of the way. Yeah, exactly. Because you're not fucking doing anybody a service. But you know, there's a lot of reps like that, too.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of reps that are just like literally a waste of time. Well, the reps that are the best are the ones that you call and you place the order, and they never submit the order. Like, that's like a fucking real thing.

Or the ones that submit orders that you never placed. Right, I'm like, what the fuck is this? I'm like, oh no, that's coming. Yeah, the worst kinds of reps are the ones that, you know, when I first opened my store, we were ordering a lot from Great Discoveries, which was like a distributor, because I didn't know any better.

And then I'm like, I got a call from Jose, from my father. At that time, he was working at Puros Indios. Okay. Jose, um, slip in my mind.

Ortega? Jose Ortega. Yeah. Yeah.

" Yeah, I'll come out and do it. And then Armando from Taranio was one of the very first guys. But a lot of the Texas reps would never make their way down to Galveston. It would be like having a shop in the Keys.

And the Florida rep would never go south of Miami, right? And so I showed up at the trade show with a notebook saying, here's my plan for the store, here's the stuff we do, here's every brand that's gone. You know, Puro Sendios has gone this way, you know, from nothing to 12% of our sales, Toronto's gone to this, and I would, like, shame the reps, like, that guy over there, Brian McGee, CAO, you know, that dude, he hasn't ever come down, fuck that guy, I want to order from you, you know, Tom Poehler, fuck that guy at Camacho, you don't even pay him a commission, I'll buy from you directly. Right.

And then, you know, the Ashton guy, the La Flor guy, and every one of these guys could tell you, I was a huge pain in their ass. But then, I'm like, look, all I want to do is sell your product. I mean, you know, this is what you do. Right, it's what you're here for.

You don't have to come to events. You don't have to do any of that. I live in Austin. In fact, when you're in Austin, come and see me.

I'll put in the orders for Galveston. You don't have to drive down to Galveston. Right. And eventually they all said, man, it turned out to be a really good account for them, but so many of them were just lazy.

Right. And they just, they weren't hunting and killing anymore, they were just gathering, right? Right. And so, at what point are you just earning a commission on order taking?

Right. Now, that said, it's also a super hard bullshit, Jaha. Right. Get in your car, driving 45 minutes to the next place.

You get kicked in the teeth a fuckin' handful of times. Right, all day long. Right. I mean, especially if you're selling something that maybe doesn't move as good as other stuff.

Right, right. It's not an easy job. No. By any means.

But, you know, we don't have outside sales reps. Right. I don't, I mean, I think there's some things we miss out on, like, you know, whether stores are presenting our product correctly or whether, you know, we do the bundle refills. We have a lot of shops where we've caught them putting, like, you know, Mode 5s in an old EMH box So they could take advantage of the bundles and they never would order the Mode 5 box or whatever.

Those things you would catch more quickly if you had people on the road. But, you know, Mike spends a lot of days on the road. Yeah. And, you know, one of the reasons why Mike does what he does and I do what I do is Mike has a whole lot more patience for what he does than I do.

I know you've learned a lot from Mike. Oh, of course. I learned a shit ton from both of you. Are you kidding me?

Right. like a hybrid of the two you know from i mean there's some aspects and i mean like just going to the factory with you and spending a week you know the information they retain is fucking crazy right and there's always something new something that you didn't think about that you know for whatever reason you cover in the in that aspect doing the blend or or tasting something or i mean like the big one that kind of stuck with me this last time around is what particular tobaccos And those really have a spike and a bitterness off the table that really significantly mellow out into something completely different. Yeah, knowing what they're going to be like in four months. Right, completely different, you know?

When they're wet, they have one characteristic. Right. And when I blended the Habano, you know, I didn't really gravitate towards any of that stuff, right? I didn't have any of those leaves.

" Right. It's too sharp. Right. You know?

So that was kind of crazy. " So, you know, one of the big things from my notes from the last trip was like, these particular tobacco plants, these particular leaves, you need to take note that it's going to mellow out significantly. Yeah. " And I'm like, "I've been smoking cigars for 30 years.

You'll never hear me say hints of cocoa? Any of that shit. Fucking hay? Yeah.

Good, because I hate when people do that. I feel like I'm missing out on something. Well, you're not catching it either. Colin Ganley, who I think has a really good palate, Colin Ganley, his case to be made for that is, you have to have a language that you can use to convey taste to someone who's with words.

Right. Right? My theory is, you have to have a language that you can use to convey taste to someone who's with words. Right.

Right? My theory is, it's the A cigar costs $8. Invest $8. And taste it for yourself.

Right. It tastes good. It's sweet, it's salty, it's spicy. Like, you know, what cigar should I try?

Like, I get these messages on Cigar Cartel or whatever, it's like, I'm really debating about buying Aroma Craft, you know, which one should I try? It's like, fucking go out on a limb, bro. Buy three of them. Take a leap.

It's fucking, I mean, first of all, if you don't like something we make, you don't like cigars. Right. I really believe that. Yeah.

I'm not saying you think it's the greatest thing ever. There's a couple of cigars we make that I'm not a big fan of just because they don't hit me the right way, and I can certainly see how somebody who likes, I can certainly see how somebody could like almost nothing we make, but if you don't, I mean, not thinking it's like an everyday cigar for them. Right. " Then you just probably aren't a cigar smoker.

And if you're making this post about whatever, you're just probably looking for attention because make an investment. Smoke a bunch of things. If you smoke one cigar a month, then that's your deal. Maybe that one cigar you smoke a month you may not enjoy.

I don't know what to tell you. But the good news is there's not that many cigars being made today that are not going to be a cigar. And you're not decent. Right.

I mean, most cigar stores won't carry things that are just bad. Well, you know, what's kind of funny is the shitty, it's like the good and the bad. For me, and I'm not fucking just kind of toting for you, like, Roma Craft and the Nica Sueno stuff that comes out of the factory really is a standard for me, right? So, when you use that as a comparable for a lot of other products, I mean, I have a tendency to pick them apart at this point.

But you probably like almost everything La Flor makes. Yeah, it's good. They're good to go. You probably like the Aladino and the ceiling stuff.

The Aladino I thought was excellent. Right. Because we're in that vein. Right.

So we're kind of already in your, you know, zone. Right. But if you're a, if you're smoking stuff that comes out of like the Ventura factory all the time. Right.

We may not be in your vein. You might be a Caldwell, Casada, Davidoff. You may be a whole different animal. That just may be your thing.

And those are all good cigars. It's not something I would smoke every day, just because that's not my thing. But if I had to smoke La Flor Domenicana every day, I could. Yeah, absolutely.

And the same with the Aladinos. Or my father. I could smoke every day. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Well, everybody's like that. There's stuff I used to smoke, even two years ago, that I just can't get through now. Like, this is fucking terrible.

What I really look for- You didn't know what first class was until you sat in fucking first class. That's true. You know? There's, um, it's a lot harder to blend a nuanced, mild, smooth cigar than it is to blend the kind of cigars we make generally.

Right. It's very hard to make that kind of cigar in Nicaragua. Right. Because as soon as you put any kind of Nicaraguan tobacco in it, it immediately overpowers everything else.

So you have to just start working from that direction. Right. This Cameroon project we're working on now is the opposite, and the feedback from everybody that smoked it was, you know, Danny and John and Mike, and the feedback was, this doesn't taste like anything we make, this is almost too mild. Right.

And I'm like, but you're paying $65 a pound for the wrapper, that's what you want to taste. Right. How do we use other tobaccos, not low-priming tobaccos, tobaccos that still have texture and flavor, that don't overpower the wrapper? That was, that's a lot harder than, say, making the Neanderthal.

Right. Somebody needs to go with her. Don't let her disarm the alarm by herself. Plus I need another beer, I think.

Fine. You drank all the cold ones. You drank all the bombs? We'll take whatever else.

You got any Goliaths that are cold? And Arlen needs some more wine. No. No, I guess I'm good for them.

Yep. Más vino. Oh my God, no. So we're doing, we're doing pretty well.

I mean. But yeah, I don't know what the... Thank you. I don't know what the...

I'm trying to fill in the third hour. Right. I'm not really. I mean, we can talk about whatever you want to talk about.

Right. We've had six-hour conversations. Easy. You started getting that look that you had.

I don't know what the... I don't know what the... I'm trying to fill in the third hour. Right.

I'm not really. I mean, we can talk about whatever you want to talk about. Right. We've had six-hour conversations.

You started getting that look that you get about 4:30 in the morning on my porch, where you don't want to throw in the flag. He plays that look well. Yeah. He's going to call you a person.

Well, you just kind of look around. He's like, fuck. m. Daylight Savings Time.

Daylight Savings Time. Yeah, I mean, I'm doing alright. Oh, it's now officially Jeff's birthday. It is.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Jeff. Yay! Oh, gracias!

See, this whole time she acts like she doesn't understand, but she knows exactly what the fuck they're going on. If we started talking about women, she immediately knows what's going on. Right. Well, I mean, dude.

I'm surprised Mike hasn't come down to Nicaragua yet. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised about that too, now that you bring that to my attention. He needs a presentation of an invite. Like, you know.

No, I just... You're welcome to come anytime. There's your invite. Thank you.

Somebody can invite to me. But I know like the end of the, half of the first day, you're gonna be nicotine sick. So we gotta get you ramped up. Okay.

It's a lot harder than you think it is. Oh, I'm sure it is. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Well, I mean, he knows some of the war stories that I've said, you know, and stuff like that. Well, next time you or Greg go, I'll tag along. Okay. Sounds good to me.

Yeah, definitely. We have an inflatable mattress. That's my mattress, goddammit! I'll charge rent if anybody fucking sleeps on that thing.

Yeah, man, it's an unbelievable experience, you know, but what's really cool is he gets to skip the fucking bullshit tour and gets right into the nitty gritty of it, right? Like, you don't, I mean, there's a testament for, like, your Perdomo, your Cigar Safari, like, all those things are cool. And for like the first experience of Esteli, I would say that's kind of the way to go, right? But after you kind of get acclimated to it, and you know, you want to let the training wheels off, and you go and kind of experience Esteli as for what it is, you know, going into the factory in Nicasuenos, the only way I'd do it, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I would love to do customer trips, I mean, for you to bring five or ten guys down. The problem is it's like a whole trying to manage that, for me, is trying to keep people entertained for four days. Right, you need a Pedro or a heaven or some shit. I mean, even when you come down, I don't babysit you for four days.

No. I'm not with you for half of a day every day. Yeah, I go out and go rogue and shit. Right.

Yeah, but there's just no comparison to going on the Drew Estate tours and the Prodomo tours and those to staying at your house, walking to the coffee shop, walking to the factory, going to the store here. So there's just no comparison. Yeah, but, I mean, the majority of people will be staying at Los Arcos. They're not at the level that, you know.

Well, but it's also, it is good for your first trip to go on Camp Camacho or to Drew Estate or the Rocky trip or whatever. That's what I did. Right. And, I mean, even if somebody comes down for the first time with me, I'll generally take them over to AJ's, I'll generally take them and say, you know, this is what a big factory looks like.

Now, when you look at our factory, you can see all those things happening in a much more compact way. I mean, every factory does basically the same thing. Right. Every factory has a mojadero, a secadero, sorting, a bodega of finished, you know, tobacco that's ready to roll.

Right. They sort out the bunch of roller tobacco, the bunch of rollers, the quality, the aging, the packaging, shipping. That's every factory. Right.

Some factories also have their own pre-industry, fermentation, pallones, in which case we always go over to Nicoprosa and see. I mean, I think it was like your third or fourth trip, we went over and saw Gus Kira, Gus Kira can put enough on your brain to, you know, make you dizzy in about a week, for a week, but yeah, it's not a super complex process making cigars, but it isn't easy either, meaning it's not rocket science, it's simple, but not easy, it's not easy, yeah. All right. Cool.

Is that all you got? That's it. Is that all you got? All right.

That's all I got. I don't know what else I could tell you unless, you know, if I was a tree, what kind of tree would I be? Are you trying to Roy Firestone me? This worked into a third episode.

You know, it was really kind of cool. You know, something that you don't talk about a lot is the preparation for the show. That you guys prepare? Yeah, just all the way.

I mean, yeah, you get to fuckin'... I can generally turn any question into a 30-minute response, because I have a lot of strong feelings, and I can articulate what I want to say, but if you just sit down in front of this microphone and talk for an hour and make up shit, nobody cares about that. Right. So, you know, some of the really good podcasts, they do a really great job of kind of knowing what these questions to ask are.

Right. Like, you know, the questions we were talking about with Jeff or... I wasn't prepared for Jeff. Yeah.

The Hot Ticket guys, if you listen to their podcast. Yeah, I do. Those guys crack me up. I mean, they talk everything from...

Yeah, they're insane. They have scatological conversations. They're everywhere, all over the place. And then there's a new podcast that just came out, The Lounge Experience, the ladies up in New York, which is pretty, I'm looking to see how that evolves.

What about Saltans of Smoke? How do you feel about Saltans of Smoke? I like Mo a lot. Danny is Comic Relief.

The other two guys crack me up. There's one called The One and Only Rebar, which is just basically, literally, guys sitting around bullshitting, cracks me up. B. B.

Fingers. They're popping up, a couple of them are popping up. Yeah, I mean, you know, when I, when I, there was a point in time, maybe early on, like right after the cigar store closed, where we were doing these hearfs online, where eight or nine guys would dial in live and we would just talk about whatever. Those were all interesting, but a lot of the newer podcasts are kind of that, but in a more of a documented kind of a form, yeah, I mean, I don't know how many times you can hear Nick Malillo go on to a podcast and talk about being the king of Connecticut broadly or whatever, because there's a thousand other more interesting questions I would ask Nick, not, you know, tell us about your first cigar and how'd you get started in the cigar business.

Yeah, that's kind of the shitty part, right. I mean, one of the things I like about what you guys do is you're talking to the guys in the industry, you know, just giving people kind of a perspective. A lot of people want to be in this business. Right.

I mean, so we posted this job recently for the warehouse. Right. And it's really a low-end job. It's pack boxes, pool, stuff for the warehouse.

Right. It's really meant for like, you know, somebody who's somewhere between the gap and a real job. Right. Right.

" Yeah. " Well, of course, we're not going to set anybody up to fail, but-- No, of course not. And, you know, you obviously identify those people and say, "Hey," you know. But yeah, there's people who want to be in this business, and it's like, Like, I get that you want to do what I do.

Right, he's already had the Dasvidani. But the reality is, I have an MBA from essentially an Ivy League school. Right. I got 25 years of working in Fortune 500 companies at the highest level.

Right. I had millions of dollars. Right. Like, you can't just, you know, jump in and do what I do.

You're not just going to walk in. Which has been kind of the interesting thing about, you know, I mean, look, going over a negotiation in China, I wouldn't wish that I'm a worse fucking enemy. Right. I think we were halfway into that Chiaomaine story.

Fuck that. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

I hate it. Someone told me a story. I always want to tell you this, Mike. I don't know if I ever told you this story.

And there's like a little short version of it that is the difference between commitment and involvement is ham and eggs. Right. The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. The pig was committed.

Yeah. And then, you know, like in China, it's like, you know, we'll make a business, you know, you bring the ham, I'll bring the eggs, and we'll make a great business, that's China. Exactly. China thinks in 500 years, 1,000 years, and you know, like the whole canal project in Nicaragua, they just want to own the world.

Right. They're like the Borg. They're like the hive, you know, you will be assimilated, we will have all your stuff. Right.

They're going to buy our own cheap shut, borrow money from us to buy stupid shit in the short term, and we're going to own everything. Right. I mean, they're already thinking about how they're going to mine the fucking ice cap when it melts. Right.

You know? And so they could be the first ones off the planet to mine the next fucking place. Yeah. Right?

That's the way they think, right? That's the way they think, they do. Yeah. You sit at a table like this, it's a collective decision on anything, from when do you go to the bathroom, what are you going to have for lunch, I mean, when the meeting's over, not one guy will make the decision.

Yeah, but if you want to be in the cigar business, here's my, going back to my baseball analogy thing, go work in a cigar store. Right. Humble yourself, work part-time in a cigar store. Sweep the fucking floor.

Put in the work. Clean the bathroom. Right. Stock the shelves.

Learn all the cigars. Learn how the system works. Learn how the store works with customers. Learn how the store works with purchasing.

" It's not easy. No, not at all. It's not easy at all. What's kind of remarkable, too, is how some of the guys look at the situation, brand owners and manufacturers, and like, "How the fuck did they do that?

" I'm like, "I don't know, man. We've got this whole sales force. " We're still not where they're at, or we're close to them, or we're just barely exceeding them in sales, but we have, you know, a hundred other people to fucking pay, you know. I've had this long conversation with Steve about, I mean his son and his family does the packaging orders and doing all that.

Right. We get a shipment in, we could turn out four or five hundred orders in three days. Right, that's crazy. I mean, we are, the whole process from how much movement you make from here to here is all designed in the process.

And we can turn out 400, 500 orders in three days. And we can do it efficiently, accurately, and that is where we really win. Right. We win on the process side of the factory.

Our Segundo rate, all those things are really low. It's everything from, you know, the things we talked about before with employees, but also around just the attention of detail to every little thing, the movement of things, how things are, you know, to prevent errors, how things are stacked in the storage area, but all that all the way through to how we pack an order. And there's a lot of guys in this business that are still in a whole different league when it comes to doing something. Even though we're small, you know, I could show up at the biggest factory in town and probably find ways to be more efficient and cost effective and they've been doing it for 50 years because that's what I did for a living.

They don't look to improve the process. Right. You also can't have a brand and then come down to Nicaragua once every two or three months and then expect to not have problems. Right.

Sokka's been doing this for 30-something years. The guy that runs the factory is Esteban's brother. Right. Who's just as good as Esteban in a lot of ways.

S. I came back. We had changed the packaging. Half of the shit was wrong.

I had to have them take it out of the box, undo the stickers, repackage everything. We lost three days of work to do it. Right. But I was there to make that call.

Right. Nobody in that factory would have made that call. Right. No, they would have just shipped it.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Here you go. Exactly. So you have to be there. Right.

I mean, Arlen could tell you every day I walk in there, there's like five things, six things, ten things I check. I can sit in the front of the factory. And as much bullshit as this sound, this is absolutely true. There's this symphony of sounds that are happening between the sound of the Chevetas, to the guillotines, to the presses, to the movements, to this guy moving this way with that pat thing, the tobacco coming this way.

How many ladies are in the back, what they're doing, what they're working on today, what they're supposed to be working on tomorrow. And I can hear when there's a problem in the factory. I can hear a sound that I don't normally hear. I could see a movement of something that I don't normally see.

That's irregular. " Right. " No, this is why we have to do it this way, this way. And it's something I've done a hundred times before, but if you're not there to tell them that...

It just goes that direction. I mean, like I said, Arnold could tell you, I walk in, and the first hour I'm there every day, there's ten little micro course corrections that happen. Right. And that's why I live in Nicaragua.

Yeah. I don't live there because of the cuisine. Right. Or because of the entertainment options, or, you know, it's a great place, but once you've been there five years, you're like, fuck.

How about you've been there for a fucking week? I just want to go to Austin and eat some Chick-fil-A. For a week, you're like, man. Right.

Well, every time you come down there, it's like, hey, can you bring some decent cereal? All right. Bring some groceries. Right.

That people don't get that, you know? All right, so there's that level of commitment you have to have. So, is this like the official longest podcast that we've ever done? Yeah, we don't have any three-parters.

And this qualifies? Oh, yeah, we're at two and a half hours. Feel free to edit any of that out. Fuck no.

It would have been a little bit longer, but cut out a couple of times. Right. But it was just seconds. Is this the part of the show where I start asking questions?

Ask, I ask anything you want. So, Brittany, you just recently started working here at Cigar Hustler. I shoved my face with a fucking clunk or a cook bar. So you're doing the bookkeeping now, right?

So you've been on the periphery of this whole Cigar Hustler dream, from being a vape shop to being kind of a great, one of the best in the country, Small, Medium Cigar Bar Stores, what's your take on the, what's it like being a cigar shop widow? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, I just actually FaceTime Greg, and I just hung up on him. I would love that, I could do a whole show on the Mike-Greg dynamic. Oh please, oof, oof.

You should see Mike and Greg together in the factory. You know, they almost never come together anymore. They don't go together. So Greg will come, spend time with me, and Mike will come and spend time with me, and the two experiences are completely different.

The me and Greg conversations are completely different than the me and Mike conversations. I believe that. The two of you have gone down together? Initially.

That stopped a long time ago. They handle two completely different sides of the business. So it would be two completely different trips. I mean, to kind of put things into perspective, like, when we go down, when we do IPCPR, like the first year, you know, to budget, we stayed in the same hotel room, right?

We wanted to fucking kill each other, you know? You almost did the year I went. Yeah. " I'm not easy to deal with at the trade show.

Right. It's tough, man. It's tough. Because, you know, I mean, it's just like drinking from a fucking fire hydrant.

You know, you're in constant contact with everybody and everybody who wants to talk to you, which is cool. Plus, I'm such a perfectionist. I'm like, is somebody going to sweep the fucking rug? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's seven of you motherfuckers standing around here. Do you not see those fucking ashes?

Right. You see that cellophane there? And Mike will be like, "Calm down, man. " Yeah, so, you know, I mean, yeah, that dynamic in itself.

In a lot of ways, me and Greg are more alike. Right. In some ways, me and you are more alike, but the dynamic you guys have together is like oil and water. Right.

The dynamic Mike and I have together is not like that at all. Right. Mike and I don't have the problems you and Greg have. Right.

Because Mike and I are completely different, but we almost operate in our own spheres. Right. Yeah, because you fucking blow in like a fucking whirlwind. " No, that's not true.

I don't, I don't ever fuck with the stuff Mike does. Mike's, Mike's one of the best, you know, Mike's really underrated in terms of the thing that Mike does, he's probably one of the best in the country at doing it. I agree. And, and, you know, almost, you know, Mike, I can walk into some stores and nobody knows who the fuck I am.

Right. Like, I was at that hearing today, some of those people don't know who the fuck, I mean, they don't know who I am. Right. And that's fine with me.

Mike knows the retail guys way, way better than I do. Of course. But, like, people online who interact with me all the time, like, well, Skip basically does everything. It's like, well, because you have no idea what Mike does.

It's almost like Marvin Samuel and Jonathan Drew. Right. They did two completely different things. Right.

For decades. But Marvin built that company as much as John did. Right. Yeah.

I could say the same thing about us, I guess. i guess so let's leave it at that so i mean what you're gonna leave it at that yeah i was looking for some juicy stories about the inside cigar hustler if we were going to have to do an hour three i wanted to know what was the dope inside dope i guess the only thing that i can say can you hear me yeah you're all right get a little closer is that i know that uh mikey puts in a It's a 24-hour thing. I mean. That's that side of it.

Yeah. He, and a lot of people don't get that. You know, he gets a lot of shit. You know, he likes to, I mean, go to the gym in the morning, get to work by 11, 12 o'clock, you know, whatever.

12 o'clock. His ice baths. However, we are up at 7 o'clock in the morning with both kids, getting both kids to school. Plus, your two kids are terrorists.

Yeah. Yes. They are all boy, all day, every day. So Mike doesn't talk about this a lot, but in his house he has like this clothing, like a coat rack?

Yep. And it's all these superhero uniforms? Yep. That's all Britney.

And literally, these kids will go put these uniforms on and just tear up the whole fucking house. Right. They turn into Hulk, Superman. " I'm like, "We're in the house.

" Like, how about you just play with your toys? Like, you don't need to play tag. Well, hold on. Let's put that in perspective, though.

You have an entire 25% of your entire living area of your home gated off with nothing. It looks like a fun park. It's padded. Literally, there's two bedrooms and their playroom is padded flooring.

Yet, they go into our living room where there's stuff that needs to be break. Half our picture frames... Because the little pillows are in there and shit. Yes.

Half our picture frames don't have glass in them. It's the lava room. Because they've been broken. And I will eventually have glass in picture frames, I would figure, in about 10, 15 years.

I don't even try to replace them. But they do do this, the newest game, I think, is hot lava. It's one, two, three, hot lava, and then you have to jump from couch to everything. Did you ever see the Christmas card where they're duct taped to the wall?

Yeah. That's the greatest. So, the little guy, Justice, you know, so like, so I have a hard time disciplining them, right? So like, I'm definitely the soft, she calls me softy daddy, but, so, um, he'll jump from this little red sofa thing that we have onto the couch, and then… It's a chaise lounge.

Okay. Crossing over a massive humidor. This is what I've got to deal with. It's a chaise lounge.

You know what? You've got no stories. It's a chaise lounge. Crossing over a massive humidor.

Right. Onto a couch. So in short, Greg doesn't deal with these problems. Greg has his Tinder date for the week or whatever.

Greg encourages it if he's ever at the house. He is babysitting right now while we're smoking. But the kids are sleeping. While we're in the non-smoking.

Yes, non-smoking. Are you sure the house doesn't burn down? No, we have alerts. We haven't gotten them.

And I've been in contact with Greg, making sure everything's okay. Yeah. Go ahead. So, now, you're a referee in the Cigar Hustler game, or?

No. No. I get very uncomfortable when they start to go at it. Everybody runs and hides.

When there's conflict, everybody leaves. Because I've been, Mikey and I have been together, may it be 15 years that him and I have been together. And I've seen, in all kinds of ways, the way that they go at it and argue. So, sometimes I kind of like, just...

The thing is though, from my perspective is, and I don't see it nearly as much as you guys do, but my perspective is, what's interesting is, they're both arguing towards this objective for the business. Right. They have completely different perspectives about how you should go about doing certain things, but if you took either one of their arguments, they're both trying to move the business forward. Right.

Whereas, in a lot of, you know, as Jeff can attest, we covered it, there's a lot of people who have arguments within business where the business has nothing to do with the argument. Right, it's all personal gain. Right, right. So that's at least a positive thing, right?

Yeah, yeah. Plus, now you have Mike around to beat up on a little bit. No, the guy's, you know, he's clutch, man. You know?

I try and get him on my side is what happens. " They should start trying to build, like, what is it on Survivor Island, your coalition or whatever. " And he's like, "I don't know. " I'm like, "Fuck you.

" Then I have to come in and be like, "Leave Palmer alone. Keep Palmers nice. " I mean, there's been some times where I've been uncomfortable between him and Greg. " So how much of your business is tobacco versus non-tobacco?

I would say, I mean, the vast majority of it is tobacco, where the other stuff is probably, are you including the bar? Yeah, everything. Okay, so with the bar, it's probably about the 40% bar and other stuff. 60% cigars?

Yeah. So, of the 60% cigars, what percentage of that is sold at the register versus sold to people you ship to? I would say 70% of it's in store, maybe 65%. So I'm doing some math, it's like 42%?

Yeah. In the store. Okay. Eighteen-ish percent.

Online? Online. And it could be a lot more online, right? Yeah.

I could easily fucking go nuts and, you know, do your deep discount bullshit and fucking compete against everybody, but fuck that, I'm not that guy, you know? Right. I believe in the experience and the service and, you know, like, that's me. Yeah.

I mean, I send customers to you all the time. I know you do. And the main reason why I send them to you, especially like international guys, is because you'll go through the effort of filling out the customs form, actually, whereas a lot of stores won't do that. Right.

So. Yeah. What else you got? I got nothing.

Come on, we need 15 more minutes. I mean, we could talk about any number of things, but. Well, I was just gonna say that Mikey's phone is going off all the time, all hours of the night. It's a little plug for him.

No, I mean, but that comes with the territory, right? Oh, look, we were driving here today, and my phone rings, and it's like, you know, iHeartCaliHP or something, I'm like, it's like an Instagram voice call. People, Facebook message call me, Instagram call me, and I'll answer the phone and I'll be like, "Hello? " Yeah, this is so-and-so.

I'm like, okay. They're like, what can I do for you? No, man, I just want to see what's up. I saw you were in Florida.

It's like, yeah, we're in Florida. Okay, cool, man. So how's it going? And I'm like, I don't even fucking know you.

It's going well. But it's like me just calling up the weatherman at the news station. So in AA, calling their Instagram, going. And it's like, it doesn't bother me.

Right. Or I'll be in a story. This is strange. Yeah.

Well, the fact that you won't FaceTime dudes is strange. I went to Kansas City. I had a completely not related to cigars meeting with a guy who's a friend of mine in Kansas City. So I flew up to Kansas City.

" Went to this restaurant, took a picture of my meal, posted it online. " It's like, "Oh man, I saw you were here. I just want to stop by and say," I'm like, "Okay, have you eaten? " so then I get a message later like hey where you at I'm like what are you talking about it's like we just decided to go to a different place and he was over waiting at the other place oh shit and I'm like okay I'll head over there like you know we'll come we'll come hang out no problem but it's weird yeah and I'm not trying to say like I'm famous I'm certainly not I mean I don't know why the fuck you'd want to hang out with the 300 pound no I mean I I feel like And when Skip comes into town...

The disaster? No, not disaster. Oh. No, but everyone comes.

" Right. " I mean, and you're still like that. Right. Just still like that.

You know, we're just, we're that guy. Right. We just like smoking cigars and bullshitting, and we happen to be in the business, but... Right.

But there are, I mean, there's this dynamic, and I'm going to lay some real shit on you right here. Okay. There we go. There's this dynamic in the cigar world, and everybody talks about it, where you can go into a shop, and it'll be a plumber, an electrician, a fucking Wall Street guy, whatever.

Right. They say that all the time, and that's absolutely true. But no matter who you are, you go into a cigar shop, if you're a regular in a shop, even if you're a straight fucking antisocial weirdo, people will let you hang out. right so you have no other friends in the world you're a complete anti-social loser and everywhere in the world like about to shoot people up from a clock tower right but the eight guys in the cigar shop will let you hang out and bullshit with them right there's a lot of those guys around the cigar world socially ineps right and the problem is that those guys have so much of their Personal value, personal self-esteem wrapped up into it, and especially when they follow you on Instagram or Facebook or whatever, and they feel like your best friends.

And I generally remember thousands of people, I'm not as good at it as someone like John Drew, who's freakishly good at it, but I will generally, especially if you tell me your Instagram name or whatever, I'll remember. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, you just had a baby, or whatever. Right.

But these guys will come up and go, hey, Skip, what's up, man? Like, we're college roommates. Right. And I'm like, hey, what's up, man?

Oh, yeah. Oh, man, I just got off work, shit with my wife. It's like, okay, that's cool, man. What are you smoking?

It's like, oh, man. And it's like, I don't know who the fuck this guy is. Right. I literally don't know who this guy is.

" I mean, I've had that interaction here. I don't know what you're talking about. You want to tell that story? He came in today.

Sure. And then he was coming, then he left? Jared. Which one?

The one? Jared. Jared. No, but it was the other one that came in, I thought.

It was his brother. So I came here for an event. Skip will tell the story. I'll tell part of it, and then Mike can fill in his reality version of it.

I came in for an event, and if you know anything about me, I'm not great at events. Mike will do an event like a pro. I'll go sit at a table and if you want to talk about tobacco or whatever, like this kind of conversation, I could have this all night. Let's pour a beer and let's have this kind of conversation.

So this guy comes up to me and he goes, "Hey, I'm a big fan. " He goes, you know, I just really, he goes, my brother's coming in, I want to buy him a cigar, and I really want him to love Roma Craft the way I love Roma Craft. I'm like, man, from really, sincerely, that means a lot to me, that you are that kind of fan, but also that you, you know, that it means something to you that your brother likes our brand as well. I said, well, what does he normally smoke?

He's like, well, you know, he normally smokes Romeo and Julieta. Real, whatever. And I'm like, or Monte Cristo White, or whatever it was. The Caldwell example.

'" So I'm like, okay, well, let's get him this, you know, this is pretty approachable, it's medium, whatever. " Right, because Mike is sales, and you're not. " I'm like, okay, yeah, can't win them all, you know, I kind of, I kind of saw, I kind of saw that one coming, he goes, yeah, but he says it's bad tobacco, and it's not burnt, I'm like, look, dude, we don't make cigars like that, I said, let me see it, he said, yeah, it's perfectly fine, I said, maybe he just doesn't like it, he goes, yeah, but he's like, his whole thing was wrapped around making his brother believe that he was good at picking out cigars, in which case, he would have picked out the cigar I told you to pick out, not one of mine, but, then They got personally upset about it, and at that point, I lost patience, and I was like, "I don't know what the fuck to tell you. I'll give your money back, I'll go buy you another cigar of someone else's.

" You tell your half of the story, but it was basically that, right? Yeah, no, that's pretty accurate. And then the guy sat there like, I thought he was literally gonna stab me or something. I was ready for my defensive move.

The body slam? He was into his cups. So, you know, he was gassed up. He still hates it to this day, by the way.

Which, look-- He loves to retell the story. That's fine with me, he does. His version is totally, totally, totally far off base. I could have completely cut that thing off at the pass and told you to buy a Romeo and Julieta.

Right, right. You know. It's a great story. I don't know what to tell you.

It was epic. It was fucking epic. Yeah. I'm glad it happened.

I'll tell you a story about Mike. Mike, we were at a store in Indiana, we had driven from Chicago to Indiana. Jeffersonville? No, we were in North, like, whatever, off, is that, that's Indiana, right?

Yeah. When you come, when, yeah, yeah. Come out of Chicago. " and Mike says, dude, we make cigars, not T-shirts.

And the guy's like, okay, well, fuck you then. And he kind of walks away, and he goes on Twitter, and he's like, I drove an hour and a half to come meet Mike and Skip, and the guy basically motherfucked me, and then he's driving back, and I'm messaging, and I'm like, Mike, did you just tell this guy? He goes, yeah, I was totally kidding. Like, we don't have any T-shirts here.

So I'm like, you know, well, you know, we're going to send this guy a t-shirt and, you know, but that guy drove an hour and a half to get there and he spent two minutes talking to Mike and then he left. And so Mike, of course, is like, "Fuck that guy. I don't make t-shirts. " I drove three hours for a t-shirt.

You actually drove two hours to chauffeur, is what you did. Yeah, to watch a podcast. All right, so, you want to call it there, pal? It's up to Skip.

That's fine with me. I'm sure people have long ago tuned out. We're going to break this apart. We'll break it into three episodes.

Jeff's got to get on a plane in like ten minutes. Yeah, it's two o'clock. You've probably got to edit out about an hour of this. You've got about an hour of this.

No way. What are you talking about? Well, dude, you know, I mean, I appreciate you coming on the show, obviously, and I appreciate all the knowledge that you share with me, fucking annually at this point. You know, we've been going at this shit for a while, and, you know, I look forward to all the adventures that we've had or going to have moving forward, you know?

Yeah, you know, people ask me all the time, you know, why we do private labels for you, but we don't do it for other people. And, really, I don't even like that we do it for you. The right place, the right time, buddy, right place, the right time. I mean, because Jeff doesn't have a private label, he's asked for one about a dozen times, but it's because, you know, I basically said to you, okay, give me $50,000, spend 20 hours here, and you did every single thing, and that's why you have one and no one else does.

Because Jeff wasn't about to do that. He had, you know, lesbians and ex-wives to pay off. I'll tell you what, you know, coming up that first 50 wasn't easy either. Lesbians and ex-wives today are my life story.

You can write a book. So yeah, that's what I got, man. Well, thanks for having me. I'm glad we drove up.

I mean, you know, my bedtime's not for another three hours. Oh yeah, no, we're hanging out. I'm just getting this fucking mic out for my face. Clean this place up.

There is no air conditioning down here. No. And we may have put too much smoke in the air for Greg. There was no smoke.

Nobody smoked in here. Never happened. Never happened. Just so you know, he's still at the house with the kids.

Is he? Yep, I text him. I have a good communication with him. All right, cool.

He's drinking your good scouts. Maybe we go back there? Well, hopefully, we can get you some subscribers. One or two.

Your new intro music. It's pretty solid. Thank you. You know, we got some good fans that kind of help us along the way.

Yeah, I'm the one guy in Nicaragua that listens every week. Have you found out the guy from North Dakota? No. Not yet.

Did you lose the guy in Djibouti? We did get Djibouti, but what was in the country? He moves. He moves?

He snatched the Djibouti. He's in the Air Force. He's on the Key West submarine guy. Oh, that's Andrew McCreary, right?

Nope. No. I won't disclose his name. Can't say who he is.

We're days away from video. I'll keep listening every week. Thanks, bud. I appreciate that.

And I'll send you my critique notes every week. I see. A little fine-tuning. We could FaceTime him at the show meetings on Monday now.

He doesn't FaceTime, dudes. Oh, that's right. I won't FaceTime. Only on accident, I actually one time answered Mike's FaceTime.

Moment of weakness. " He's got this crazy thing, I don't know what the fuck he does. He's got a better relationship with Mike than me anyway. It's like a bromance kind of thing.

This is a conversation between Mike and I. I have a question. " Because that's a question. I have a question.

I have a question. Okay. " And I answer. Like, you know, one word.

Thank you. That's it. I have another question. One more question.

Don't be a time suck. Right. Exactly. That's a theme, right?

Yeah. Don't be a time suck. Plus, if you send it to me at 2 in the morning, I'm much more likely to be... Oh, yeah.

, I know that I gotta wait a while. m. m.? Yeah.

You gotta send... " He's talkin' about us, Mike. Right, exactly. Well, thanks for having me.

Yeah, man. It was great. Have to do it again. A four-parter next time.

This might be one of the three episodes I don't listen to. 'Cause you lived it, Dottie. You lived it. Alright, that's it.

Thanks. Bye. Hello. This is a prepaid collect call from The Correctional Institution.

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Show Notes

Alright folks this is it!  The third and final part of the Skip Martin Chronicles!  You have to hear how the story ends!

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